More refreshing (and surprising) honesty from mainstream media.

[rattlesnake]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Since when are you in a position to ask me further questions when you've not provided evidence of your initial claims? This is not a schoolyard rant here. If you want to make specific claims they need to be backed up with credible sources.  Most medications and most vaccines have adverse reactions in rare cases, its the risk/benefit ratio that counts. 

 

The benefits for covid vaccines far outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people. That is my claim and those links have been provided. You don't believe me. You claim they are not safe.

 

As per the forum rules in this section any claims you make:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

I'll wait with baited breath............

You know very well the links I would provide are not approved by forum rules, we have debated this before and my time is too precious to repeat the same things over and over again.

 

I attempted to circumvent the rules by stating my opinion (which presumably is not an alleged factual claim and not subject to the approved link rule).

 

Thanks for your answers to the questions, duly noted.

[owl sees all]

On 12/21/2022 at 2:04 PM, 248900_1469958220 said:

I am noticing more and more of this lately....I wonder who is going to get thrown under the bus? There has been a SICKENING level of censorship revolving around the Covid vaccines. Here again is an article from MAINSTREAM MEDIA. I ask it NOT be taken down.  Here is a credible source admitting Australian doctors have been told to shut up about vaccine injuries......this is not an isolated incident, we ALL know this, though some really dont like to admit it. 

 

There still is. And always has been in my lifetime.

 

I don't see that things have changed much. Just a  little ground has shifted.

[Bkk Brian]

52 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

You know very well the links I would provide are not approved by forum rules, we have debated this before and my time is too precious to repeat the same things over and over again.

 

I attempted to circumvent the rules by stating my opinion (which presumably is not an alleged factual claim and not subject to the approved link rule).

 

Thanks for your answers to the questions, duly noted.

The psychological foundation of a conspiracy theory is by its very nature based on belief/opinions, as they have no credible facts to back them up. There is no way to scrutinize evidence by experts and no way to make a fact based judgement.

 

From the covid forum rules:

"A forum dedicated to information and discussion of COVID-19 topics. This forum is not for conspiracy theories or any form of political discussion."

 

Why do people believe COVID-19 conspiracy theories?

https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/why-do-people-believe-covid-19-conspiracy-theories/

[owl sees all]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The psychological foundation of a conspiracy theory is by its very nature based on belief/opinions, as they have no credible facts to back them up. There is no way to scrutinize evidence by experts and no way to make a fact based judgement.

AFAIK the phrase conspiracy theory was coined, after JFK's assassination, by the 'Warren Commission.'; Exec' order 11130. It was used as a 'catch-all' phrase to deny ant anti-official narrative a voice. Been used ever since to cast a shadow over people trying yo uncover truths, and censure debate.

 

As far as c-19 is concerned, there is a loosening of the narrative. But it's very controlled. The flood-gates are far from being open. The 'dam wall' is yet to break, although there are cracks appearing. So much money depends upon the 'official' view being upheld.

 

As far as other topics are concerned, there is no MSM attachment to anything other than the official line. In the UK, GB News started to examine a different covid  lines only to hit problems. The same with Ms Hartley-Brewer a good while back. She had her wings clipped and was never as bold again.

 

Fortunately there is the alternative media. And it is growing, especially with the enlightened young. whose viewing of TV and hearing radio is becoming less and less.The film Died Suddenly has hit 15 million on Rumble' and over 50 million worldwide. So alternative views are getting out.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, owl sees all said:

AFAIK the phrase conspiracy theory was coined, after JFK's assassination, by the 'Warren Commission.'; Exec' order 11130. It was used as a 'catch-all' phrase to deny ant anti-official narrative a voice. Been used ever since to cast a shadow over people trying yo uncover truths, and censure debate.

 

As far as c-19 is concerned, there is a loosening of the narrative. But it's very controlled. The flood-gates are far from being open. The 'dam wall' is yet to break, although there are cracks appearing. So much money depends upon the 'official' view being upheld.

 

As far as other topics are concerned, there is no MSM attachment to anything other than the official line. In the UK, GB News started to examine a different covid  lines only to hit problems. The same with Ms Hartley-Brewer a good while back. She had her wings clipped and was never as bold again.

 

Fortunately there is the alternative media. And it is growing, especially with the enlightened young. whose viewing of TV and hearing radio is becoming less and less.The film Died Suddenly has hit 15 million on Rumble' and over 50 million worldwide. So alternative views are getting out.

 

 

I provided a link on covid conspiracies that should have explained the difference to you if you had read it. You missed that when you edited my post. The rest of your post is pure conspiracy based opinions.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I provided a link on covid conspiracies that should have explained the difference to you if you had read it. You missed that when you edited my post. The rest of your post is pure conspiracy based opinions.

They never do and then a page or two later you'll often see the same debunked claim again indicating that they never read the links or debate the subject matter contained within them. It's really quite futile to argue with those kind of people.

[rattlesnake]

40 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The psychological foundation of a conspiracy theory is by its very nature based on belief/opinions, as they have no credible facts to back them up. There is no way to scrutinize evidence by experts and no way to make a fact based judgement.

 

From the covid forum rules:

"A forum dedicated to information and discussion of COVID-19 topics. This forum is not for conspiracy theories or any form of political discussion."

 

Why do people believe COVID-19 conspiracy theories?

https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/why-do-people-believe-covid-19-conspiracy-theories/

Right, but Dr Phelps' testimony is not conspiracy theory, you said yourself it was credible.

 

We have moved away from this issue, which was the reason why I posted here in the first place.

 

She claims that in addition to herself and her partner, she knows several people, (including doctors) who have suffered severe reactions after receiving the Covid shot, that there is organized pressure to avoid reporting and mentioning them, and that those reactions are downplayed or ignored by the medical profession in general.

 

This is a significant issue which implies there could be a lot of adverse reactions not taken into account in statistics and risk/benefit assessments.

[owl sees all]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I provided a link on covid conspiracies that should have explained the difference to you if you had read it. You missed that when you edited my post. The rest of your post is pure conspiracy based opinions.

 

Thanks for that Brian.

 

I'm pretty well versed on c-19 thanks. I've my own views on covid, and if I posted them, I could be off on another holiday.

 

What is opinion? My opinions are based upon experience, research and being able to see the truth among a forest of lies. They could differs to yours Brian. But hey!! Let's not any differences come between us, and good debate.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

Right, but Dr Phelps' testimony is not conspiracy theory, you said yourself it was credible.

 

We have moved away from this issue, which was the reason why I posted here in the first place.

 

She claims that in addition to herself and her partner, she knows several people, (including doctors) who have suffered severe reactions after receiving the Covid shot, that there is organized pressure to avoid reporting and mentioning them, and that those reactions are downplayed or ignored by the medical profession in general.

 

This is a significant issue which implies there could be a lot of adverse reactions not taken into account in statistics and risk/benefit assessments.

You're repeating yourself, a few posts ago you said you didn't do that..........

 

Dr Phelps made some excellent recommendations as well as stating clearly that:

 

"strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

 

Cherry picking your conspiracy beliefs yet again. You said you didn't believe that bit.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

 

Thanks for that Brian.

 

I'm pretty well versed on c-19 thanks. I've my own views on covid, and if I posted them, I could be off on another holiday.

 

What is opinion? My opinions are based upon experience, research and being able to see the truth among a forest of lies. They could differs to yours Brian. But hey!! Let's not any differences come between us, and good debate.

 

 

Right, your so well versed you fail to read specific links that are relevant and make false assumptions. My opinions are based on credible fact based research that does not need to be hidden. Impossible to debate when only one can produce facts and the other can only provide false beliefs. That said I'm not letting differences come between us in other threads but covid is clear.

[rattlesnake]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You're repeating yourself, a few posts ago you said you didn't do that..........

 

Dr Phelps made some excellent recommendations as well as stating clearly that:

 

"strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

 

Cherry picking your conspiracy beliefs yet again. You said you didn't believe that bit.

I said I never had the same debate twice, in this case you're refusing to debate but at least it's clear now who is doing the cherry picking.

 

There is a massive cover-up of regarding vaccine injury, as stated by Dr Phelps in her credible testimony, and this is made possible only because people such as yourself refuse to acknowledge it.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

I said I never had the same debate twice, in this case you're refusing to debate but at least it's clear now who is doing the cherry picking.

 

There is a massive cover-up of regarding vaccine injury, as stated by Dr Phelps in her credible testimony, and this is made possible only because people such as yourself refuse to acknowledge it.

I'll believe there's a massive cover up when I see politicians standing up in parliament using parliamentary privilege to allege it. So far that hasn't happened.

[owl sees all]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Right, your so well versed you fail to read specific links that are relevant and make false assumptions. My opinions are based on credible fact based research that does not need to be hidden. Impossible to debate when only one can produce facts and the other can only provide false beliefs. That said I'm not letting differences come between us in other threads but covid is clear.

 

Thanks for that Brian.

 

Many 'facts' and 'research' is simply junk science. it is properly estimated that 40% of scientific medical papers are just nonsense. There is an 'old-boys' network reviewing mach of these papers. I would personally put that 40% much higher.

 

I've just been listening to Martin Summers insisting that covid was a bio-weapon developed by the US, to be used against the Chinese. He gives various reasons why he believes what he does. Others believe that c-19 is a variation of SARS or MERS. I've get my own views on covid, and they are not either of those two.

 

But to return to the OP. There is just a minute relaxation of debate. The populas is being steered in a certain direction and IMO will not change direction or waver.

 

[rattlesnake]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'll believe there's a massive cover up when I see politicians standing up in parliament using parliamentary privilege to allege it. So far that hasn't happened.

Great, hear you go.

 

Tory MP alleges 'cover up' of Covid vaccine inflaming heart arteries in bombshell claim

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1709123/tory-mp-covid-vaccine-inflaming-heart-arteries-commons-debate-update

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

 

Thanks for that Brian.

 

Many 'facts' and 'research' is simply junk science. it is properly estimated that 40% of scientific medical papers are just nonsense. There is an 'old-boys' network reviewing mach of these papers. I would personally put that 40% much higher.

 

I've just been listening to Martin Summers insisting that covid was a bio-weapon developed by the US, to be used against the Chinese. He gives various reasons why he believes what he does. Others believe that c-19 is a variation of SARS or MERS. I've get my own views on covid, and they are not either of those two.

 

But to return to the OP. There is just a minute relaxation of debate. The populas is being steered in a certain direction and IMO will not change direction or waver.

 

Link to your claim that 40% of medical research is nonsense? The rules require that you produce a link to any claim of fact.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

I said I never had the same debate twice, in this case you're refusing to debate but at least it's clear now who is doing the cherry picking.

 

There is a massive cover-up of regarding vaccine injury, as stated by Dr Phelps in her credible testimony, and this is made possible only because people such as yourself refuse to acknowledge it.

lol, of course I'm refusing to debate with someone who cant back up his claims. My links and facts to all she said have already been posted.

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

 

Thanks for that Brian.

 

Many 'facts' and 'research' is simply junk science. it is properly estimated that 40% of scientific medical papers are just nonsense. There is an 'old-boys' network reviewing mach of these papers. I would personally put that 40% much higher.

 

I've just been listening to Martin Summers insisting that covid was a bio-weapon developed by the US, to be used against the Chinese. He gives various reasons why he believes what he does. Others believe that c-19 is a variation of SARS or MERS. I've get my own views on covid, and they are not either of those two.

 

But to return to the OP. There is just a minute relaxation of debate. The populas is being steered in a certain direction and IMO will not change direction or waver.

 

"Many 'facts' and 'research' is simply junk science. it is properly estimated that 40% of scientific medical papers are just nonsense."

 

I stopped reading there, I live in the real world

[ozimoron]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

Great, hear you go.

 

Tory MP alleges 'cover up' of Covid vaccine inflaming heart arteries in bombshell claim

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1709123/tory-mp-covid-vaccine-inflaming-heart-arteries-commons-debate-update

The topic is about an claim made in Australia. Your link is from a source known for unreliability but isn't relevant to this thread

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

lol, of course I'm refusing to debate with someone who cant back up his claims. My links and facts to all she said have already been posted.

 

My opinion is backed by Dr Phelp's testimony. And no you have not addressed what I mentioned above, apart from admitting she was credible a couple of days ago.

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The topic is about an claim made in Australia. Your link is from a source known for unreliability but isn't relevant to this thread

Right, there are plenty of sources if you want to check but of course you won't as it would force you out of your pseudo-reality.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

My opinion is backed by Dr Phelp's testimony. And no you have not addressed what I mentioned above, apart from admitting she was credible a couple of days ago.

That's where you lose all logic and credibility as Dr Phelps also said: "strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

My opinion is backed by Dr Phelp's testimony. And no you have not addressed what I mentioned above, apart from admitting she was credible a couple of days ago.

I said Phelps was lying if she claimed there was a massive cover up. If true, it would have been alleged in parliament.

[rattlesnake]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

That's where you lose all logic and credibility as Dr Phelps also said: "strongly supports Covid vaccination as the benefits far outweighed the risks for the vast majority of people."

This is not an actual Dr Pelps quote but was written by a Daily Mail journalist. I can't find any such quote from Dr Phelps following her testimony about her Covid vaccination injury.

[rattlesnake]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I said Phelps was lying if she claimed there was a massive cover up. If true, it would have been alleged in parliament.

So you will acknowledge it if it is alleged in the Australian parliament?

[ozimoron]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

So you will acknowledge it if it is alleged in the Australian parliament?

By more than a single wingnut parliamentarian and that the allegation was given some credence. George Christiansen doesn't count.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

This is not an actual Dr Pelps quote but was written by a Daily Mail journalist. I can't find any such quote from Dr Phelps following her testimony about her Covid vaccination injury.

Did you read the links from her personal paper that she submitted? The links to her official statements? It seems not, even though I posted them and you responded to it. Read her personal submission, she directs readers to go to her official links.

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Did you read the links from her personal paper that she submitted? The links to her official statements? It seems not, even though I posted them and you responded to it. Read her personal submission, she directs readers to go to her official links.

How many times do I have to tell you? ????

Edited December 24, 2022 by ozimoron

[rattlesnake]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Did you read the links from her personal paper that she submitted? The links to her official statements? It seems not, even though I posted them and you responded to it. Read her personal submission, she directs readers to go to her official links.

I checked the links to the Australian Medical Association and ozsage, and read the titles of the footnotes but didn't open them individually. So far I haven't see any statement specifically by Dr Phelps, following the officialisation of her injury, in which she claims the benefits of the Covid vaccines far outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people. If I missed anything, I would be very appreciative if you could post it or give me the name of the link so I can go back and check.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

I checked the links to the Australian Medical Association and ozsage, and read the titles of the footnotes but didn't open them individually. So far I haven't see any statement specifically by Dr Phelps, following the officialisation of her injury, in which she claims the benefits of the Covid vaccines far outweigh the risks for the vast majority of people. If I missed anything, I would be very appreciative if you could post it or give me the name of the link so I can go back and check.

She endorsed them, she linked to them, she works for them. They form part of her personal submission. I'm done with your deflection for your own personal agenda.

[Bkk Brian]

A couple of examples where vaccinations reduce death rates, both from real world stats and studies:

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~50%2B

 

Covid-19 vaccines have saved more than 3 million lives in US, study says

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/13/health/covid-19-vaccines-study/index.html