PEA found out meter is spinning backward

[eddysacc]

In my case they send out a ordinary PEA member the next day to check the circumstance.

 Maybe its time to stop exporting for a few days?

 

 

[The Fugitive]

54 minutes ago, sidgy said:

Hoping we have not been caught out, meter has Always been read on the 5th of the month, so usually ensure we using more than producing but this week i found the bill in the postbox on late afternoon on the 4th !!!

Totally unsatisfactory situation. You are worrying about having gone 'green'. PEA/MEA need to think more clearly. Reversing your meter thus producing a credit balance upon your electricity account is their nightmare. The solution would be that all excess juice produced by your panels gets fed into the National Grid and you, quite rightly, receive Feed In Tariff for it. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by The Fugitive

[farmerjo]

I would imagine there is a reason for cracking down on this.

Could it be to do with to much variance in the local transformers?

[Crossy]

41 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Totally unsatisfactory situation. You are worrying about having gone 'green'. PEA/MEA need to think more clearly. Reversing your meter thus producing a credit balance upon your electricity account is their nightmare. The solution would be that all excess juice produced by your panels gets fed into the National Grid and you, quite rightly, receive Feed In Tariff for it. 

 

There is FiT available.

BUT

It's not exactly easy to get on to (and one member has been waiting >2 years for his FiT meter), and a DIY system won't fly, need to use an approved installer and approved kit. Doing so will easily multiply your payback time by 4 ???? 

 

That being the case go hybrid with ESS (batteries) and have the advantage of never having a power cut, ever.

[sidgy]

28 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Totally unsatisfactory situation. You are worrying about having gone 'green'. PEA/MEA need to think more clearly. Reversing your meter thus producing a credit balance upon your electricity account is their nightmare. The solution would be that all excess juice produced by your panels gets fed into the National Grid and you, quite rightly, receive Feed In Tariff for it. 

To be fair, i totally understood the risk before installing my panels and will reach a ROI this year so not the end of the world for me. PEA/MEA do need to make money, but yes, for a greener future, they need to look at their policies WRT home solar instalations

[The Fugitive]

36 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

I would imagine there is a reason for cracking down on this.

Could it be to do with to much variance in the local transformers?

Not being an electrical engineer myself I don't fully understand. Are you referring to the situation in Australia where the supply becomes unstable due to the number of 'micro power stations' feeding into the National Grid affecting the flywheel effect of their power stations?

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, sidgy said:

To be fair, i totally understood the risk before installing my panels and will reach a ROI this year so not the end of the world for me. PEA/MEA do need to make money, but yes, for a greener future, they need to look at their policies WRT home solar installations

 

The problem for MEA/PEA is where to draw the DIY line.

 

They can't let just any old Chinese junk to feed energy into the grid, plus they need to know that the island-protection works correctly and reliably.

 

HMHO DIY to a decent standard using approved kit (subject to an inspection) should be permitted, but the licenced contractors would be up in arms as their income would be shafted.

 

Both our inverters are approved and my install is "reasonable".

[Muhendis]

2 minutes ago, sidgy said:

To be fair, i totally understood the risk before installing my panels and will reach a ROI this year so not the end of the world for me. PEA/MEA do need to make money, but yes, for a greener future, they need to look at their policies WRT home solar instalations

Note in another thread that many commercial users are installing solar to reduce energy bills from PEA.

Can you imagine what will happen when all electricity is from individual solar installations?

PEA will be trying to supply electricity to ........ well......... nobody.

Another scenario is that if every solar home were to export their excess power then what would happen to the grid voltage?

[Muhendis]

Just now, Crossy said:

They can't let just any old Chinese junk

I like your pun.

[Crossy]

Just now, Muhendis said:

Note in another thread that many commercial users are installing solar to reduce energy bills from PEA.

Can you imagine what will happen when all electricity is from individual solar installations?

PEA will be trying to supply electricity to ........ well......... nobody.

Another scenario is that if every solar home were to export their excess power then what would happen to the grid voltage?

 

Grid-stability is a big issue for places with a massive installed base of domestic solar (Aus for example).

[MJCM]

1 hour ago, sidgy said:

Hoping we have not been caught out, meter has Always been read on the 5th of the month, so usually ensure we using more than producing but this week i found the bill in the postbox on late afternoon on the 4th !!!

 

????????????????

 

What time does it say on the bill that the meter was read?

[Muhendis]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Grid-stability is a big issue for places with a massive installed base of domestic solar (Aus for example).

Yeah they use wireless controlled relays to control household power export. I think you probably are aware of this in your Sofar inverter.

[JBChiangRai]

I think I read somewhere that the government do want the populous to embrace solar power.  As usual, they just mire the whole thing up in red tape, which encourages fraud and illegal activity, so that it becomes difficult to comply.  I should imagine it’s very difficult for an installer to get approved without greasing palms, hence the ridiculous price quoted by approved suppliers.

 

If your inverter is approved, I can’t see how you could connect it in such a way that it would damage the PEA system or shock the lineman working on the cables in a power cut.

[Crossy]

Just now, Muhendis said:

Yeah they use wireless controlled relays to control household power export. I think you probably are aware of this in your Sofar inverter.

 

Yup. And a number of my Aussie mates are more than mildly miffed about it. Many are moving to local storage which (currently) isn't controlled by The Man.

[Muhendis]

12 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yup. And a number of my Aussie mates are more than mildly miffed about it. Many are moving to local storage which (currently) isn't controlled by The Man.

I don't blame them either. With the control steps in 25% increments I would wonder if my home domestic use would also be impacted.

[farmerjo]

17 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Not being an electrical engineer myself I don't fully understand. Are you referring to the situation in Australia where the supply becomes unstable due to the number of 'micro power stations' feeding into the National Grid affecting the flywheel effect of their power stations?

I don't know hence why i was asking.(about Thailand)

But think it's been mentioned it may destabilize the grid.

I mentioned in another thread how i visited a biogas plant not far from home,been built 6 years and has MOU with PEA,but still not commissioned 

Sorry not trying to hijack the thread but understand why.

 

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

I mentioned in another thread how i visited a biogas plant not far from home,been built 6 years and has MOU with PEA,but still not commissioned

 

One would assume it uses rotating machines so ought to add to grid stability. But TiT ...

 

We came within an ace of having a waste-to-energy plant built just down the road, local protests scuppered that one, for now!

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

That being the case go hybrid with ESS (batteries) and have the advantage of never having a power cut, ever.

 

There are an increasing number of on/off-grid battery-less hybrids that will work as grid-tie until PEA come along with the no-reverse meter at which point you shell for battery storage and tell PEA where to shove it ???? 

 

If they had been available when we installed, I would very possibly have gone that way.

[Eff1n2ret]

16 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yes. Very good point, we have had reports that digital meters have been charging for exported energy as well as import!

Certainly happened to us. We had a 3kw system installed, and I couldn't understand after the first few months why our bills didn't go down at all. I got the installers back, and it was only then that they noticed that we were on a digital meter, which was fitted a few years before when a lightning strike toasted the original meter. There was a big pow-wow with PEA, lots of people milling around in the road, and eventually they changed back to a wheelie meter, paid for by the installer who admitted that they hadn't checked this when they did the original installation. In the meantime before the change back I noticed that on very sunny days the meter reading seemed to increase.

[MJCM]

@eddysacc

 

any updates

[eddysacc]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:41 PM, MJCM said:

@eddysacc

 

any updates

Quick Update what happened recently.

 

We got the first energy bill for the Import/Export Digital meter and they are charging only imported units. The few exported units are not being charged.

 

(The meter reader guy did not know how to read the meter so it took almost 4 weeks to get the bill)

 

Furthermore I made contact with the engineer responsible for permitting solar systems from.the local PEA office and... there is no system to register solar farms at the moment.

But he added it will be possible soon probably this year.

So that's a good news if that would be true. Hands down.

 

As I understand he will come to my house and check if the solar system is in check and that for no or no hight cost (whatever that means)

 

So now is waiting time. I am.definetly aiming to get a permit to export to the grid and get the 2.2 baht/unit or what it will be.

 

 

 

[eddysacc]

What I should to do, I assume, is checking if my solar farm checks all the requirements from the PEA.

 

Thanks to crossy I checked the inverter list already. And my inverter is on that list.

 

The engineer clearly stated that for 1 Phase house connections there is a limit of 5000w per meter.

I got 8x 450w panels at the moment and would upgrade to 11x 450w panels = 4950w before applying.

 

What about safety features of the solar farm? Is there a handbook with all.the requirements from.the PEA/MEA?

 

Any advice?

[The Fugitive]

57 minutes ago, eddysacc said:

Quick Update what happened recently.

 

We got the first energy bill for the Import/Export Digital meter and they are charging only imported units. The few exported units are not being charged.

 

(The meter reader guy did not know how to read the meter so it took almost 4 weeks to get the bill)

 

Furthermore I made contact with the engineer responsible for permitting solar systems from.the local PEA office and... there is no system to register solar farms at the moment.

But he added it will be possible soon probably this year.

So that's a good news if that would be true. Hands down.

 

As I understand he will come to my house and check if the solar system is in check and that for no or no hight cost (whatever that means)

 

So now is waiting time. I am.definetly aiming to get a permit to export to the grid and get the 2.2 baht/unit or what it will be.

Great developments! Thanks for letting us know. 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, eddysacc said:

What about safety features of the solar farm? Is there a handbook with all.the requirements from. The PEA/MEA?

 

For domestic level kit it's just the normal grid-island protection built-in to an approved inverter plus surge suppression, proper grounding arrangements and Type-B RCDs. Check out the PEA website, there's a bunch of stuff there, in Thai of course.

 

If you go large, then there's a whole new world of hurt!

 

Do let us know how you get on, if PEA/MEA are actually making life easier to get on the export wagon that's really good news.

[h90]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:21 PM, Muhendis said:

Note in another thread that many commercial users are installing solar to reduce energy bills from PEA.

Can you imagine what will happen when all electricity is from individual solar installations?

PEA will be trying to supply electricity to ........ well......... nobody.

Another scenario is that if every solar home were to export their excess power then what would happen to the grid voltage?

Yes and from having too much electric, and as soon as the evening comes or some large clouds far too less and some coal power plant need hours to ramp up. That is horrible....

[The Fugitive]

12 minutes ago, h90 said:

Yes and from having too much electric, and as soon as the evening comes or some large clouds far too less and some coal power plant need hours to ramp up. That is horrible....

As electricity becomes free for some (after initial outlay) demand will increase. Air conditioners are becoming cheaper, therefore more numerous and run for longer or even continuously. Then there is charging of electric vehicles. How quickly will battery technology develop? Tidal, geo-thermal and even wind turbines would be the ideal to cover the hours of darkness, but at what cost? 

[chalawaan]

On 3/6/2023 at 1:11 AM, Crossy said:

 

Yes. Very good point, we have had reports that digital meters have been charging for exported energy as well as import!

Amazing Thailand, not only is there two tier pricing, and restrictions on earning an honest wage, or mutually beneficial start ups, now we pay to give electricity away!

 

 

[007 RED]

On 4/13/2023 at 4:49 PM, eddysacc said:

What I should to do, I assume, is checking if my solar farm checks all the requirements from the PEA.

 

Thanks to crossy I checked the inverter list already. And my inverter is on that list.

 

The engineer clearly stated that for 1 Phase house connections there is a limit of 5000w per meter.

I got 8x 450w panels at the moment and would upgrade to 11x 450w panels = 4950w before applying.

 

What about safety features of the solar farm? Is there a handbook with all.the requirements from.the PEA/MEA?

 

Any advice?

@eddysacc  FYI.....  I've attached below an unofficial translation of the so called ERC Rules & Regulations on Thailand's Solar Rooftop Programme. 

 

Good bed time reading and will give you a good insight into what is required in order to get MEA/PEA approval to feed into the grid.

 

The real nitty gritty stuff relating to 'hardware' is contained in Annex 5, which is from about page 49 onwards.  The preceding pages deal with the basic application/approval process.

 

As you will already be aware, the inverter must be on the MEA/PEA approved list, but unfortunately that's not the end of the story.  Your panels and wiring must also meet the required MEA/PEA standards.  If you are having the PVs mounted on your roof, you will need to have a licenced structural engineer certify that the roof will not collapse under the additional weight of the panels etc and that the proposed panel mounting structure will hold the panels in wind etc.  You will then need to employ an approved (MEA/PEA) installer to actually do the installation.  The installer must hold the of a minimum of a Batchelor Degree and be a licenced electrical engineer.  The person supervising the installation must also be a certified electrical technician and must be onsite throughout the installation process.  Once the installation is completed, the installer will arrange for an engineer from the Council of Engineers to come and inspect the installation.

 

As you can imagine all these requirements will come at a cost (+++), above the cost of the hardware.  Hence the reason why having a professional installation done is so expensive.

 

As I think @Crossy has already mentioned, if your installation was a DIY job there is very little chance of you getting MEA/PEA approval to feedback into the grid.

 

Best of luck.

20130918_giz_translation_solar_rooftop.pdf

[UWEB]

I just have started the PEA Registration Process for my new System, my Installer is doing all. Costs are 20.000 THB and will take around 3-4 month time.

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, UWEB said:

I just have started the PEA Registration Process for my new System, my Installer is doing all. Costs are 20.000 THB and will take around 3-4 month time.

Interesting thank you! Am I correct in thinking that your installer is not 'approved' by PEA but, in view of the upcoming changes already mentioned in this thread, can ensure that your system is acceptable to the PEA and thus qualifies for FIT payments? Their fee for this service being 20,000 baht?