Assimilation with Thai Culture

[Fab5BKK]

Asking foreigners to assimilate within the thai society seems to be quite over the top...

 

The thai society doesn't assimilate its own citizens... 

 

One example:
Some thai citizens (with thai ID, thai passport, etc.) won't be able to become Officers in the thai Army...

Do you know why?

Because one of the parents is not thai...

[Sparktrader]

4 minutes ago, Fab5BKK said:

Asking foreigners to assimilate within the thai society seems to be quite over the top...

 

The thai society doesn't assimilate its own citizens... 

 

One example:
Some thai citizens (with thai ID, thai passport, etc.) won't be able to become Officers in the thai Army...

Do you know why?

Because one of the parents is not thai...

Lucky them. Get a better job.

[LaosLover]

54 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I do not like handshakes and never did. 
 

 

Agreed. Saint Obama gave us the fist bump and that's my new go-to.

[London Lowf]

18 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Posting experiences isnt trolling. You are the troll. 

I'll let the public judge and leave it at that.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, London Lowf said:

I see Westerners wai'ng bargirls and restaurant staff and it makes me cringe - do you bow and shake hands with bar staff at home.

 

The only person I've ever wai'd was an immigration official who jumped me to the head of the queue - respect and gratitude.

Hmm, would you shake hands with a policeman at home?

 

 

[London Lowf]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Hmm, would you shake hands with a policeman at home?

 

 

Yes - if he (or she) went out of their way to help me.

 

[Fab5BKK]

12 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Lucky them. Get a better job.

I'd tend to disagree, being an Officer in the Army could be a great career (jet fighter pilot, navy officer, even infantery officer)...

 

And don't forget, that as a Thai (with a foreign father) you have to do your 2-year military service BUT you can't get promoted !

 

It seems this is the case, as well, for doctors. A thai doctor, with foreign parent, isn't allowed to work for public hospitals...

 

It speaks volume about the will of assimilation on the thai side...

 

[Fab5BKK]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Hmm, would you shake hands with a policeman at home?

 

 

Why not? 

[Neeranam]

27 minutes ago, Fab5BKK said:

Asking foreigners to assimilate within the thai society seems to be quite over the top...

 

The thai society doesn't assimilate its own citizens... 

 

One example:
Some thai citizens (with thai ID, thai passport, etc.) won't be able to become Officers in the thai Army...

Do you know why?

Because one of the parents is not thai...

These discriminatory laws are old and gradually all changing. It used to be that they couldn't become an MP but that law was changed. 

[Fab5BKK]

41 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

These discriminatory laws are old and gradually all changing. It used to be that they couldn't become an MP but that law was changed. 

BUT these laws ARE still here !

 

It does show the will of non-assimilation from the thai point of view...

 

Xenophobia (or racism) at its best ! Even against their own citizens !

Edited November 13, 2022 by Fab5BKK

[Neeranam]

36 minutes ago, Fab5BKK said:

BUT these laws ARE still here !

 

It does show the will of non-assimilation from the thai point of view...

 

Xenophobia (or racism) at its best ! Even against their own citizens !

Bit over the top. 

How about 60 years ago in the USA? They didn't let black citizens vote or sit at the from of a bus. 

 

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Fab5BKK said:

I'd tend to disagree, being an Officer in the Army could be a great career (jet fighter pilot, navy officer, even infantery officer)...

 

And don't forget, that as a Thai (with a foreign father) you have to do your 2-year military service BUT you can't get promoted !

 

It seems this is the case, as well, for doctors. A thai doctor, with foreign parent, isn't allowed to work for public hospitals...

 

It speaks volume about the will of assimilation on the thai side...

 

Private doctors charge more.

[Fab5BKK]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Bit over the top. 

How about 60 years ago in the USA? They didn't let black citizens vote or sit at the from of a bus. 

 

Are we discussing HERE about the US or Thailand?

 

Therefore, I understand that you fully support these racist laws... "Well done you!"

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Fab5BKK said:

Are we discussing HERE about the US or Thailand?

 

Therefore, I understand that you fully support these racist laws... "Well done you!"

My point was all countries have had racial laws like this, Thailand is a few decades behind so called developed countries. My point, the USA, which has now turned woke, used to have MUCH worse laws than we have here in Thailand. Like I said previously, these laws are being gradually lifted.

Foreign men can now become Thai citizens easily, if married to Thai women, we were previously discriminated against. Thai women can now inherit land if they get another citizenship, etc. 

Instead of using excuses not to assimilate, it would be better to try to assimilate and lobby against these laws, like the Chinese did 50 years ago.

[Fab5BKK]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

My point was all countries have had racial laws like this, Thailand is a few decades behind so called developed countries. My point, the USA, which has now turned woke, used to have MUCH worse laws than we have here in Thailand. Like I said previously, these laws are being gradually lifted.

Foreign men can now become Thai citizens easily, if married to Thai women, we were previously discriminated against. Thai women can now inherit land if they get another citizenship, etc. 

Instead of using excuses not to assimilate, it would be better to try to assimilate and lobby against these laws, like the Chinese did 50 years ago.

OK, I understand you are supporting these racist laws. Thanks for the clarification.

 

BTW, why are you bringing the US into the discussion???

 

Assimilation is a 2-way process...

 

Thailand, clearly, doesn't want to assimilate all of its citizens...

 

Therefore, why foreigners should make the effort to assimilate?

[Non Immigrant]

13 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

Well, I have seen what you refer to as a beautiful Wai gesture.

Visiting my doctor. The phone rang.

The doctor's voice changed, his voice tone changed, his movements changed.

When his conversation was finished, I told him: "You must have a lot of respect for that person that you were talking to. He replied yes, she is an woman doctor, much older, that he holds in high esteem".

So yes, one can see it, as I saw it one time in my 20 years here. One time.

 

Now regarding a common mistake, regarding cultures, as if they were equivalent.

Well, no, it is not so.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Irak, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Haiti, Nigeria, Cameroun, to name a few.

Oh yes that they are very different....

 

I still see a wai as a way to diminish the psyche of children, preventing them to deal equally with adults. Keeping their minds in a state of juvenile.

When I would talk to my son when he was an infant, I would kneel down so we we could talk on equal terms. Not so here...

The pecking order on the social ladder matters a lot here; they don't just treat everyone with respect, which is a more common Western thing.

 

As farang we can expect to experience a whole range if respect and disrespect, simply cos of how we look.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:55 PM, Non Immigrant said:

I couldn't add another question, but for discussion, I'd ask: do you think we should assimilate?

 

And what does assimilation mean for you?

The nos have it by a large margin.

Assimilation is becoming like them. No thanks.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

My point was all countries have had racial laws like this, Thailand is a few decades behind so called developed countries. My point, the USA, which has now turned woke, used to have MUCH worse laws than we have here in Thailand. Like I said previously, these laws are being gradually lifted.

Foreign men can now become Thai citizens easily, if married to Thai women, we were previously discriminated against. Thai women can now inherit land if they get another citizenship, etc. 

Instead of using excuses not to assimilate, it would be better to try to assimilate and lobby against these laws, like the Chinese did 50 years ago.

Of what benefit to us is it to assimilate?

Farangs should not get involved in Thai politics.

 

If referring to foreigners not being able to buy land. I agree with that 100%.

[Sparktrader]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The nos have it by a large margin.

Assimilation is becoming like them. No thanks.

They sit in Pattaya bars

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Non Immigrant said:

The pecking order on the social ladder matters a lot here; they don't just treat everyone with respect, which is a more common Western thing.

 

As farang we can expect to experience a whole range if respect and disrespect, simply cos of how we look.

All age based

[garrya]

I have been struggling to keep missus, who is Thai by the way, in Thailand. She has been repeatedly asking me if we could <deleted> off.

Having lived in other countries, she feels more alien here than myself.

She's become more dissimilated over time.  I reckon that's what we call reverse culture shock.

 

What are people supposed to assimilate into? 

Going to temples to make merit, double parking, running red lights, promising things without meaning it, something we call Thai "education", gossiping, learning to cook Thai food, being late for work, not greeting neighbours, eating out with co-workers whom they aren't fond of, wearing matching outfits to go out, blocking junctions, saying "kha and khrap",  .... 

 

Thais aren't the same. There are many who ain't feel assimilated to their "own" culture. We foreigners tend to put all Thais in the same hat. 

For instance, having asked a few Thais I know whether they attended Loy Krathong at the local venues, I found that the vast majority didn't. And in fact, they would say that they were fed up with ........ 

What's your view on Thais who aren't that assimilated?

[Orinoco]

Who would want a downgrade. No thank you. 

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of what benefit to us is it to assimilate?

People might stop calling me 'mister'.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, garrya said:

What are people supposed to assimilate into? 

Going to temples to make merit, double parking, running red lights, promising things without meaning it, something we call Thai "education", gossiping, learning to cook Thai food, being late for work, not greeting neighbours, eating out with co-workers whom they aren't fond of, wearing matching outfits to go out, blocking junctions, saying "kha and khrap",  .... 

Going by my wife- lying a lot.

[NativeBob]

While the subject went to the 7th page and keeps running may I add this:

Young Thais (20-30 ish) who came from their intensive study* abroad (whose parents were able to afford to send them there) developed certain superiority against average thais, thai culture, thai traditions and way of life.

While we discuss how weird farang can look when he tries to assimilate into thainess or not, the really freaky ones are those uber-thais 

*intensive study - sarcastic reference incl. Evil Angel, Brazzers and other thai-friendly studios,

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

While the subject went to the 7th page and keeps running may I add this:

Young Thais (20-30 ish) who came from their intensive study* abroad (whose parents were able to afford to send them there) developed certain superiority against average thais, thai culture, thai traditions and way of life.

While we discuss how weird farang can look when he tries to assimilate into thainess or not, the really freaky ones are those uber-thais 

*intensive study - sarcastic reference incl. Evil Angel, Brazzers and other thai-friendly studios,

While ignoring the ‘possible’ venom in your post there is an element of truth... 

... not to the ‘developed superiority’ but in general to the shift in underlying mental process in those Thai's who have lived overseas.

 

While living in Thailand and other countries outside of our home nation allow (most of) us to see the world through an alternative lens, the same can be said of Thai’s...  While we may return to our home countries having learned to ‘let things go’... Thai’s may well return to Thailand and look at things through a more critical eye. 

 

 

Similar can also be said of ‘mixed marriage’...  I have learned follow my Wife’s lead and not take issues out of my control too seriously... Meanwhile, my Wife has also learned not to accept some of the ‘silly stuff’ which unfolds around us... Perhaps a degree of Westernisation has slipped into the underlying attitudes of my Wife, whereas an element of ‘extra tolerance’ has slipped into my own underlying attitude.

 

I suspect thats both partial de-assimilation and partial assimilation for both my Wife and I. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:36 AM, Boomer6969 said:

So why are you on this forum? There are plenty for Thais where you won't have to deal with Farangs.

He can't look down on them for not speaking Thai.

[BangkokReady]

On 11/13/2022 at 12:02 PM, Neeranam said:

Can I answer the poll, I'm not a foreigner, but used to be?

It's OK.  We all know you're a foreigner with Thai citizenship.  Answer away.

[BangkokReady]

23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Society considers them Thai, as they have Thai blood.

Thai, but still half Thai.  Hence "half blood".

[BangkokReady]

20 hours ago, Fab5BKK said:

BTW, why are you bringing the US into the discussion???

"Whataboutism".  Bringing up how the US used to be really doesn't mean much.  You say Thailand has racist laws, he claims the US used to be the same.  Does that make the racist laws in Thailand OK?  No.  It's just a deflection.  You say something negative about Thailand, he says something negative about another country to try and deflect.

 

Whataboutism doesn't explain anything or properly challenge, it's simply about saying "You said something bad about Thailand, but here's something bad about country X, so that makes Thailand less bad."