Roofing advice for DIY dummy!

[Toolong]

Hi to all who read this.

 

I'm having a separate little room built adjacent to my house.  Basic. One floor. Living room doubling as bedroom + bathroom. About 8×5 metres. (Bit of privacy from relations!) Basic, but I want it done in whatever way is best to avoid problems later.

 

I avidly read relevant posts on this site about DIY + construction and so on, and have learnt a great deal from other people's chats. But I'm now ashamed to say that I obviously haven't paid enough attention, as now I want to do a spot of building myself, I find myself needing to ask for advice on pretty basic stuff. 

 

So my first query (there'll be others ????) is about the roof. I plan on a flat, sloping roof with a nice generous overhang and with radiant barrier foil + insulation, soffit vents etc.

 

But clay tiles or metal (aluminium) sheet? (Actually....are they clay or concrete? I'm talking about the heavy, wavy-shaped tiles. ????)

Having zero rain leakage thru the roof is a big one for me, so if metal, I'd want it done really well. And which tends to have the potential to affect room temperatures more, clay/concrete or metal? 

 

(PS, I know I could probably google all this, but like I've said before, I'm so impressed by the level of knowledge & expertise from people on this site, especially those in Thailand. It beats google every time!)

 

????

 

 

 

 

[VinnieK]

 Clay tiles by far.

Easy to tell the clay from the cement ones if you look closely.

Finding a roofer who can install them ,  can be a challenge esp in the provinces 

 

[Stevemercer]

Clay tiles are much quieter in the rain. Should be easier to install and maintain (in the event of leaks). If you are out in the provinces, most builders/construction crews will have enough experience to put up a decent roof.

[Toolong]

1 hour ago, VinnieK said:

 Clay tiles by far.

Easy to tell the clay from the cement ones if you look closely.

Finding a roofer who can install them ,  can be a challenge esp in the provinces 

 

That's certainly a clear preference.  Do you mean 'by far' in terms of them being 'cooler', Vinnie? Or better able to prevent rainwater leaking in?

[Toolong]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

Clay tiles are much quieter in the rain. Should be easier to install and maintain (in the event of leaks). If you are out in the provinces, most builders/construction crews will have enough experience to put up a decent roof.

Interesting. You're the second person to be pro-clay. 

Regarding the noise in the rain, gotta be honest and say I'm one of those who not only doesn't mind the sound of rain on the roof, but often rather likes it....in a way! (Although the louder the noise is, the more easily I imagine leaks must surely start any moment....usually late at night!????)

[VinnieK]

1 hour ago, Toolong said:

That's certainly a clear preference.  Do you mean 'by far' in terms of them being 'cooler', Vinnie? Or better able to prevent rainwater leaking in?

Both.

[RocketDog]

47 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Both.

The kitchen attached to our house has a low slope roof. We battled leaks until I gave up on the clay tiles and had a steel roof added over them. I put fiberglass insulation between the two roofs. The inside ceiling had to be replaced from water damage so we put insulation between it and the underside of the clay tiles also.

 

It faces south south and got very hot in season. Now it's cool and definitely waterproof.

 

The clay tiles on the rest of the house don't leak, but are at a much greater slope.

 

If I need work done on the roof from now on I'll never use clay tiles again.

Soffit vents are a great idea but forget about that silly reflective paper nonsense. Soffit vents work best if the roof has a turbine or gable vent to allow full circulation from the soffits out the vent.

 

The fiberglass insulation has reflective mylar on both sides, and I used two layers for a total of R52 value. The cost of such insulation (~200฿/roll) is trivial compared to installation labor.

I'm very high on insulation. It never wears out, needs no batteries, and more than pays for itself in a year or two. Best investment you can make in Thailand.

[Toolong]

4 hours ago, VinnieK said:

Both.

Thought you might say that. ????

 

Thanks. ????

[Toolong]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

The kitchen attached to our house has a low slope roof. We battled leaks until I gave up on the clay tiles and had a steel roof added over them. I put fiberglass insulation between the two roofs. The inside ceiling had to be replaced from water damage so we put insulation between it and the underside of the clay tiles also.

 

It faces south south and got very hot in season. Now it's cool and definitely waterproof.

 

The clay tiles on the rest of the house don't leak, but are at a much greater slope.

 

If I need work done on the roof from now on I'll never use clay tiles again.

Soffit vents are a great idea but forget about that silly reflective paper nonsense. Soffit vents work best if the roof has a turbine or gable vent to allow full circulation from the soffits out the vent.

 

The fiberglass insulation has reflective mylar on both sides, and I used two layers for a total of R52 value. The cost of such insulation (~200฿/roll) is trivial compared to installation labor.

I'm very high on insulation. It never wears out, needs no batteries, and more than pays for itself in a year or two. Best investment you can make in Thailand.

Sorry for the delay in replying.

 

I find what you say very interesting. I have long been a fan of the idea of a kind of two roof thing. One above the other. Think they call that system a 'fly roof'....not sure.

But anyway have seen it used in interesting ways. I remember seeing a great picture of how it is/was employed by the Vietnamese in traditional village houses (Thais obviously never got into that, cos never seen it here). So simple and can't fail to be effective. In your case, you've adopted that system through sort of accidental circumstances. But what you say is a good endorsement of its value. 

 

So with clay tiles, you point towards a good steep slope being best. ????

 

What you also say about vents & soffits & turbines (spinning whirlybird things, right?) and insulation is good to know. Thanks for that.

 

It sounds as if you really decided to end your heat & leakage probs once and for all. Like you said, good investment.

 

???? Thanks RocketDog.

 

[Toolong]

2 minutes ago, Toolong said:

Sorry for the delay in replying.

 

I find what you say very interesting. I have long been a fan of the idea of a kind of two roof thing. One above the other. Think they call that system a 'fly roof'....not sure.

But anyway have seen it used in interesting ways. I remember seeing a great picture of how it is/was employed by the Vietnamese in traditional village houses (Thais obviously never got into that, cos never seen it here). So simple and can't fail to be effective. In your case, you've adopted that system through sort of accidental circumstances. But what you say is a good endorsement of its value. 

 

So with clay tiles, you point towards a good steep slope being best. ????

 

What you also say about vents & soffits & turbines (spinning whirlybird things, right?) and insulation is good to know. Thanks for that.

 

It sounds as if you really decided to end your heat & leakage probs once and for all. Like you said, good investment.

 

???? Thanks RocketDog.

 

Oh, by the way, you said 'steel roof'. Not aluminium? ????

[KhunLA]

Insulated (thick) BlueScope steel roof, and then can add rolls of insulation (37/38) on top of the ceiling.   Personally wouldn't bother with anything else.

 

Lighter, cheaper, less steel to support it, again less cost, and can't think of any negatives.  Can think of a few negatives with the alternatives.

Edited February 27, 2023 by KhunLA

[Toolong]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Insulated (thick) BlueScope steel roof, and then can add rolls of insulation (37/38) on top of the ceiling.   Personally wouldn't bother with anything else.

 

Lighter, cheaper, less steel to support it, again less cost, and can't think of any negatives.  Can think of a few negatives with the alternatives.

Thanks for that opinion, KhunLA. I can definitely see your points about lightness & economy of building materials. Makes sense. 

And thanks for being specific about which metal sheet type you'd go for. I will seek it out and have a look. ????????

[moontang]

The attic needs ventilation.. The ceiling decking needs insulation. If you can simply keep the attic near the outside temp., you are doing well.  An attic could be 170f if unvented.  Use reflective elastomeric coatings for near flat roofs.. 

[Toolong]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

The attic needs ventilation.. The ceiling decking needs insulation. If you can simply keep the attic near the outside temp., you are doing well.  An attic could be 170f if unvented.  Use reflective elastomeric coatings for near flat roofs.. 

Thanks for that, moontang. Interesting. ????

Yes, I do plan to vent & insulate as much as possible. Interesting what you say about the reflective elastomeric coatings. I shall try and find out more about that. Do you mean on metal sheet roofing? And, is it something that has to be applied separately or do certain brands already have it? ????

 

 

[RocketDog]

12 hours ago, Toolong said:

Oh, by the way, you said 'steel roof'. Not aluminium? ????

It is sheet steel but powder coat painted for weather durability.

Frankly I prefer painted steel. We live near the coast and salt air eats aluminum, turning it into white powder. Aluminum will be a lot more expensive as well.

I think these are referred to as flying roofs because they cut a hole in the clay tiles and welded a steel frame above the tiles a few inches to support the steel roofing. I asked for a bit more headroom to insert the insulation.

 

Good luck.

[moontang]

Typically, it would be on OSB, which you don't see in LOS.  I was looking about a year ago, but have since sold the house. There are some new products out there that are peek and stick, that were traditionally applied with a "hot mop ". I'll find some links and add them I saw them doing a roof in Colombia last week .they were pulling the 20 ft long 4 feet wide sheets directly out of a Maersk shipping container in a flatbed. Likely from china.

[moontang]

Typically, it would be on OSB, which you don't see in LOS.  I was looking about a year ago, but have since sold the house. There are some new products out there that are peek and stick, that were traditionally applied with a "hot mop ". I'll find some links and add them I saw them doing a roof in Colombia last week .they were pulling the 20 ft long 4 feet wide sheets directly out of a Maersk shipping container in a flatbed. Likely from china.

[moontang]

Typically, it would be on OSB, which you don't see in LOS.  I was looking about a year ago, but have since sold the house. There are some new products out there that are peek and stick, that were traditionally applied with a "hot mop ". I'll find some links and add them I saw them doing a roof in Colombia last week .they were pulling the 20 ft long 4 feet wide sheets directly out of a Maersk shipping container in a flatbed. Likely from china.

[moontang]

https://www.gaf.com/en-us/roofing-products/residential-roofing-products/residential-roll-roofing

[CharlieH]

DIY Forum !

 

MOVED

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:07 AM, Toolong said:

Oh, by the way, you said 'steel roof'. Not aluminium? ????

Don't use steel- it rusts, eventually.

 

If you are not an experienced DIY guy don't do it yourself, but if you do attempt it, secure yourself so you don't break your neck when you fall off or go through the roof.

Heavy tiles require a strong structure ( expensive and probably requires welding ), aluminium does not. Tiles leak, aluminium does not, steel rusts, aluminium does not, just don't walk on it.

 

Personally I'd never go near tiles, and done loads of steel roofs, but that was in a cooler, less humid environment, and they all rust unless painted  ( or coated ).

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:14 PM, RocketDog said:

It is sheet steel but powder coat painted for weather durability.

Frankly I prefer painted steel. We live near the coast and salt air eats aluminum, turning it into white powder. Aluminum will be a lot more expensive as well.

I think these are referred to as flying roofs because they cut a hole in the clay tiles and welded a steel frame above the tiles a few inches to support the steel roofing. I asked for a bit more headroom to insert the insulation.

 

Good luck.

Thank you for informing me about aluminium drawbacks in coastal area. I have no experience of that, not building on the coast.

Something for the OP to consider. I like steel as can walk on it. I hate that cement sheet roofing they use in LOS as I can't walk on it. I had a leak I couldn't reach to fix and my wife was too scared to walk on it too.

[Toolong]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:14 AM, RocketDog said:

It is sheet steel but powder coat painted for weather durability.

Frankly I prefer painted steel. We live near the coast and salt air eats aluminum, turning it into white powder. Aluminum will be a lot more expensive as well.

I think these are referred to as flying roofs because they cut a hole in the clay tiles and welded a steel frame above the tiles a few inches to support the steel roofing. I asked for a bit more headroom to insert the insulation.

 

Good luck.

Ah, I see.

 

Just to mention, I have seen advertised a kind of thickish, rough-finish paint-on or spray-on gloopy looking 'stuff' that is applied to metal roofs to act as a heat barrier (and maybe also acts as extra waterproofing). It wasn't that attractive to look it at but if, as in my case, nobody will see the roof, no problem. Substance over style! Might look into it.

 

Yes, oddly enough I did, only a few days ago, see a service advertised for that 'flying roof' and was pleased to see it, because it kind of vindicated my long-held thought that it's a great idea which ought to be more widely used or considered. (Though I know many might think it unnecessay. If so, fair enough.)

 

Cheers. ????

[sometimewoodworker]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't use steel- it rusts, eventually.

Absolutely, our steel roof is only guaranteed for 30 years????

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

steel rusts, aluminium does not

Wrong. Aluminium rust faster than the majority of metals. However in most conditions the rust is stable, not though in salty conditions near the sea. If aluminium were such a good material you would see it used extensively in seagoing vessels and salt water installations. Do you? Almost never.

 

The metal most used is steel.

Edited March 1, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[Toolong]

22 hours ago, moontang said:

Typically, it would be on OSB, which you don't see in LOS.  I was looking about a year ago, but have since sold the house. There are some new products out there that are peek and stick, that were traditionally applied with a "hot mop ". I'll find some links and add them I saw them doing a roof in Colombia last week .they were pulling the 20 ft long 4 feet wide sheets directly out of a Maersk shipping container in a flatbed. Likely from china.

Interesting, moontang. Thanks. I'm currently in the process of seeing what's on the market for that kind of thing. I tend to get a lot of blank looks or 'Mai Mee'. (A bit rural around here!)

 

But the search is on! ????

 

Cheers!

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Absolutely, our steel roof is only guaranteed for 30 years????

Wrong. Aluminium rust faster than the majority of metals. However in most conditions the rust is stable, not though in salty conditions near the sea. If aluminium were such a good material you would see it used extensively in seagoing vessels and salt water installations. Do you? Almost never.

 

The metal most used is steel.

I'm pretty sure aluminium has been used in sea going yachts, but I'm not disagreeing with you.

[Toolong]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't use steel- it rusts, eventually.

 

If you are not an experienced DIY guy don't do it yourself, but if you do attempt it, secure yourself so you don't break your neck when you fall off or go through the roof.

Heavy tiles require a strong structure ( expensive and probably requires welding ), aluminium does not. Tiles leak, aluminium does not, steel rusts, aluminium does not, just don't walk on it.

 

Personally I'd never go near tiles, and done loads of steel roofs, but that was in a cooler, less humid environment, and they all rust unless painted  ( or coated ).

Yes, I thank you for your comment about steel vs aluminium & their drawbacks & merits. 

Another poster did mention powder-coated steel and I would hope that that might prevent rust issues, especially if it's really good quality, etc. But, you do make a good case for aluminium! ????

 

Yes, know what you mean about walking on aluminium! Tricky! But I have managed to avoid damage by using boards put across it, wearing soft shoes, and being dead careful!

 

Cheers. ????

[Toolong]

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thank you for informing me about aluminium drawbacks in coastal area. I have no experience of that, not building on the coast.

Something for the OP to consider. I like steel as can walk on it. I hate that cement sheet roofing they use in LOS as I can't walk on it. I had a leak I couldn't reach to fix and my wife was too scared to walk on it too.

Know what you mean about not wanting to walk on that particular roofing but just to suggest :  perfectly flat, light but sturdy boards placed on the roof can allow you walk to sort ot problems, but must be surefooted & careful. Helps if you're not too heavy! ????

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Toolong said:

Yes, I thank you for your comment about steel vs aluminium & their drawbacks & merits. 

Another poster did mention powder-coated steel and I would hope that that might prevent rust issues, especially if it's really good quality, etc. But, you do make a good case for aluminium! ????

 

Yes, know what you mean about walking on aluminium! Tricky! But I have managed to avoid damage by using boards put across it, wearing soft shoes, and being dead careful!

 

Cheers. ????

Always walk where the roof is supported too, but that applies to steel as well. I was so heavy back then ( I lost a lot of weight since ) that I'd probably have gone through a cement tile roof!

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm pretty sure aluminium has been used in sea going yachts, but I'm not disagreeing with you.

It is but only in smaller vessels and much more commonly found in smaller freshwater craft