Top US general says Ukraine war has become an 'absolute catastrophe' for Russia, estimating it's suffered 'significantly well over' 100,000 casualties

[Scott]

 

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley on Friday said that Russia has "really suffered a lot" in Ukraine and urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the war.

 

"The Russian casualties — last time I reported out on it publicly, I said it was well over 100,000. I would say it's significantly well over 100,000 now," Milley said at a news conference alongside Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin in Germany, providing a slight update on a figure the top US general offered in November.

 

Milley said that the "tremendous amount of casualties" suffered by Russia included "regular military, and also their mercenaries in the Wagner Group and other type forces that are fighting with the Russians."

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/milley-russia-has-significantly-well-over-100000-casualties-in-ukraine-2023-1

[Tug]

And for what?to satisfy one man’s dream of legacy ahhhhh just horrible truly horrible slava Ukraine ???????? 

[Denim]

Not been too nice for Ukraine either. Many casualties defending their own country.

Becoming a horrible war of attrition.

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, Scott said:

I would say it's significantly well over 100,000 now

And?

Will the Russians now retreat and apologize and say they will never do it again?

Or will they think when 100,000 Russians died already that they want to see results for that?

Or do the 100,000 not really matter for Putin who makes the decisions?

 

And let's not forget all the dead people and the huge destruction in Ukraine. Even considering the theoretical possibility that Russia could retreat completely from everywhere in Ukraine, would that mean Ukraine won?

A big part of their country is destroyed. They lost, a lot, even if they "win".

 

 

[vandeventer]

You can't drive the Russians out with pea shooters so give them the tanks that they badly need. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by vandeventer

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

You can't drive the Russians out with pea shooters so give them the tanks that they badly need. 

And then? What do you expect Putin will do then?

Will Putin retreat? Will he leave Ukraine completely?

Or will there be more fighting on an even more serious level?

 

I don't pretend that I know the answers. But I am pretty sure Putin won't just retreat. So more weapons might make the situation only worse. And what will then be the next step? More weapons?

 

[herfiehandbag]

37 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then? What do you expect Putin will do then?

Will Putin retreat? Will he leave Ukraine completely?

Or will there be more fighting on an even more serious level?

 

I don't pretend that I know the answers. But I am pretty sure Putin won't just retreat. So more weapons might make the situation only worse. And what will then be the next step? More weapons?

 

I don't think that there is any real prospect of a negotiated "peace". Any treaty will inevitably be broken by Putin or whichever strongman succeeds/overthrows him. Ukraine is unlikely to accept any terms which leave any of its territory in Russian hands, and after all, why should they?

 

Sadly the only viable result will be the complete victory of one side or the other. If Russia wins it will mean the complete destruction and subjugation of Ukraine as a country, a mortal blow for democracy; and existential threats to the Baltic States in particular, and perhaps Poland and Finland.

 

If Ukraine wins, it will entail the destruction of Russia's military, and probably the a break up of the country, sinking into a mess of competing warlords; the break up of the Soviet Union writ again, this time with civil war. We can only hope that their nukes are as <deleted> as the rest of their kit.

 

Either possibility will be a mess. Both possibilities will mean that Europe and NATO, in particular it's northern members will have to look to their defences.

 

It is ironic that NATO, after decades of seeming pointless, and foolishly allowing itself to be sucked into global (US) politics, has rediscovered it's core purpose, just as the USA looks as it may be losing interest. Maybe that will be Putin's legacy?

Edited January 22, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I don't think that there is any real prospect of a negotiated "peace". Any treaty will inevitably be broken by Putin or whichever strongman succeeds/overthrows him. Ukraine is unlikely to accept any terms which leave any of its territory in Russian hands, and after all, why should they?

 

Sadly the only viable result will be the complete victory of one side or the other. If Russia wins it will mean the complete destruction and subjugation of Ukraine as a country, a mortal blow for democracy; and existential threats to the Baltic States in particular, and perhaps Poland and Finland.

 

If Ukraine wins, it will entail the destruction of Russia's military, and probably the a break up of the country, sinking into a mess of competing warlords; the break up of the Soviet Union writ again, this time with civil war. We can only hope that their nukes are as <deleted> as the rest of their kit.

 

Either possibility will be a mess. Both possibilities will mean that Europe and NATO, in particular it's northern members will have to look to their defences.

 

It is ironic that NATO, after decades of seeming pointless, and foolishly allowing itself to be sucked into global (US) politics, has rediscovered it's core purpose, just as the USA looks as it may be losing interest. Maybe that will be Putin's legacy?

Agree with a large part of your post. But why do you think that if Ukraine manages to evict the Russians troops from its territory this will lead to the breakup of Russia?

[Saanim]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley on Friday said that Russia has "really suffered a lot" in Ukraine and urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the war.

But that's quite different what he said in November:

Biden admin divided over path ahead for Ukraine as top US general Milley pushes for diplomacy 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/11/politics/ukraine-mark-milley-negotiations-biden-administration-debate/index.html

 

[Kwasaki]

If it's a war based on numbers Mr General don't forget what number the Ukrainian people have lost. 

 

They want tanks in numbers Mr General not idiots like you spouting off about Russia.

 

If you want numbers look at what the Russian population is and what the Ukrainian population is. 

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If it's a war based on numbers Mr General don't forget what number the Ukrainian people have lost. 

 

They want tanks in numbers Mr General not idiots like you spouting off about Russia.

 

If you want numbers look at what the Russian population is and what the Ukrainian population is. 

Do you really think the chief of staff is an idiot who doesn't know the numbers?

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Do you really think the chief of staff is an idiot who doesn't know the numbers?

When it comes to US Generals yes just bags of wind IMO.

[pomchop]

How would the world be doing now economy and otherwise if Putin had not started this entire mess?

 

Just as we were semi coming out of the covid  he has to blow up that good news with this stupid hitler wannabe move.  Maybe one of Putin's generals will be able to get rid of Putin, end the war . blame entire mess correctly on Putin, and become a national hero in Russia? 

 

I doubt the Russian people are all that happy about the road Putin is dragging them down and many would be very glad to see him gone.  One bullet to the head could perhaps change history and allow Russians and Ukrainians to return to some semblance of a normal life and avoid potential nuke war as Putin gets backed further and further into a corner..

 

 

[pomchop]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

When it comes to US Generals yes just bags of wind IMO.

and your qualifications are better than career generals?  trump much?

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, pomchop said:

and your qualifications are better than career generals?  trump much?

No history has proven that. 

If he wants to shoot his mouth off why doesn't he have a go at Germany and get the Leopard Tanks into Ukraine. 

[Berkshire]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

Milley said that the "tremendous amount of casualties" suffered by Russia included "regular military, and also their mercenaries in the Wagner Group and other type forces that are fighting with the Russians."

Yeah, the convicts are dropping like flies....which doesn't bother Putin even a little bit.  Maybe they need to recruit some homeless people, or perhaps older females.  I doubt Putin wants to lose the young hotties.  

[Saanim]

10 minutes ago, pomchop said:

How would the world be doing now economy and otherwise if Putin had not started this entire mess?

 

Just as we were semi coming out of the covid  he has to blow up that good news with this stupid hitler wannabe move.  Maybe one of Putin's generals will be able to get rid of Putin, end the war . blame entire mess correctly on Putin, and become a national hero in Russia? 

 

I doubt the Russian people are all that happy about the road Putin is dragging them down and many would be very glad to see him gone.  One bullet to the head could perhaps change history and allow Russians and Ukrainians to return to some semblance of a normal life and avoid potential nuke war as Putin gets backed further and further into a corner..

 

 

What are your doubts? The Russian people surely know better for themselves how their life has changed within 30 years after the country had been on verge of a collapse. And that despite of the number of the sanctions within last few years (some say more than 10,000 and counting).

 

That time everybody was happy with Russia and Russians, especially with the oligarchs bringing out the zillions into safe havens.

 

How the sanctions are really working and for who?  The ones who impose the sanctions do not ask their own population for their consent. And the people are the ones who are suffering. And who gets rich by the new situation with the energy?

 

  

 

[Phoenix Rising]

19 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

No history has proven that. 

If he wants to shoot his mouth off why doesn't he have a go at Germany and get the Leopard Tanks into Ukraine. 

Shoot his mouth of?? He's correctly pointing out that this was is an absolute disaster for the Russians. And "having a go at the Germans" is the job of the elected politicians, not career military officers. Understand now?

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Shoot his mouth of?? He's correctly pointing out that this was is an absolute disaster for the Russians. And "having a go at the Germans" is the job of the elected politicians, not career military officers. Understand now?

And having a go should be done via diplomacy, not via the media.

[connda]

The first casualty of war is the truth.

All sides of the conflict utilize propaganda: 
The US/NATO needs to assure the West that Russia is losing badly.
Russia needs to assure Russians that they are winning soundly.

The "truth?"  You'll never see "the truth" in the short-term.  Who is gaining the advantage (I'll dispense with the word, 'winning') and territory, and the ability to project power and governance will only become apparent in the long-term.

I'd check the term "winning" as one side or the other may eventually decide that "winning" is kicking the table with the chessboard over and killing everyone on the planet.  Just saying...

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows.
-Everybody Knows, Leonard Cohen

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Shoot his mouth of?? He's correctly pointing out that this was is an absolute disaster for the Russians. And "having a go at the Germans" is the job of the elected politicians, not career military officers. Understand now?

No i don't understand we already know about what he said the Ukraine needs overwhelming force now not bucket months.

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And having a go should be done via diplomacy, not via the media.

Oh!!  Yeah diplomacy,  that's going well. 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Oh!!  Yeah diplomacy,  that's going well. 

It depends on who you're doing diplomacy with. Obviously, no hope of it going well with a brutal thug like Putin until the punishment is more than Russian forces can bear. But with rational leaders there's always legitimate hope.

[stevenl]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

The first casualty of war is the truth.

All sides of the conflict utilize propaganda: 
The US/NATO needs to assure the West that Russia is losing badly.
Russia needs to assure Russians that they are winning soundly.

The "truth?"  You'll never see "the truth" in the short-term.  Who is gaining the advantage (I'll dispense with the word, 'winning') and territory, and the ability to project power and governance will only become apparent in the long-term.

I'd check the term "winning" as one side or the other may eventually decide that "winning" is kicking the table with the chessboard over and killing everyone on the planet.  Just saying...

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows.
-Everybody Knows, Leonard Cohen

Many independent reporters on the hot spots.

[tomyami]

Unfortunately they will need heavy weapons which Germany is blocking apparently the ruling party is compromised by Russia

Putin doesn't care how many soldiers die while he hides in his bunker just hoping time will be on his side and the west will tire.

[OneMoreFarang]

One thing which it seems is mentioned nowhere is who profits?

 

All those weapons for Ukraine, who pays for them? Sometimes I read weapons are donated. By whom are they donated? And if weapon A is donated which need ammunition B, who pays for ammunition B?

 

And even if i.e. the USA would pay for all the weapons and ammunition which they supply to Ukraine, why? Because they are so nice people? Or because that keeps the military industrial complex running and financed? After all, if Biden (or any other president) donates all that money, it is not really his money, it's other peoples' money.

 

I think it is naive to only look at Ukraine and Russia and who is wrong and who is right. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

If it's a war based on numbers Mr General don't forget what number the Ukrainian people have lost. 

 

They want tanks in numbers Mr General not idiots like you spouting off about Russia.

 

If you want numbers look at what the Russian population is and what the Ukrainian population is. 

Is that why 100's of thousands have moved to Thailand in the last few months leading the numbers of those arriving from all countries?

[Bkk Brian]

What is very clear. Ukraine has regained control of over 50% of its territory since the begining of the war. Continued assistance including tanks will help make that 100%.

 

Endless questions of what if is a distraction to sow doubt. 

[Kwasaki]

31 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Is that why 100's of thousands have moved to Thailand in the last few months leading the numbers of those arriving from all countries?

Make no difference how many Russians leave a country of some 145 million.

Maybe they think they did the right thing for whatever reason.

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

No i don't understand we already know about what he said the Ukraine needs overwhelming force now not bucket months.

Well, I tried......