Roofing Advice needed

[UTBoro]

Hello. We have a bungalow here in Thailand and the painters working on it today noticed we had a few broken tiles in the middle of the roof. They reckon that we’ll have to remove all of the tiles above the broken tiles ( about 6 rows) in order to replace them. I know nothing about roofs or tiles so is he right or can I just lift the tiles in the next row up to replace them? Advice appreciated????????

[nigelforbes]

Your roofers are talking nonsense, those tiles can be individually removed and replaced, I've done it loads of times. It is possible, although highly improbable, that each tile is wired to the strut, in which case a trip into the roof void may be necessary to cut the first wire, thereafter it can all be done externally.

Edited January 30, 2023 by nigelforbes
spelling

[Elkski]

I'm not a rule roof expert. But as a mechanical engineer I have carefully examined several types of clay tiles and their install.  Can you believe I am interested enough to stop and observe at most construction jobs of all types while in Thailand or on vacation.   Many clay tiles have a hole in them near the top. I believe yours will have 2 holes since they are wide and have 2 valleys each.   The ones I saw in Thailand had a hole in the valley.  If they put a nail or screw into to batten on the tiles above your broken one you may need to remove all the way up to and including the ridge.  And depending on which way your ridge tiles are running that can dictate how much ridge needs pulled up.  Your tiles look like the type that have many interlocking features so you won't be able to just pull out a tile and replace it.  

 Very beautiful roof and patio you have there.  I do see signs of water damage on your patio ceiling. 

Prepare to replace other tiles that may break when they walk in the roof.  I'm pretty sure you have some Spare tiles you have stored all these years.  

I should add that I am a do it right type of guy.  I never cludge anything. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Elkski
I dislike hack repairs.

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I'm not a rule roof expert. But as a mechanical engineer I have carefully examined several types of clay tiles and their install.  Can you believe I am interested enough to stop and observe at most construction jobs while in Thailand or in vacation.   Many clay tiles have a hole in them near the top.  The ones I saw in Thailand had a hole.  If they put a nail or screw into to batten on the tiles above your broken one you may need to remove all the way up to and including the ridge.  And depending on which way your ridge tiles are running that can dictate how much ridge needs pulled up. 

Yes, that is what I was trying to explain when I said the tile may be wired to the batton, it could of course be pegged as you describe. But it's only necessary to release the first peg/screw or wire from the underneath or inside of the roof, thereafter any peg/screw or wire can be removed from the outside by reaching in and under the next tile.The process is to lift up the lower end of the tile above, this allows any wire of peg tpo be removed or cut from the tile underneath. It's a simple enough task, all concrete roof tiles are managed in a similar way..

[Elkski]

And maybe only every 3rd row is attached and you get lucky with your broken one.   Don't they have some type of drainage material on the roof under the battens?  Like a tarpaper.    I've been watching some solar panel install videos and they make it look easy to pull up tiles in a grid pattern to install these metal brackets to the battems so you can attach a solar panel rail to them but I don't believe it.   What a mess it would be to have a roof leak under your solar panel installation on any type roof.  I have tar shingles and they are still in ok shape but 20 years old now of I think a 30 year life so I would want to replace them before I installed solar but that would be an extra 15k USD.  Solar companies always tell me no big deal. 

[nigelforbes]

7 minutes ago, Elkski said:

And maybe only every 3rd row is attached and you get lucky with your broken one.   Don't they have some type of drainage material on the roof under the battens?  Like a tarpaper.    I've been watching some solar panel install videos and they make it look easy to pull up tiles in a grid pattern to install these metal brackets to the battems so you can attach a solar panel rail to them but I don't believe it.   What a mess it would be to have a roof leak under your solar panel installation on any type roof.  I have tar shingles and they are still in ok shape but 20 years old now of I think a 30 year life so I would want to replace them before I installed solar but that would be an extra 15k USD.  Solar companies always tell me no big deal. 

Certainly no tar paper but very possibly a radiant barrier which is aluminum foil like sheeting which is easily cut and retaped.

[Elkski]

I have some friends in Utah who have a very large house with clay tiles. It is a complicated roof and they had many leaks  and the company that installed it wanted 60k USD to fix it.  We get ice dams here and that can wreak havoc on any roof system.   Heat tape is needed in some areas but that's so expensive to operate.  My electrician friend told me he will only install  roof heat tape using a temp switch that turns the tape on at like 34f rain shine or snow.   He said people don't remember to turn it on and if you turn it on after an ice dam forms it can really cause a leak.  I installed some professional heat tape on one place on my roof and a downspout and if I recall it is 600 watts.  I have it on a switch.  But 600 watts left on for a month can really cost a lot.    

Tile roofs require quite skilled labor to install to do properly on any complicated roofs. 

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, Elkski said:

I have some friends in Utah who have a very large house with clay tiles. It is a complicated roof and they had many leaks  and the company that installed it wanted 60k USD to fix it.  We get ice dams here and that can wreak havoc on any roof system.   Heat tape is needed in some areas but that's so expensive to operate.  My electrician friend told me he will only install  roof heat tape using a temp switch that turns the tape on at like 34f rain shine or snow.   He said people don't remember to turn it on and if you turn it on after an ice dam forms it can really cause a leak.  I installed some professional heat tape on one place on my roof and a downspout and if I recall it is 600 watts.  I have it on a switch.  But 600 watts left on for a month can really cost a lot.    

Tile roofs require quite skilled labor to install to do properly on any complicated roofs. 

The tiles in the picture may be clay coloured but I'm pretty certain they are in fact concrete and of a type and style in wide use everywhere here.

[Kwasaki]

As a retired roofer I would say ( uk Pikey scam ) they are trying to get a nice days work out of you for doing next to nothing.

To give an exact assessment I would need to look at the roof.

[carlyai]

I have what looks like the same tiles on my house roof.

Mine are SCG (I think that's the company or tile manufacturer, could be CSG or similar, can't remember).

Say it's SCG. 

Then SCG have a brochure, written in Thai, on how to install their tiles; have a look on their Web site.

The brochure should show where to nail etc. Your roof could be installed like described in the brochure.

Or, as in my case, not as per the brochure, but it should give you an idea of the roof nailing and wiring.

As mine wasn't installed per the Thai brochure because ("we don't do it like that in Thailand"), with a bit of difficulty tiles could be removed.

 

 

 

[carlyai]

Found the brochure on their web site. ???? Hope they are concrete tiles.

[UTBoro]

11 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

The tiles in the picture may be clay coloured but I'm pretty certain they are in fact concrete and of a type and style in wide use everywhere here.

Yes they are concrete Nigel.

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, UTBoro said:

Yes they are concrete Nigel.

Then it's an easy enough job to lift them and take them out and replace them individually, subject to them being wired or pegged, which will require an interim step. As somebody else said earlier, sometimes only every third row is pegged or wired which makes things even easier. Once you have a hole by removing one, it's all straight forward.

 

Trying to cover all possibilities here: I'm curious to understand why so many tiles are broken in the same area, did something happen? Usually, individual tiles break because of pressure or impact but it's unusual to have many broken in the same area, unless of course a meteor struck :))

[UTBoro]

3 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Then it's an easy enough job to lift them and take them out and replace them individually, subject to them being wired or pegged, which will require an interim step. As somebody else said earlier, sometimes only every third row is pegged or wired which makes things even easier. Once you have a hole by removing one, it's all straight forward.

 

Trying to cover all possibilities here: I'm curious to understand why so many tiles are broken in the same area, did something happen? Usually, individual tiles break because of pressure or impact but it's unusual to have many broken in the same area, unless of course a meteor struck :))

I’m pretty sure the damage was caused by one of the spires that was originally attached to the gable end which you see on a lot on Thai style houses. I removed one last time we were home as it was obviously loose. In the last 3 years another one had come down. I find it hard to believe that the wind blew it down but the people who run the gated community where we live say it wasn’t them who took it down, so I’ll never know for sure. There’s a fair bit of weight in them so whether it was dropped by workmen or it fell it would certainly break a tile or 3.

Ive had a look into the loft space and the tiles are mounted onto metal(looks like aluminium)batons and appear to be screwed or nailed about every 5th row. So having seen this I’m hoping it’s a job I can do myself, my only concern is whether it will hold my weight. 

[nigelforbes]

18 minutes ago, UTBoro said:

I’m pretty sure the damage was caused by one of the spires that was originally attached to the gable end which you see on a lot on Thai style houses. I removed one last time we were home as it was obviously loose. In the last 3 years another one had come down. I find it hard to believe that the wind blew it down but the people who run the gated community where we live say it wasn’t them who took it down, so I’ll never know for sure. There’s a fair bit of weight in them so whether it was dropped by workmen or it fell it would certainly break a tile or 3.

Ive had a look into the loft space and the tiles are mounted onto metal(looks like aluminium)batons and appear to be screwed or nailed about every 5th row. So having seen this I’m hoping it’s a job I can do myself, my only concern is whether it will hold my weight. 

I'm 90kgs and walking on the roof is not a problem, interlocking concrete tiles make a strong platform. Try early morning, the tiles get very hot and hold heat until past midnight, wear gloves and good grip shoes, tiles sometimes sticky to get lose, eat spinach beforehand. ????

[UTBoro]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

I'm 90kgs and walking on the roof is not a problem, interlocking concrete tiles make a strong platform. Try early morning, the tiles get very hot and hold heat until past midnight, wear gloves and good grip shoes, tiles sometimes sticky to get lose, eat spinach beforehand. ????

Thanks Nigel, will do????????????

[transam]

Cement tiles, just get another bloke to get up there and replace any that are broken.................

[carlyai]

Lucky we have the strongest man in Isaan living next to us and he does jobs like holding bulls out to pee or lifting tiles.

2 people would be good. You as manager and Mr Thai (with strong fingers) to do the job.

You got enough spare tiles? The mob who did my roof couldn't count, so I've got 'big mobs' left over.

I worked 6 years with our Indigenous mob and they only count to 2, then 'big mobs'. 

Like, Me: "count the 100 cows over there".

Them: '1, 2, Big Mobs.' ????

Maybe wrong color?

[Rimmer]

If every tile is screwed to the battens the whole row has to come off, if as should happen only every other tile is screwed down in a triangle pattern the screws can be accessed and the the broken tiles lifted and replaced fairly easily.

 

If you dont want to remove and replace tiles Sika make a range of products that will seal any breaks, you can even use their black tape and then paint the tape to match using TOA roof paint about B400 for a small tin

 

https://tha.sika.com/en/construction/roof-systems/liquid-applied-membrane/sikalastic-501-roofsealplus.html

 

You could also if you want check with your local Home Mart store they should be able to give you the phone number of the CPac approved contractor in your area

[Kwasaki]

I smile at all the the fuss over a broken roof tile. 

If everyone tile is held down it would surprise me for Thailand.

 

Even if every tile is screwed or nailed you can still replace a single one by lifting others carefully without removing others.

 

If your OCD worried you can retain it with clips.

 

The only problem with some replacement tiles is when they are cemmented in at ridges, hips and valleys where more careful workmanship is required.