Thailand going cashless. Are you for or against it?

[Captain Monday]

Cash should be banned

[cmsally]

I voted "against".

1. Cash means we have a physical representation of our money.  Without electricity or a network we would be unable to use any kind of virtual currency. Let's face it on the time spectrum we haven't had electricity or the internet for that long. So we could be left without the means to make transactions; in that situation I imagine people would go back to barter. 

2. Digital currency is basically a virtual representation of a physical object. If you get rid of the physical object which it represents then it can no longer be a representation of a real object/concept. It then becomes a totally imaginary concept.

3. CBDC's are issued by federal/central banks so it would be easy to subject it to government control. They are essentially programmable which cash is not. This could lead to issues such as geofencing, expiry dates, limitations of use etc.

4. The push for CBDC's comes from the Bank of International Settlements which have a less than stellar reputation - eg. their facilitation of the transfer of Czech gold to German accounts just before the Second World War.

 

I have nothing against the use of technology but we are basically being conditioned to accept convenience at the expense of privacy and reliability.

 

PS How do you have a run on the banks if there is no cash. Just think about the situation in Lebanon where people held up the bank to get their own money. How would that work if there is no cash?

[lopburi3]

15 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Cash should be banned

Mondays should be removed from the calendar.

[bob smith]

3 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

My father had a nasty habit of keeping an eye on the neighborhood. When people went out he would go peek in their windows or let himself in their houses as he knew where the spare keys were. He wasn't a thief, but would snoop through all rooms, closets and drawers, read mail, look at documents and tax returns, open the fridge, etc.. We could never get him to stop or even take it serious. His excuse was always the same, "It's OK. If they have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a problem."

This, my friend, is brilliant. Well done ????

[bob smith]

18 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Cash should be banned

Elaborate? 

[cjinchiangrai]

It was pretty much cashless in China and it worked great. The problem in Thailand is that foreigners cannot use online payments like LinePay. I have been trying to set up a wallet for years. Fix that and I will not have a problem with it.

[dj230]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Take a walk through the day markets of Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, none of the market stalls have QR codes. Half the time it's foodstuffs sitting on a tarpaulin on the ground.

never been to chiang mai, just central bangkok area and the university town here, probably less technologically advanced in other provinces

[Captain Monday]

23 minutes ago, bob smith said:

Elaborate? 

Everything I need to participate in the economy is on my mobile, the stored vallee card even when battery is a dead. Ride a train bus, shop at a store. Nothing to forget or lose. Smart lock on house, no keys I guess all you need is an Apple Watch really. Losing a wallet can be a nightmare.  Just buy a new mobile. Checkout is a breeze when not waiting behind a geezer pfaffing about with dirty notes and small coins.

 

I would like to make it a little harder on the crims. Every transaction should be traceable to a registered person, and the required taxes paid. All income some legally accounted for, or confiscated by the government

 

I don't believe people who commit crimes deserve privacy to cover their ill gotten gains or misdeeds.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Thailand is still in the infancy of cashless society but for anyone to claim it won't happen is absurd.

The UK is much further into cashless than Thailand but they have opted for contactless rather than QR codes. You go in a bar now and there is more cards being presented to the till than pound notes.

Even worse on buses. When I was there recently I had to go to the train station fairly early so had to pay as it was to before my OAP bus pass could be used. I gave the driver a fiver and he said he didn't have any change and would have to give me a credit note. I said what good was that when I had a bus pass, he laughed and told me to sit down. I couldn't use my debit card as it was new and I hadn't activated it for contactless.

TBH I am 78 and I have no desire to leave Thailand, so what is happening in the UK is only of passing interest to me.

 

Unless I win the Thai lottery in big numbers, I am unlikely to leave Thailand any more, and I suspect that cash will still work for the rest of my lifetime.

[riclag]

Sure as long as all merchants except it and I don’t have to pay extra such as a fee to use it such as some charge for using a credit card

[traveller101]

1 hour ago, Captain Monday said:

Everything I need to participate in the economy is on my mobile, the stored vallee card even when battery is a dead. Ride a train bus, shop at a store. Nothing to forget or lose. Smart lock on house, no keys I guess all you need is an Apple Watch really. Losing a wallet can be a nightmare.  Just buy a new mobile. Checkout is a breeze when not waiting behind a geezer pfaffing about with dirty notes and small coins.

 

I would like to make it a little harder on the crims. Every transaction should be traceable to a registered person, and the required taxes paid. All income some legally accounted for, or confiscated by the government

 

I don't believe people who commit crimes deserve privacy to cover their ill gotten gains or misdeeds.

I habe no doubts that You have no problem operating in cashless environment.

But a cashless society consists of people from all walks of life incl. the disadvantaged, the poor, the illiterate and uneducated - particularly in developing nations, which includes Thailand. They do not have the means as you nonchalantly mentioned to purchase smart locks, Apple Watches or just another Smartphone.

No doubt You breeze through the Checkout - as long as there are no glitches in the stores systems, no short-term loss of connections due to all sort of reasons. But I was left waiting countless times behind a poor soul whose cards were rejected or their phone ran out of battery.

So please broaden your horizon and consider all parts of a society affected by going "cashless".

[300sd]

16 hours ago, runamok27 said:

That's all a part of incrementalism, they'll get to it later.

 

It's like someone mentioned CCTV. At first it was well, we'll only be putting them in very specific places for your safety. Then, well, we should put them here too now, for your safety. Then, well, we need them here too, for your safety and then before you know it, they are everywhere. Things won't change overnight, cashless payments is only the first and most important step.

Perfect. Himmler put it a different way:

They know you NEVER reveal the entire plan, for people will revolt. Lead them down the path ever so gradually, and you will transform the nation into whatever you desire.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, 300sd said:

Perfect. Himmler put it a different way:

They know you NEVER reveal the entire plan, for people will revolt. Lead them down the path ever so gradually, and you will transform the nation into whatever you desire.

 

How come you are familiar with Nazi leaders  words and why do you quote Nazis .

   Do you think that all World Governments have similar intentions to the Nazis ?

[Lucky Bones]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Mondays should be removed from the calendar.

I'm "retired". Every day is a Friday, or a Monday, or some other day.

Doesn't really matter when one suffers from Alzheimer's....I think?

As long as I have some cash for the local Mom & Pop shops beer, all is good.

Bummer though when I can't recall where my house is.????????

[bob smith]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Everything I need to participate in the economy is on my mobile, the stored vallee card even when battery is a dead. Ride a train bus, shop at a store. Nothing to forget or lose. Smart lock on house, no keys I guess all you need is an Apple Watch really. Losing a wallet can be a nightmare.  Just buy a new mobile. Checkout is a breeze when not waiting behind a geezer pfaffing about with dirty notes and small coins.

 

I would like to make it a little harder on the crims. Every transaction should be traceable to a registered person, and the required taxes paid. All income some legally accounted for, or confiscated by the government

 

I don't believe people who commit crimes deserve privacy to cover their ill gotten gains or misdeeds.

Jaysus, i wish i’d never asked now.

[cmsally]

12 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Perfect. Himmler put it a different way:

They know you NEVER reveal the entire plan, for people will revolt. Lead them down the path ever so gradually, and you will transform the nation into whatever you desire.

 

These days it has gone up a notch and moved on to Behavioural Insights and Nudge Techniques. This type of state behaviour is in my opinion unethical; governments should be working on behalf of the people so nudging their behaviour does not exactly fit the job description.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Everything I need to participate in the economy is on my mobile, the stored vallee card even when battery is a dead. Ride a train bus, shop at a store. Nothing to forget or lose. Smart lock on house, no keys I guess all you need is an Apple Watch really. Losing a wallet can be a nightmare.  Just buy a new mobile. Checkout is a breeze when not waiting behind a geezer pfaffing about with dirty notes and small coins.

 

I would like to make it a little harder on the crims. Every transaction should be traceable to a registered person, and the required taxes paid. All income some legally accounted for, or confiscated by the government

 

I don't believe people who commit crimes deserve privacy to cover their ill gotten gains or misdeeds.

Checkout is a breeze when I am not waiting behind some person whose memory bank is 0.1% of what their smartphone has.

 

IMO most successful criminals have already figured out how to get around the roadblocks in the digital world.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

My father had a nasty habit of keeping an eye on the neighborhood. When people went out he would go peek in their windows or let himself in their houses as he knew where the spare keys were. He wasn't a thief, but would snoop through all rooms, closets and drawers, read mail, look at documents and tax returns, open the fridge, etc.. We could never get him to stop or even take it serious. His excuse was always the same, "It's OK. If they have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a problem."

Your Father was trespassing, that is against the law , did your neighbours report him to the police ?

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, dj230 said:

never been to chiang mai, just central bangkok area and the university town here, probably less technologically advanced in other provinces

Central Bangkok is about as representative of Thailand as a whole, as Vaucluse is of representing Australia.

[Captain Monday]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Checkout is a breeze when I am not waiting behind some person whose memory bank is 0.1% of what their smartphone has.

 

IMO most successful criminals have already figured out how to get around the roadblocks in the digital world.

 

 

I don't have a criminal mind but I know they would  get around it somehow

Used to have a great cash card at 7-11, banned because no Thai ID and "money laundering"

 

PayPal is so safe now it is impossible to use

[Captain Monday]

40 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

I habe no doubts that You have no problem operating in cashless environment.

But a cashless society consists of people from all walks of life incl. the disadvantaged, the poor, the illiterate and uneducated - particularly in developing nations, which includes Thailand. They do not have the means as you nonchalantly mentioned to purchase smart locks, Apple Watches or just another Smartphone.

No doubt You breeze through the Checkout - as long as there are no glitches in the stores systems, no short-term loss of connections due to all sort of reasons. But I was left waiting countless times behind a poor soul whose cards were rejected or their phone ran out of battery.

So please broaden your horizon and consider all parts of a society affected by going "cashless".

I know all do not have smartphones. Every Thai in theory has an ID number. All these aged and impoverished people, and the disabled need is a fingerprints or facial image, even a voice print.  Maybe a paper QR code. The tech is there just time to roll it out and avoid crime fraud waste and abuse.

[Lucky Bones]

12 hours ago, dj230 said:

No one uses cash anymore, at least not the younger generation. Bank transfers is what everyone uses in Thailand. You just scan a QR code and the amount and hit send. 
 

 

Ah. Another poster who speaks on behalf of the majority (no-one, at least not and everyone) - all in 2 sentences.

Get yourself off to some local villages, especially at any of the markets and you will see the filthy lucre in abundance.

Good luck with your bank transfer there.????????

[cmsally]

10 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I know all do not have smartphones. Every Thai in theory has an ID number. All these aged and impoverished people, and the disabled need is a fingerprints or facial image, even a voice print.  Maybe a paper QR code. The tech is there just time to roll it out and avoid crime fraud waste and abuse.

Safe as houses, what could possibly go wrong!

"In China, for example, Huawei tested a face-scanning system that can trigger an “Uighur alarm,” which detects members of the Uighurs, the oppressed minority group. (Chinese authorities have arbitrarily detained as many as one million Uighurs and other minorities in as many as 400 facilities in Xinjiang, in the largest internment of an ethno-religious minority since WWII.) This system would allow the Chinese government to control and prosecute the Uighurs if they so wished."

 

 

"In 2019, at an annual Black Hat hacker convention, hackers breached Apple’s iPhone FaceID authentication system in just two minutes.

In February 2020, Clearview AI — a company that scrapes the internet and syphons billions of online photos for facial-recognition technology use — had its entire client list stolen. This hack has most likely played a crucial role in further hacking attempts at the company and its clients, most of which being law enforcement agencies and banks.

In 2020, a McAfee cybersecurity team demonstrated a fault in facial-recognition systems. They used a specially manipulated photo to trick a system similar to one used at airports for passport identification via facial recognition into accepting that the individual on the passport was the same as the one recorded by the system camera. This would enable a person on a no-fly list, for example, to board the airplane.

In March 2021, a criminal group used photos bought from the online black market to dupe a government-run Chinese site, stealing $76.2 million in the process."

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facial-recognition-technology-is-one-of-the-biggest-threats-to-our-privacy-11640623526

[Captain Monday]

3 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Safe as houses, what could possibly go wrong!

"In China, for example, Huawei tested a face-scanning system that can trigger an “Uighur alarm,” which detects members of the Uighurs, the oppressed minority group. (Chinese authorities have arbitrarily detained as many as one million Uighurs and other minorities in as many as 400 facilities in Xinjiang, in the largest internment of an ethno-religious minority since WWII.) This system would allow the Chinese government to control and prosecute the Uighurs if they so wished."

 

 

"In 2019, at an annual Black Hat hacker convention, hackers breached Apple’s iPhone FaceID authentication system in just two minutes.

In February 2020, Clearview AI — a company that scrapes the internet and syphons billions of online photos for facial-recognition technology use — had its entire client list stolen. This hack has most likely played a crucial role in further hacking attempts at the company and its clients, most of which being law enforcement agencies and banks.

In 2020, a McAfee cybersecurity team demonstrated a fault in facial-recognition systems. They used a specially manipulated photo to trick a system similar to one used at airports for passport identification via facial recognition into accepting that the individual on the passport was the same as the one recorded by the system camera. This would enable a person on a no-fly list, for example, to board the airplane.

In March 2021, a criminal group used photos bought from the online black market to dupe a government-run Chinese site, stealing $76.2 million in the process."

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/facial-recognition-technology-is-one-of-the-biggest-threats-to-our-privacy-11640623526

Paranoia. 

[Lucky Bones]

17 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I know all do not have smartphones. Every Thai in theory has an ID number. All these aged and impoverished people, and the disabled need is a fingerprints or facial image, even a voice print.  Maybe a paper QR code. The tech is there just time to roll it out and avoid crime fraud waste and abuse.

Yup, a fingerprint, facial image or a voice print will do the aged, impoverished or diabled persons perfectly, never mind the fact they may not be able to get out of bed.

You appear to be experiencing delusional thought processes about the use of technology.????????

[Mac Mickmanus]

22 minutes ago, Lucky Bones said:

Ah. Another poster who speaks on behalf of the majority (no-one, at least not and everyone) - all in 2 sentences.

Get yourself off to some local villages, especially at any of the markets and you will see the filthy lucre in abundance.

Good luck with your bank transfer there.????????

I do miss those grubby 20 Baht notes .

If you handle those in a daily basis , you will probably now be immune to most of the Worlds infectious diseases 

[dj230]

40 minutes ago, Lucky Bones said:

Ah. Another poster who speaks on behalf of the majority (no-one, at least not and everyone) - all in 2 sentences.

Get yourself off to some local villages, especially at any of the markets and you will see the filthy lucre in abundance.

Good luck with your bank transfer there.????????

Figurative speech, not literal. 

[Lucky Bones]

3 minutes ago, dj230 said:

Figurative speech, not literal. 

Cool 

[Maybole]

I shop a lot at local fresh markets. I  cannot imagine the vendors accepting any thing other than cash.

Also, I have been often been frustrated in supermarkets when the customer ahead of me tries to pay by using some application on a"smart" phone and repeatedly cannot get it to work, while the neighbouring queue uses cash and clears about 3 customers while I wait.

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, Maybole said:

I shop a lot at local fresh markets. I  cannot imagine the vendors accepting any thing other than cash.

Also, I have been often been frustrated in supermarkets when the customer ahead of me tries to pay by using some application on a"smart" phone and repeatedly cannot get it to work, while the neighbouring queue uses cash and clears about 3 customers while I wait.

The phones are smart, it's the customer that is dumb.