Pattaya operating at near full capacity

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Pattaya operating at near full capacity

 

 

And in other news.......

 

 

Yes, you get press releases from government agencies and associations saying one thing, and business owners saying another thing. 

 

It appears both are correct.  The numbers are up, but the spend is down.  This was happening in 2019 as well. 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Leaver

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can only comment on Chiang Mai earlier this week.

Loads of real tourists around, a couple asked me why so many business (of all sorts) are locked and shuttered.

Went to the bars in Loi Kroh, again half are closed, and the open ones mostly empty.

There were a couple of busy bars, but most were more girls than customers.

 

Would you say Chiang Mai is "thriving?" 

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, moe666 said:

It will drop off in march low season and to hot

We didn't get the low seasons like in the past. Russians, Chinese and Indians liked to come for the lower prices. Antipodeans come later on too, to avoid what they think is cold!

[newnative]

46 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Yes, you get press releases from government agencies and associations saying one thing, and business owners saying another thing. 

 

It appears both are correct.  The numbers are up, but the spend is down.  This was happening in 2019 as well. 

 

    Any actual statistics on your claim that the 'numbers' were up but the 'spend' was down in 2019?  And, what numbers and what spend, for what group or groups? 

 

[BigStar]

52 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The numbers are up, but the spend is down.  This was happening in 2019 as well. 

Ah. Let's see your spend numbers for 2019 - 2022.

Edited January 28, 2023 by BigStar

[San Fran Dan]

7 hours ago, skorp13 said:

 I live in a Thai area of Pattaya where there are probably 7 hotels that catered to the Chinese tourisits. Including 3 hotels right behind my house where buses used to run non stop. They are all closed. Yes the town is busy and traffic is bad but not to pre cpvid levels

I see that in Pratumak 

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Prices for many things in Pattaya are significantly higher now than they were 9 months ago when I came back. Show me a restaurant that doesn't have stickers over the old prices on menus.

Not really anything to do with Pattaya or restaurants, food prices are up at wholesale level. Meat generally is about a third more than it was in markets 6-8 months ago.

Many of the street food outlets around here have tried to keep increases to 5 or 10 baht with smaller portions and cut back on extras such as tissues on the table and the selection of sauce and condiments available.

There really ought to be a special tax for the Russians.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, thesetat said:

Everyone in Pattaya can thank TAT and the Chinese leader for opening up China to travel at precisely the time when their Covid outbreak was at its peak there. Then Tat and the Thai governments approval to allow anyone back into this country. I foresee some terrible Covid situation arising again in Pattaya soon. Let's hope I am wrong. 

Why can't people get away from the single track thinking.

I have just come back from Luang Prabang and that was what you may call busy. The night market was like the London tube in rush hour, and the eating area was something else. Must have been around 300 tables and a case of dead man's shoes. Being the Lunar New Year guess which nationality predominated.

If Thailand has a problem, Lao will be wiped off the face of the earth.

Better to stick to reality.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Yet some continue to refute the oversupply here. 

I've not seen anyone say there isn't an over supply of bars? have a quote from someone?

[PB172111]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Do you live here? Thailand has long had very low inflation. The point is that is now changing and not just from imported goods as one would naturally anticipate. Local restaurant prices have increased by about 30 to 50% since I came 9 months ago. Just an anecdote based on my personal experience. It was not always ever thus as you imply. It's noteworthy because prices here were very stable for many years.

Yup, for the last 8 years

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've not seen anyone say there isn't an over supply of bars? have a quote from someone?

No, he made that up. Sigh.

[Peabody]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

Nobody said Pattaya is back to pre-COVID levels, usual straw man argument. Reminiscent of the constant finger-wagging that domestic tourists would totally compensate for the lack of international tourists. Nobody ever said that, just hot air.

Title of article?

 

"Pattaya operating at near full capacity"

[BigStar]

Just now, Peabody said:

Title of article?

 

"Pattaya operating at near full capacity"

What is it about near full that you don't understand?

[kinyara]

5 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

What you describe is TAT's way of tourism.  That is, just go for quantity, not quality.  Yes, it's busy here now, but are the tourists spending in businesses that cater for tourists?  

 

The big numbers do not necessarily mean big baht.  This goes back to the "zero baht Chinese" debate, and for yet another thread on the issue. 

 

At best, there are harsh economic times ahead for many of Thailand's traditional western market countries, and at worse, a global recession late 2023 or early 2024.  This is not a prediction of mine, it has been in the media with many economists around the world predicting it, and I tend to agree with them that economic factor are pointing in that direction. 

 

You don't see these impending global economic conditions as having any effect on tourism in Thailand at all? 

Haven't seen any official spend figures reported yet for high season, they usually seem to lag the more straight forward arrivals figures.

 

I'd be watching for when the first monthly decline in arrivals happens this year and what level numbers are at when that happens to see if their 2023 target of 25 million is realistic in the current climate. I personally think it's achieveable just as I thought their 10 million for last year was back in July looking at the monthly recovery trend. I don't see any reason to be overly pessimistic given the level of recovery we have seen even without the Chinese market until now.

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

14 hours ago, hioctane said:

Wrong. In the middle of Covid, prices were considerably lower.

That's true. Hotel prices were at new lows. Lived in 4 star place for 800 Baht. Now you would hardly get a room for less than 2000 and often fully booked anyway. Other 3 star places in the 600 Baht range now more like 1000.

Domestic flights were a breeze, cheap and in time (record time Khon Kaen to Suvarnabhumi 36 min lift-off to touch down). That's definitely over. Expensive, unreliable.

Prices at beer bars, small bottle local at 44 or even less, just above 7/11.

Scooter 600 Baht for a week.

Many more examples.

Edited January 28, 2023 by KhunBENQ

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

Ah. Let's see your spend numbers for 2019 - 2022.

 

2019 was the quietest high season I have ever seen, covid aside.

 

Now that covid has come to pass, things will return to 2019, with struggling businesses. 

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've not seen anyone say there isn't an over supply of bars? have a quote from someone?

 

AN member newative is quite vocal on this issue, particularly with residential property, but also with retail and hospitality.   

 

[BigStar]

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

2019 was the quietest high season I have ever seen, covid aside.

 

Now that covid has come to pass, things will return to 2019, with struggling businesses. 

We don't need to know what you claim to have seen or read the same old tired predictions. I don't see your numbers. Do you have any, or could it be you were just blowing hot air?

Edited January 28, 2023 by BigStar

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

Haven't seen any official spend figures reported yet for high season,

 

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

'd be watching for when the first monthly decline in arrivals happens this year and what level numbers are at

 

Once again, why are you solely focused on "the numbers" and not the "spend" or baht? 

 

For example, how much money do Walking Street businesses make out of pedestrian traffic who are only there to observer and take photos?

 

It's the old case of Walking Street is busy, but the businesses on Walk Street are not, hence, it's all about "the spend" and not the numbers. 

[Leaver]

17 minutes ago, BigStar said:

We don't need to know what you claim to have seen or read the same old tired predictions. I don't see your numbers. Do you have any, or could it be you were just blowing hot air?

 

I started a thread in 2019 about closure of favorite bars and restaurants being imminent, such was the regularity of closures back then.

 

What makes you think the problems Pattaya had in 2019 have disappeared? 

[BigStar]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

I started a thread in 2019 about closure of favorite bars and restaurants being imminent, such was the regularity of closures back then.

 

What makes you think the problems Pattaya had in 2019 have disappeared? 

What makes you think we don't know that you don't have any numbers and were just blowing hot air as usual? Or that we don't know you're now trying to change the subject? It ain't changing.

[BigStar]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Once again, why are you solely focused on "the numbers" and not the "spend" or baht? 

The spend is the average amounts of BAHT SPENT per tourist, per time frame, by group; and those are expressed in numbers. So, let's have 'em, 2019 - 2022 to see if your claims about the comparative spends are correct. If SHOCK! you don't have any, then your claims can be (cough) dismissed as nonsense. Rarely happens, of course.  

[Dave0206]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

No, he made that up. Sigh.

Usually when there is an overwhelming amount of bars in relation to customers every 2nd bar has a for sale sign 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

    Any actual statistics on your claim that the 'numbers' were up but the 'spend' was down in 2019?  And, what numbers and what spend, for what group or groups? 

 

 

There are currently two threads running with opposing views. 

 

One from a tourism association saying how the numbers are up, the other from a restaurant owner on Walking Street who is going broke.

 

One is unaccountable, and has no skin in the game.  The other is a business owner with obligations to meet, as well as providing for family. 

 

Who to believe? 

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, BigStar said:

What makes you think we don't know that you don't have any numbers and were just blowing hot air as usual? Or that we don't know you're now trying to change the subject? It ain't changing.

 

Not changing the subject. 

 

Many businesses were not doing well here, pre covid. 

 

There has been a post covid revival, but as time passes, things will revert to 2019 numbers and spend, impending global recession aside.  

 

Pattaya's problems for businesses hasn't disappeared.  

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, BigStar said:

The spend is the average amounts of BAHT SPENT per tourist, per time frame, by group; and those are expressed in numbers.

 

Usually inflated, and does not take into account Chinese owned businesses, where in many cases, the money doesn't even get to Thailand's shores. 

 

12 minutes ago, BigStar said:

see if your claims about the comparative spends are correct. If SHOCK! you don't have any, then your claims can be (cough) dismissed as nonsense.

 

Here's your spend, zero baht.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/business/pattaya-tourism-growth-slows-zero-baht-crackdown-161125

 

That's why they gave up and made it a free for all for the Chinese tours here. 

 

But hey, the next thing you will be saying on this forum is that you sat in a bar recently and saw a Chinese guy ring the bell, which was applauded by some Indian customers, with Russian customers calling the guy "comrade."    

[Saanim]

How touching the care of expats about Thai tourism outcome...

[internationalism]

I have just spend several days at Jomtien, my hotel was empty, I came accross only several guests.

Parkings at neaby hotels empty. Very few lights from rooms at night, less than 10%.

I have looked at one of hotels for future stay - I have seen only one room rented.

Empty side street restaurants.

But many shoppers at food markets in the evenings, all tables taken.

The majority are Russians speakers. They won't stay long - they likely came on charter flights for 2 weeks. Tour buses taking them half empty 

[Leaver]

33 minutes ago, internationalism said:

I have just spend several days at Jomtien, my hotel was empty, I came accross only several guests.

Parkings at neaby hotels empty. Very few lights from rooms at night, less than 10%.

I have looked at one of hotels for future stay - I have seen only one room rented.

Empty side street restaurants.

But many shoppers at food markets in the evenings, all tables taken.

The majority are Russians speakers. They won't stay long - they likely came on charter flights for 2 weeks. Tour buses taking them half empty 

 

Would you say Jomtien is "thriving?" 

[newnative]

51 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

There are currently two threads running with opposing views. 

 

One from a tourism association saying how the numbers are up, the other from a restaurant owner on Walking Street who is going broke.

 

One is unaccountable, and has no skin in the game.  The other is a business owner with obligations to meet, as well as providing for family. 

 

Who to believe? 

   Neither.  I'm looking for actual statistics, not opinions from this person or that association.  You said the 'numbers' were up but the 'spend' was down in 2019.   Where are your actual statistics to back up your claim?  And, again, what 'numbers', what 'spend'?