Bank and passport check

[nigelforbes]

11 minutes ago, Karma80 said:

KYC - Know Your Customer rules are tightening in every financial institution. In Thailand there has likely been a rise in foreigner account opening with the large influx of Russians on tourist type visas, Chinese educational dodgy visas and so on. I daresay some banks have directed staff to check passports and visas for all in branch transactions, but this is Thailand and we know nothing is uniform, or even the same the next day.

These are not as a result of KYC, this is purely an Immi. issue. There's plenty of opportunity to confirm KYC when the account is opened, the visa checks are ongoing for one purpose only, to make sure the customer is in Thailand legally on a valid unexpired visa.

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

These are not as a result of KYC, this is purely an Immi. issue. There's plenty of opportunity to confirm KYC when the account is opened, the visa checks are ongoing for one purpose only, to make sure the customer is in Thailand legally on a valid unexpired visa.

Nothing to do with Immigration, there is no connectivity between Immigration and the banks.

 

Immigration may have played a part in 'recommending' that aliens need a long-term visa, but it is a commercial decision for the Bank of Thailand who will be the body directing individual banks.

[nigelforbes]

31 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Nothing to do with Immigration, there is no connectivity between Immigration and the banks.

 

Immigration may have played a part in 'recommending' that aliens need a long-term visa, but it is a commercial decision for the Bank of Thailand who will be the body directing individual banks.

I wrote to my banks CEO on this point and asked him, does your bank have a policy of inspecting all foreign passports, to ensure the account holder has a current visa because this is what your branch staff have told me. He didn't reply but the letter was acknowledged, this in itself was unusual because he did respond on the two previous times I wrote to the bank (in 10 years). The branch manager did call me however and apologized that I had not received good service from her staff so I asked her. She explained that common practice is that all visa's are checked. I no longer use that bank account although it remains open, subsequently I opened an account with another bank and was told in very plain and straight forward English that I would need to produce my passport for every transaction, even updates to a bank book, and that my visa would be checked every time. The bank even has several PC printed signs displayed in front of each teller station saying foreigners require their passport for every  transaction.

Edited December 17, 2022 by nigelforbes
wording accuracy clarity

[4MyEgo]

On 12/12/2022 at 4:47 PM, Mino said:

The point is that when I handle the passport, he asked to show him where was the visa stamp.

That never happened before. In the past just a copy of my data.

Let's just say that you got someone doing their job properly, as rare as it maybe in Thailand.

 

Reminds me of a time when I caught a domestic flight at an airport here in Thailand, I showed my Thai pink ID when checking in, no one asked to see my passport, however upon my return flight from Phuket my Pink ID was declined, passport please sir, oh, why is that, airline policy sir, they accepted my Thai pink ID on the way here, same airline, sorry sir, policy is passport must be sighted, um, ok, no problem, gave passport, and caught my flight, later I checked the airlines policy and she was correct, passports must be sighted when foreigners are checking in and boarding, Thai's can show their ID's, so I'm not special after all LOL.

 

Under the new Money Laundering Act, all foreign money transferees must be identified, and if not a resident of the country, a valid visa must be sited before any money transfers can be made, heavy fines apply, so I am sure staff are constantly reminded about this as they could be dismissed if found out they f'd up and it cost the bank/company a fine for not complying, same applies with hotels, even when my wife books the room, I must show my passport, if I book the room they will take a copy of my passport and look for a any visa's/extensions, that has nothing to do with money laundering, same as the airline, but let's just say they like to know our whereabouts.

 

Don't worry, when digital currency comes along, we won't have to worry about money laundering, it will be game over for all of us. 

 

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

the visa checks are ongoing for one purpose only, to make sure the customer is in Thailand legally on a valid unexpired visa.

Well, actually, they're checking my "permission of stay" for expiration, not my "visa," which did expire 10 years ago. But, most of us know what you mean (but some don't, as this continues to be a point of confusion).

 

Anyway, yeah -- the recent crack down on overstayers has seemingly lead to the gov't asking banks, when they check passports, to take a glance at the permission of stay stamp. Not a law, so some banks/branches may not be taking this request too seriously.

 

And what happens when an overstayer shows up at the bank counter? Are they installing trap doors? No, but your name will probably be forwarded to Imm. Actually, this policy may be more of a deterrence, making it more difficult for overstayers to do business -- and thus overstay -- in Thailand. Let's just hope they restrict this policy to situations where passports are normally asked for -- as I'd hate to have to carry my passport to the supermarket.

 

No big deal -- for those with valid permissions of stay.

[VBF]

This thread interests me because when I opened my account more than a decade ago restrictions were far fewer. Now, when i travel to Thailand, i do so on a Tourist Visa (I tend to do 60 day trips once or twice a year)  So, next time I go to Thailand, I shall have to go into into SCB as I have a new passport and I need to update the record..

I'm wondering if, being on a Tourist Visa will cause me any problems. Anyone??

[nigelforbes]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Well, actually, they're checking my "permission of stay" for expiration, not my "visa," which did expire 10 years ago. But, most of us know what you mean (but some don't, as this continues to be a point of confusion).

 

Anyway, yeah -- the recent crack down on overstayers has seemingly lead to the gov't asking banks, when they check passports, to take a glance at the permission of stay stamp. Not a law, so some banks/branches may not be taking this request too seriously.

 

And what happens when an overstayer shows up at the bank counter? Are they installing trap doors? No, but your name will probably be forwarded to Imm. Actually, this policy may be more of a deterrence, making it more difficult for overstayers to do business -- and thus overstay -- in Thailand. Let's just hope they restrict this policy to situations where passports are normally asked for -- as I'd hate to have to carry my passport to the supermarket.

 

No big deal -- for those with valid permissions of stay.

What happens if the visa is not valid? I was told by branch staff that they would not be able to serve me. Of course, that doesn't prevent ATM use or online but I don't know about closing the account..

[JimGant]

36 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

What happens if the visa is not valid? I was told by branch staff that they would not be able to serve me.

That's nuts. Many of us reading this came into the country years ago on 90-day Non Imm O visas, or 365 day Non Imm O-A visas. Those visas allowed us to enter Thailand, as long as we did that before the "until" date. What we got was a "permission of stay" stamp, which would expire after 90 days, or 365 days, depending on whether "O" or "O-A" type.

 

If we wanted to stay after the expiration date of the permission of stay stamp, we'd go to Imm and apply for an extension stamp of that permission stamp. Ad infinitum, year after year, a daisy chain of extension of stays. Meanwhile, the original visa had long ago expired. So how could anyone realistically ask if your visa is still valid?

 

Anyway, shorthand language for this daisy chain was "visa extension." Even the embassies use this term. But it's not literally a visa extension, because all visas have finite expiration dates, and CANNOT be extended. But, in essence, it IS an extension of the original visa, or at least an extension of the original visa's initial permission of stay.

 

Bottom line: If you have an extension of stay that hasn't expired, the visa this extension emanates from is still "alive," as long as that daisy chain of extensions is not broken by exceeding expiration dates before renewal.

 

Back to the beginning -- bank should only be interested in your current extension of stay, ie, your so-called "visa extension." If they really want to see that long-ago expired visa in that expired passport in your closet -- they need professional help.

[Orinoco]

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

That's nuts. Many of us reading this came into the country years ago on 90-day Non Imm O visas, or 365 day Non Imm O-A visas. Those visas allowed us to enter Thailand, as long as we did that before the "until" date. What we got was a "permission of stay" stamp, which would expire after 90 days, or 365 days, depending on whether "O" or "O-A" type.

 

If we wanted to stay after the expiration date of the permission of stay stamp, we'd go to Imm and apply for an extension stamp of that permission stamp. Ad infinitum, year after year, a daisy chain of extension of stays. Meanwhile, the original visa had long ago expired. So how could anyone realistically ask if your visa is still valid?

 

Anyway, shorthand language for this daisy chain was "visa extension." Even the embassies use this term. But it's not literally a visa extension, because all visas have finite expiration dates, and CANNOT be extended. But, in essence, it IS an extension of the original visa, or at least an extension of the original visa's initial permission of stay.

 

Bottom line: If you have an extension of stay that hasn't expired, the visa this extension emanates from is still "alive," as long as that daisy chain of extensions is not broken by exceeding expiration dates before renewal.

 

Back to the beginning -- bank should only be interested in your current extension of stay, ie, your so-called "visa extension." If they really want to see that long-ago expired visa in that expired passport in your closet -- they need professional help.

So what would you do.

Tell them to go F,,,,,,, them selves,

That will show them whos boss . 

 

 

[soi3eddie]

On 12/12/2022 at 3:39 AM, fulhamster said:

They are checking that you are not on overstay. Hotels do this as well.

They must get some kind of reward for anyone they report to Immigration

I too suspect they must get some kind of bounty payment for finding an overstayer. I know this happens with hotels for debt collectors so why not immigration?

 

 

[nigelforbes]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

That's nuts. Many of us reading this came into the country years ago on 90-day Non Imm O visas, or 365 day Non Imm O-A visas. Those visas allowed us to enter Thailand, as long as we did that before the "until" date. What we got was a "permission of stay" stamp, which would expire after 90 days, or 365 days, depending on whether "O" or "O-A" type.

 

If we wanted to stay after the expiration date of the permission of stay stamp, we'd go to Imm and apply for an extension stamp of that permission stamp. Ad infinitum, year after year, a daisy chain of extension of stays. Meanwhile, the original visa had long ago expired. So how could anyone realistically ask if your visa is still valid?

 

Anyway, shorthand language for this daisy chain was "visa extension." Even the embassies use this term. But it's not literally a visa extension, because all visas have finite expiration dates, and CANNOT be extended. But, in essence, it IS an extension of the original visa, or at least an extension of the original visa's initial permission of stay.

 

Bottom line: If you have an extension of stay that hasn't expired, the visa this extension emanates from is still "alive," as long as that daisy chain of extensions is not broken by exceeding expiration dates before renewal.

 

Back to the beginning -- bank should only be interested in your current extension of stay, ie, your so-called "visa extension." If they really want to see that long-ago expired visa in that expired passport in your closet -- they need professional help.

Let's not have the debate about terminology, please. Shorthand for visa extension or extension of permission to stay, is visa. Of course for some people it will indeed be visa and that is the word that will have been used to describe all of this to branch staff. But for old timers it will be extension of permission to stay which we will hereinafter call plain old visa. 

[nigelforbes]

10 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

I too suspect they must get some kind of bounty payment for finding an overstayer. I know this happens with hotels for debt collectors so why not immigration?

 

 

More likely there will be a penalty if it is found that the bank provided banking services to anyone who didn't have the right stamps in their passport (you see how I cunningly avoided having to use the V word or the EOPTS words).  :))

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

Let's not have the debate about terminology, please. Shorthand for visa extension or extension of permission to stay, is visa. Of course for some people it will indeed be visa and that is the word that will have been used to describe all of this to branch staff. But for old timers it will be extension of permission to stay which we will hereinafter call plain old visa. 

not by me...

 

 

There is more confusion on these pages from incorrect use of the terminology.

 

A VISA is a visa, an extension of stay is just that. 

 

The two are completely different.

 

Whether a bank deems a Non-Imm 'O' visa as sufficient for account opened is another issue. An extension of stay is acceptable.

[nigelforbes]

5 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

not by me...

 

 

There is more confusion on these pages from incorrect use of the terminology.

 

A VISA is a visa, an extension of stay is just that. 

 

The two are completely different.

 

Whether a bank deems a Non-Imm 'O' visa as sufficient for account opened is another issue. An extension of stay is acceptable.

And do you really suppose that all bank branch staff understand the nomenclature and the difference between the two things! For goodness sake, if there's confusion on these pages, what do you think the story is in the branches with 20 something year old tellers who barely speak or read English..

[hotandsticky]

59 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

And do you really suppose that all bank branch staff understand the nomenclature and the difference between the two things! For goodness sake, if there's confusion on these pages, what do you think the story is in the branches with 20 something year old tellers who barely speak or read English..

 

No, they most certainly don't!  ????

 

They (and Immigration officers at Swampy) will say "Do you have visa?".

 

If I say "no, I have an extension of permission to stay based on retirement (off a Non-Immigrant 'O' visa granted in 2009)" I will get blanks looks.

 

That is not the point - that is Thai/Farang communication; this forum is an English language forum frequented mainly by Farangs, IMO it is important to distinguish between between the two - certainly as far as advice is concerned. 

[persimmon]

I try to avoid handing over my p/p to anyone apart from Immigration , so I only give hotels a photo of the main page . Seems to work OK . If they demand to see the original , I`d just go somewhere else . I recently had to get a new ATM card ( old one date expired ) , so I gave them my old expired p/p , which they accepted ( they could not have checked my status , cos it was 6 yrs out of date ).

[007 RED]

This morning I visited the BKK bank in my local mall in order to obtain a passbook.  I have the account at this branch and been a regular customer for the past 10 years.

 

On being called to the counter I handed my old passbook and passport to the staff member and asked her if she would provide me with new passbook.  The staff member took my passport away to the photocopier and then disappeared into a backroom. She returned after about 5 minutes with 3 photocopy pages which she asked me to sign.  One was my old savings book data page, another was my passport data page and the third was the page from my passport containing my latest permission to stay stamp (Non-O based on retirement) with the date of its expiration circled in red.

 

I asked the staff member why she need a copy of my Immigration status, as it has never been required before, and why has the expiration date been circled.  She looked at me as though I was asking the impossible and promptly called over the manager.

 

The branch manager, who in the past if not busy would normally come and say hello when I go to the branch explained that it is a result of a directive from head office in BKK.  According to her (the manager), it is to do with new anti money laundering procedures, as directed by the BoT.

 

I asked her what would they do if my permission to stay had expired, would they contact Immigration?  She advised that according to the recent directive, they (the bank) would not be able to process my request as I am well be classified as an illegal.  She said that they do not contact Immigration but the details of the failed transaction have to be sent to head office.  She said she was not aware if they (head office) subsequently notify immigration.

 

I then asked her if giving my data to a third party, such as Immigration, was not in breach of the new Personal Data Protection Regulations.  She was obviously on the 'ball' when she replied that there is provision within the new Personal Data Protection Regulation which allows the bank to 'share' my personal data for the prevention of a crime e.g. being illegal in the country. 

 

Nice smiles all round and a few minutes later my new passbook, old passbook and passport were handed over.

 

PS.... I signed the photocopy of my original savings book data page and my passport data page, but I didn't sign the page which had my permission to stay on it.  No comment was made about the missing signature.

[nigelforbes]

Now that more posters are running into the same issue, I'm beginning to feel vindicated for posting news about this several months ago and being told it wasn't happening. Heads up, it's a new world as a result of AMLO regs.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, 007 RED said:

but I didn't sign the page which had my permission to stay on it.

Why not? Sounds straightforward to me. Why so sensitive about procedures to identify overstayers?

[007 RED]

Further to my recent post (2 above) concerning my visit to my local BKK bank branch to obtain a new passbook, and inquiring as to why they now seem to need a copy of my permission to stay status, today I had occasion to visit their foriegn currency transaction section at their head office (Silom Rd - BKK) in order to transfer GBP to THB.

 

In the past they have always required my passport and taken a copy of the biographical (photo) page which they ask me to sign.  Today the staff member returned from the photocopier with a single A4 sheet containing both my passport biographical data page and the page containing my latest permission to stay based upon retirement stamp (the paper was in landscape format).

 

I asked the staff member why she had taken a copy of my permission to stay page as in the past it has only been the biographical data page.  She reiterated, almost word-for-word what the manager of my local BKK bank had said, namely that it is now policy following a directive from the Bank of Thailand.

 

I then asked her, what would happen if the date of my permission to stay had expired.  She replied that she would not be able to process my request to transfer funds from my foreign currency account to my savings account.  She also stated that she would have to report the failed transaction to another department, but would not be drawn when I asked her which department that might be.  This again was basically the same response as given by my local BKK bank branch.

 

So it seems that this is now the norm.  Expired permission to stay date = no transaction.

 

It will be interesting to know what happens to those forum members who have indicated in the past that when they have an over-the-counter transaction with their bank they use their pink card or Thai driving. licence.

Edited December 29, 2022 by 007 RED
Typo

[soi3eddie]

4 hours ago, 007 RED said:

It will be interesting to know what happens to those forum members who have indicated in the past that when they have an over-the-counter transaction with their bank they use their pink card or Thai driving. licence.

Almost certainly will be blocked from conducting the transaction. Gave my Thai pink card at a Bangkok exchange earlier this year and they wanted passport instead.

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Almost certainly will be blocked from conducting the transaction. Gave my Thai pink card at a Bangkok exchange earlier this year and they wanted passport instead.

 

Interesting... was your account opened with reference to your Pink ID card as ID or your passport ?

 

 

[soi3eddie]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Interesting... was your account opened with reference to your Pink ID card as ID or your passport ?

 

 

No this was at one of the exchange counters in the basement of Suvarnabhumi airport. Not a bank. I was able to use pink card at SuperRich near centralworld without problem earlier this month though.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by soi3eddie

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

No this was at one of the exchange counters in the basement of Suvarnabhumi airport. Not a bank. I was able to use pink card at SuperRich near centralworld without problem earlier this month though.

Ah ok...  I guess this just comes down to the individual working there then....