Are the new generation bivalent covid vaccines available to protect us from the new Omicron subvariants?

[JNASHDDS]

The first generation vaccines made available in Thailand in 2021 are outdated and not effective against the current strains of the covid virus. 

For example, given the spread of the Omicron subvariants BA.4 and BA.5, a bivalent booster shot from Pfizer or Moderna is now the

accepted standard of care in the U.S., and the first generation vaccines are not even used anymore. The following article from Yale Medicine is very informative about this: https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/omicron-booster-covid-19#:~:text=Those who received the bivalent,doses of the monovalent vaccine

I have inquired about this at Bangkok Hospital in Chiangmai and the Chiangmai Provincial Health Office and was told that the bivalent vaccines are not available and there are no known plans to procure the vaccine. The U.S. Consulate had no information about this or whether the U.S. is considering another major donation of vaccines as it did in 2021. It appears that the Thai Government is not actively pursuing the acquisition of these new generation vaccines for administration to the general public and it's reasonable to assume that the farang community cannot expect to benefit from a broad public health bivalent vaccination program anytime soon. I think this is a major concern, especially given the anticipated influx of tourists from China who are likely to be bringing Omicron with them.

Does anyone know if there are any private hospitals in Thailand that have procured the new bivalent vaccine?

 

[sqwakvfr]

I got the Bivalent vaccine while I was back in the US back in September 2022.  You might have to take a trip to the US if you want this vaccine.  While I was in line at the CVS Pharmacy I spoke to a couple from Singapore who come to the US on vacation and decided to get the Bivalent Vaccine as well.  

[mackayae]

Was it free?

[Joebuzzz]

49 minutes ago, mackayae said:

Was it free?

Define "free".  The government pays, the taxpayer pays the government, while the pharmas get pretty dang wealthy pushing a vaccine that doesn't stop, protect from, or kill a virus.  Nothing is free.

[mackayae]

Did you have to pay.

[phennecke]

You might pay with your health.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Thai government had talked last year about plans to acquire the newer bivalent vaccines for use by early 2023...

 

But those plans appear to have fallen by the way. And from the various reports here, there have been no public statements or news reports with any promised availability for Thailand...at least thus far.

 

[swm59nj]

Unfortunately the new generation vaccines are not available at this time. And there is no information when or if they would be available.  The information is from Bumrungard Hospital doctor who I see. 
And if it does come here you might have to pay for it.  You can’t always expect to get “freebies “ in Thailand all the time.  Thailand is not responsible for you.  If a person moves to another country.  And expects that country to give them free things.  That would probably make that person be viewed as a free loader.  So start saving those pennies. 
 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, phennecke said:

You might pay with your health.

Especially if you don't get vaccinated.

[Mad mick]

???????????????? crikey take headache tablet or lemon ???? and honey and relax its like a flu for most of us ???? l have had it . ???? 

[Rimmer]

A conspiracy troll post and a reply have been removed

[Mad mick]

5 hours ago, Joebuzzz said:

Define "free".  The government pays, the taxpayer pays the government, while the pharmas get pretty dang wealthy pushing a vaccine that doesn't stop, protect from, or kill a virus.  Nothing is free.

You paid taxes nothing free your right 

[new2here]

8 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I got the Bivalent vaccine while I was back in the US back in September 2022.  You might have to take a trip to the US if you want this vaccine.  While I was in line at the CVS Pharmacy I spoke to a couple from Singapore who come to the US on vacation and decided to get the Bivalent Vaccine as well.  

Same here.. i got mine (for free*) in the US during my late fall return trip… I had and still have doubts that the “updated” version will ve available here in TH and IF it is, that the supply will be much lower than earlier versions and/or will require some “payment” to get it.

 

(free means no immediate out-of-pocket payment required at time of vaccination, but i acknowledge that in the broadest sense, it’s not free as it’s government supplied ie taxpayer funded)

[sqwakvfr]

9 hours ago, mackayae said:

Was it free?

Yes.  The CVS Pharmacy Clerk asked to see my health insurance and I showed her my Pacific Cross card.  She asked what is this?  I told her this is my health insurance from Thailand. She handed the card back.  I have no idea why CVS was asking for health insurance when it was supposed to be "free"?  In the end I paid nothing.  

[Lorry]

Not avalable in Thailand. 

No need to ask private hospitals, they only have what the government imports. 

No plans to import them,  either. 

[fusion58]

13 hours ago, JNASHDDS said:

The first generation vaccines made available in Thailand in 2021 are outdated and not effective against the current strains of the covid virus. 

Depends on how you define "effective."

 

The first generation vaccines, while not guaranteed to prevent infection, are still effective enough to reduce the likelihood of severe illness and death from all COVID variants.

 

My physician in the U.S., who, BTW, is also a specialist in infectious diseases and virology, advised me to get another booster here in Thailand as it had been ~6 months since my last booster and I had no plans to travel to the U.S. until late spring or early summer this year.

[fusion58]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Yes.  The CVS Pharmacy Clerk asked to see my health insurance and I showed her my Pacific Cross card.  She asked what is this?  I told her this is my health insurance from Thailand. She handed the card back.  I have no idea why CVS was asking for health insurance when it was supposed to be "free"?  In the end I paid nothing.  

It's so the pharmacy can recoup its own cost from your insurance company (if you have insurance.) You can't be denied for not having insurance.

[JNASHDDS]

23 hours ago, Lorry said:

Not avalable in Thailand. 

No need to ask private hospitals, they only have what the government imports. 

No plans to import them,  either. 

What to do about this? Does anyone have a contact at the U.S. Embassy to inquire about the possibility of making a bivalent vaccine donation given that there are an estimated 30,000+ Americans living in Thailand. Like the 2021 donation of 1M doses, all nationalities would benefit.

[JNASHDDS]

23 hours ago, fusion58 said:

Depends on how you define "effective."

 

The first generation vaccines, while not guaranteed to prevent infection, are still effective enough to reduce the likelihood of severe illness and death from all COVID variants.

 

My physician in the U.S., who, BTW, is also a specialist in infectious diseases and virology, advised me to get another booster here in Thailand as it had been ~6 months since my last booster and I had no plans to travel to the U.S. until late spring or early summer this year.

Mis-information or wrong information can be a "killer". My brother is also an infectious disease MD and told me that the 1st generation vaccines are no longer in use in the U.S. because they lack efficacy vs. the current Omicron subvarinats. The following article has a lot of useful information about this from a highly credible source: https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/omicron-booster-covid-19#:~:text=Those who received the bivalent,doses of the monovalent vaccine

[JNASHDDS]

12 hours ago, JNASHDDS said:

Mis-information or wrong information can be a "killer". My brother is also an infectious disease MD and told me that the 1st generation vaccines are no longer in use in the U.S. because they lack efficacy vs. the current Omicron subvarinats. The following article has a lot of useful information about this from a highly credible source: https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/omicron-booster-covid-19#:~:text=Those who received the bivalent,doses of the monovalent vaccine

From the most recent CDC Report: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7205e1.htm

Using spike (S)-gene target presence as a proxy for BA.2 sublineages, including XBB and XBB.1.5, during December 2022–January 2023, the results showed that a bivalent mRNA booster dose provided additional protection against symptomatic XBB/XBB.1.5 infection for at least the first 3 months after vaccination in persons who had previously received 2–4 monovalent vaccine doses.

What are the implications for public health practice?

As new SARS-CoV-2 variants emerge, continued vaccine effectiveness monitoring is important. All persons should stay up to date with recommend COVID-19 vaccines, including receiving a bivalent booster dose when eligible.

[Rimmer]

Some troll posts cumulating in an unattributed troll post have been removed

[metisdead]

A post with a "link" to an unapproved YouTube source has been removed:

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[jayboy]

On 1/24/2023 at 1:20 PM, swm59nj said:

Unfortunately the new generation vaccines are not available at this time. And there is no information when or if they would be available.  The information is from Bumrungard Hospital doctor who I see. 
And if it does come here you might have to pay for it.  You can’t always expect to get “freebies “ in Thailand all the time.  Thailand is not responsible for you.  If a person moves to another country.  And expects that country to give them free things.  That would probably make that person be viewed as a free loader.  So start saving those pennies. 
 

That (the lack of any plans to import bivalent vaccines) is my understanding also after talking to a number of qualified Thai sources.I believe Sheryl has also confirmed her understanding of the position.

 

The Thai medics I spoke to - off the record - were however highly critical and thought the government was being almost excessively complacent, given the scientific evidence (particularly the US CDC recommendations) that bivalent boosters were needed for vulnerable groups.I was unable to get any sense from speaking to the major Bangkok hospitals - your discussion with an individual doctor is more effective

 

if there is a change of policy it will come from the educated Thai professional classes lobbying since they will want to protect their elderly relatives.

 

I don't see any point in discussing whether foreigners would be charged.That is surely the least important aspect.

 

I will get it in the UK next month.But I would still like to see a clear statement from the Ministry explaining why the best international practice is not being followed, particularly as Chinese tourism picks up.I may be wrong but I suspect there's a view Covid is all but over so they can get away with it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Tone deaf Thailand -- The U.S. is likely headed toward totally discontinuing use of the original COVID vaccines and making all future vaccinations (for now) the newer bivalent variety:

 

FDA advisors recommend replacing original Covid vaccine with bivalent omicron shots for all doses

 

The Food and Drug Administration’s independent advisory committee on Thursday recommended replacing Pfizer and Moderna’s original Covid vaccine used in the U.S. for everyone’s first two immunizations with the new bivalent omicron shots.

 

If the FDA accepts the advisors’ recommendation, the U.S. would likely phase out the companies’ vaccines developed in 2020 against the original Covid-19 strain that emerged in Wuhan, China.

 

Instead, the drugmakers’ bivalent omicron shots that target the omicron BA.5 subvariant as well as the original strain would be used for the entire vaccination series.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/fda-advisors-recommend-using-covid-omicron-shots-for-all-doses.html

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Two new studies paint encouraging picture of Covid-19 vaccine’s performance

 

Two new studies published Wednesday report good news about the updated Covid-19 vaccine, with one suggesting it is more effective than the previous monovalent vaccine and the other showing that even though it targeted an earlier strain of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, its protection is holding up against current variants.

 

The findings suggest the updated vaccine, which targets both the original SARS-2 virus and the Omicron subvariants BA.4 and BA.5, is performing better than some critics of the decision to update the vaccine concluded, based on studies that only compared the levels of neutralizing antibodies each induced.

...

“It’s clear from this study that the bivalent booster, in that short term following administration, provides additional protection above and beyond that of the monovalent,” said Michael Osterholm, director of the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Diseases Research and Policy.

 

(more)

 

https://www.statnews.com/2023/01/25/updated-covid-19-booster-still-providing-strong-protection-against-newer-variants-cdc-study-finds/

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This study below by the U.S. CDC is one of the two summarized in the above news report and post:

 

January 25, 2023

 

CDC publishes first estimates of bivalent boosters’ effectiveness against XBB.1.5

 

The CDC for the first time has estimated how effective the bivalent COVID-19 vaccines have been against the newest dominant omicron subvariant of SARS-CoV-2.

 

The subvariant, XBB.1.5, which has been described as the most transmissible SARS-CoV-2 subvariant yet, was responsible for around 49% of new COVID-19 cases in the United States last week, according to CDC tracking.

...

Although prior studies have shown that the bivalent boosters have provided added protection against symptomatic COVID-19 and reduced the risk for severe outcomes from the disease compared with receiving two to four doses of monovalent mRNA vaccines, only around 15% of the eligible U.S. population has received one of the shots, according to CDC tracking.

 

 

Poster's note: Note that the above protection levels against the XBB variant are based on protection against the very common/routine COVID infection with any symptoms, and not measuring against the more rare and severe COVID with hospitalization or death, where the vaccines usually provide even higher levels of protection.

 

(more)

 

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20230125/cdc-publishes-first-estimates-of-bivalent-boosters-effectiveness-against-xbb15

 

[Scott]

Post from an unapproved source has been reported and removed.  

 

[2009]

On 1/24/2023 at 9:45 AM, Joebuzzz said:

Define "free".  The government pays, the taxpayer pays the government, while the pharmas get pretty dang wealthy pushing a vaccine that doesn't stop, protect from, or kill a virus.  Nothing is free.

I bet you're popular at parties 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:46 PM, JNASHDDS said:

My brother is also an infectious disease MD and told me that the 1st generation vaccines are no longer in use in the U.S. because they lack efficacy vs. the current Omicron subvarinats.

 

Your above comment is not factually correct, although vaccinations in the U.S. are heading in that general direction (that is, the newer bivalent vaccines replacing the original versions of the COVID vaccines).

 

A U.S. FDA advisory panel just this past week RECOMMENDED phasing out the original COVID vaccine versions in favor of using the newer bivalent vaccine formulations for ALL future vaccinations, not just as boosters after the original version vaccines were used as the first and second doses, which is the current U.S. policy.

 

However, for right now, that's just a RECOMMENDATION in the U.S., and the original versions of the vaccines are still available and being used right now.... although that may not be lasting for much longer into the future.

 

CNBC had a good article on the FDA panel's recommendation, which still has to be acted on by the FDA agency and then by the U.S. CDC before the change can come into effect:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/fda-advisors-recommend-using-covid-omicron-shots-for-all-doses.html

 

 

 

[JNASHDDS]

Members of this Forum can certainly quibble and offer their own opinions about vaccine efficacy, etc.; but it's clear that Thailand is not pursuing an up-to-date covid vaccination policy and is stuck with the 2020 - 21 model, relying on their stock of monovalent vaccines instead of state-of-the-art bivalents- to the detriment of everyone who lives here.  Fyi from the U.S. FDA last week: "The agency, in briefing documents released in advance of a meeting this week with its vaccine advisers, said the goal is to determine in the spring which strain will pose the greatest threat the following winter. A vaccine targeting that strain would then be administered in the fall."

This is the kind of sensible Public Health approach that is needed to protect the population from mutating strains of covid-19. The question is, what can we do about it?

Anyone have any ideas?