100,000 pages of evidence in 40 boxes - Big Joke prepares cases against 116 corrupt immigration men - offices named

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, hkt83100 said:

The going rate is somewhere by between 300 and 500 Baht for a service which is officially free.

Free if you ask nicely. 

They don't give a receipt if they charge rip you off.

[proton]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I don't think so, not if they are breaking the law. Would they really want exposure?

The big agents don't advertise anymore, for obvious reasons, they do all their business through LINE or Messenger. 

Also, agents are totally unregulated, anyone can call themselves an agent, just need to know where to find corrupt officials. Do these agents pay tax, do the officials accepting these 'legal' payments?

[proton]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Discretion is not up to the IO themselves, but the IO in charge of the immigration unit and why sometimes they take your paperwork to that desk to have it reviewed.

And to count the bribe money in the envelope!

[itsari]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why ? Getting everyone legal would mean that it is easier for those law-abiding persons. 

Thailand is one of the easiest countries in the world to get a long term visa legally, those who cheat the system are not good for the image of farnag here. 

Not good for the image of  foreigners living in Thailand ?

There would be less money circulating in the Thai economy for a start if your idea of what is legal should be eradicated. 

Easier to get your 12 month extension ? I doubt that very much.

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, hkt83100 said:

Now I would like to know which of the remaining "clean" offices is handing the confirmation of residence for free. The going rate is somewhere by between 300 and 500 Baht for a service which is officially free. Or is it a computer crime to ask questions like this?

In the SiSaKet Imm Office a Residence Certificate is provided free of charge. (as it should be).

[Andrew Dwyer]

4 hours ago, hkt83100 said:

Now I would like to know which of the remaining "clean" offices is handing the confirmation of residence for free. The going rate is somewhere by between 300 and 500 Baht for a service which is officially free. Or is it a computer crime to ask questions like this?

Free at Ayutthaya Immigration office and issued on the spot.

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, itsari said:

Not good for the image of  foreigners living in Thailand ?

There would be less money circulating in the Thai economy for a start if your idea of what is legal should be eradicated. 

Easier to get your 12 month extension ? I doubt that very much.

Of course.

Nonsense, the immigration requirements would be easier if we did away with agents.

The fraudsters are ones who don't have any money. 

Mark my words, they will soon ask that the funds remain in the bank permanently.

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course.

Nonsense, the immigration requirements would be easier if we did away with agents.

The fraudsters are ones who don't have any money. 

Mark my words, they will soon ask that the funds remain in the bank permanently.

Don't have money?

They must have money to live here and pay the agent fees .

No agents will make it easier ?

I doubt that Sir.

 

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, itsari said:

Don't have money?

They must have money to live here and pay the agent fees .

No agents will make it easier ?

I doubt that Sir.

 

They can't afford to PUT 800k baht, so therefore after they pay the 20k baht bribe, they will have very little left. 

[Blumpie]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:03 AM, transam said:

In the past, we have had members quoting the same stuff, but nothing has changed....

Hey I hope so.  It seems like Thailand is changing into an anti corruption country which we all know is a smokescreen for what really goes on and will continue to go on.  My point is they love to hang foreigners out to dry.  

[itsari]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

They can't afford to PUT 800k baht, so therefore after they pay the 20k baht bribe, they will have very little left. 

Can't afford? There could be many reasons why a visa applicant will use the service of a agency. 

The service fee is for the agency's professional services. How on earth do you distort the fee as being a bribe ? 

The fee is a transaction between the applicant and the agency therefore there is no wrong doing by the visa applicant . 

Have you any evidence of a visa applicant being successfully prosecuted for bribery in Thailand ?

If the applicant has no money left after paying the agreed sum then that is there choice and certainly has no bearing on anyone else including you.

 

 

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, itsari said:

Can't afford? There could be many reasons why a visa applicant will use the service of a agency. 

The service fee is for the agency's professional services. How on earth do you distort the fee as being a bribe ? 

The fee is a transaction between the applicant and the agency therefore there is no wrong doing by the visa applicant . 

Have you any evidence of a visa applicant being successfully prosecuted for bribery in Thailand ?

If the applicant has no money left after paying the agreed sum then that is there choice and certainly has no bearing on anyone else including you.

 

 

You know as much I know, if Thailand is serious about cleaning up the corruption, those who can not meet the requirements for legal stay, will have trouble one way or the other. It is not like they are going to fix 800k just like that if they did not managed before. I do not  believe someone who can  not meet the requirements is able to save 800k in a year, so better start saving now. 

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You know as much I know, if Thailand is serious about cleaning up the corruption, those who can not meet the requirements for legal stay, will have trouble one way or the other. It is not like they are going to fix 800k just like that if they did not managed before. I do not  believe someone who can  not meet the requirements is able to save 800k in a year, so better start saving now. 

What you know I have no idea and have no wish to comment.

Using a agent is not corruption.

 

[Hummin]

14 minutes ago, itsari said:

What you know I have no idea and have no wish to comment.

Using a agent is not corruption.

 

Dream on, if you cant meet the requirements for legal stay, what do you call it, if you pay someone to fix it for you? 

 

 

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Dream on, if you cant meet the requirements for legal stay, what do you call it, if you pay someone to fix it for you? 

 

 

If you paid a immigration officer a fee directly the applicant is in a grey area 

Pay an agent then there is no comeback for any wrong doing .

If there is any wrong doing it would be between the agent and immigration , not the applicant . I have not heard of a prosecution of a agent or immigration officer , have you ?

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, itsari said:

If you paid a immigration officer a fee directly the applicant is in a grey area 

Pay an agent then there is no comeback for any wrong doing .

If there is any wrong doing it would be between the agent and immigration , not the applicant . I have not heard of a prosecution of a agent or immigration officer , have you ?

Still, you do not meet the requirements, and you have to be a bit stupid to deny it is corruption by you if you pay an agent to fix a lost case

[itsari]

Just now, Hummin said:

Still, you do not meet the requirements, and you have to be a bit stupid to deny it is corruption by you if you pay an agent to fix a lost case

If there has been no conversation for fixing as you call it how can it be corrupt ?

The Thai immigration has set a precedent for allowing the practice to continue for decades .

If I am stupid or not has nothing to do with the facts.

[Daithi85]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Of course.

Nonsense, the immigration requirements would be easier if we did away with agents.

The fraudsters are ones who don't have any money. 

Mark my words, they will soon ask that the funds remain in the bank permanently.

Get over yourself buddy.

Your going to be be very disappointed because ain't nothing going to change.

 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, mokwit said:

If you mean TM30 I would guess that agents are using the same address for multiple visa holders. You would be paying for address rental/facilitation of your upcountry visa when you live in BKK/Pattaya. You may have problems - this may be why the TM30 is under so much scrutiny, and proving the address exists and you really live there is required.

I suspect he actually means a Certificate of Residence. 

[glegolo18]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:00 AM, dinsdale said:

Well there will be a lot of people who do not have the required amount of money for retirement or marriage visas in a tight spot. Please no replies saying they should have the money or they should go home. We do not know others situations. The point is their situation may now have become tenuous.

Why no replies about "no money - no stay"??? That is the fact among so many foreigners completely disregard the law and the conditions of their stay here in Thailand. Abide the law or GO HOME.......

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, itsari said:

If you paid a immigration officer a fee directly the applicant is in a grey area 

Pay an agent then there is no comeback for any wrong doing .

If there is any wrong doing it would be between the agent and immigration , not the applicant . I have not heard of a prosecution of a agent or immigration officer , have you ?

# You wrote: If there is any wrong doing it would be between the agent and immigration , not the applicant. That's only partially correct. Indeed the Imm Officer accepting and the Agent handing out the bribe, are guilty of corruption. 

The applicant will of course plead 'ignorance' claiming that he was not aware that the Agent which he engaged was bribing Immigration for his application, and it is correct that he will not be charged for partaking in the corruption.

But that does not mean that there are no consequences for the applicant, because as a result of his Visa/extension being acquired in a non-legal way it is invalid.  And so he will face the consequences of 'being caught in Thailand without a valid permission to stay'.  And the penalty he will receive, will depend on how long he was already staying in Thailand without such valid permit.

# You wrote: I have not heard of a prosecution of a agent or immigration officer , have you ?  I know of at least one case some years ago where Immigration officers that were exposed as being on the take after an internal Immigration investigation, were fired and prosecuted for corruption (but I don't know the sentences which they received). And the Agents that bribed them have been stripped of their licenses to operate (but I don't know if they have been prosecuted).

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, itsari said:

If there has been no conversation for fixing as you call it how can it be corrupt ?

The Thai immigration has set a precedent for allowing the practice to continue for decades .

If I am stupid or not has nothing to do with the facts.

It is correct that Thai Immigration has condoned the practice to continue for decades.  But that doesn't make it legal. And occasionally a precedent has to be set to show-case that they are not allowing corruption. Those cases are often triggered as a result of internal Immigration strife/jealousy, or when some Officers become too greedy, or are not providing the 'fair share' of their shenanigans to higher-ups. 

But the point is of course that applicants that got an 'invalid' Permit to stay, because the Agent they used bribed an Imm Officer to overlook that the requirements for providing the Permit were not met, can - and have been in the past - become collateral damage in such an internal Immigration clean-up exercise. 

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, glegolo18 said:

Why no replies about "no money - no stay"??? That is the fact among so many foreigners completely disregard the law and the conditions of their stay here in Thailand. Abide the law or GO HOME.......

Says the"newbie"!! ????

[IvorBiggun2]

28 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The applicant will of course plead 'ignorance' claiming that he was not aware that the Agent which he engaged was bribing Immigration for his application, and it is correct that he will not be charged for partaking in the corruption.

'Ignorance' is not an excuse in the eyes of the law.

 

Quote

 

In law, ignorantia juris non excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not"),^[1] or ignorantia legis neminem excusat ("ignorance of law excuses no one"),^[2] is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely by being unaware of its content.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

[IvorBiggun2]

7 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Says the"newbie"!! ????

Wasn't you a 'newbie' once upon a time? 

[Andre0720]

"dereliction of duty as well as receiving cash directly. "

 

Could not lie now could he.....

[ThailandRyan]

4 hours ago, itsari said:

If there has been no conversation for fixing as you call it how can it be corrupt ?

The Thai immigration has set a precedent for allowing the practice to continue for decades .

If I am stupid or not has nothing to do with the facts.

You said in a previous post the person using the agent was in a grey area.  The issue is this, if the IO is found to have issued the visa/extension of stay contrary to the requirements needed, then someone above that IO and within immigration can void that visa/extension of stay......illegally obtained visas/extensions of stays which were given on falsified requirements or someone turning a blind eye is still illegal.  The person may not be seen as complicit in this but for sure if Immigration wishes they can void the stamp in the passport and make the person leave and re-enter the country after obtaining the Visa the right way and then they can obtain the extension provided they meet the requirements.  I have no issues for those using an agent that meet the requirements it the issue of the stamps being given to those not meeting said requirements.  I agree with the money in the bank method being ridiculous.  When obtaining the O-A visa or O visa from an embassy or consulate in your own country, you still need to show your bank account information from your country, but then that's not accepted here, but a monthly transfer of either 40k Thb if married, or 65kThb if retired is, yet some folks do not meet that requirement and need to have the money in the bank to show they can afford to live here, that's what this is truly all about.  For some its the issue of health insurance not being obtained for their visa (O-A) and why back in 2019 and 2020 there were many OPs discussing folks leaving the country to kill off the O-A visa, entering exempt and the obtaining an O Visa in country and then the extension of stay.  Technically you can not kill off one visa and convert to another class without leaving the country, but some agents are able to get it done, again it is not above board.  Why is it so hard for you to understand the legality versus illegality of this.

[bamnutsak]

Still inetersting that Big Joke pushed this case over to the NACC, instead of to prosecutors.

 

This will die at the NACC.

 

And many (most?) of these "men" worked in Immigration when Big Joke led that "organization".

 

But we'll be told by the fan bois that Big Joke turned Immigration into a pristine landscape free of corruption. Yet just a few years later it turned into a quagmire of corruption. Obviously he did not instill much integrity or honesty.

 

A cover-up in plain sight. The "government" is very brazen, but they know that no one will challenge them.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by bamnutsak

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Wasn't you a 'newbie' once upon a time? 

Seems you have a short memory! Glegolo,s been reborn.

[itsari]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

It is correct that Thai Immigration has condoned the practice to continue for decades.  But that doesn't make it legal. And occasionally a precedent has to be set to show-case that they are not allowing corruption. Those cases are often triggered as a result of internal Immigration strife/jealousy, or when some Officers become too greedy, or are not providing the 'fair share' of their shenanigans to higher-ups. 

But the point is of course that applicants that got an 'invalid' Permit to stay, because the Agent they used bribed an Imm Officer to overlook that the requirements for providing the Permit were not met, can - and have been in the past - become collateral damage in such an internal Immigration clean-up exercise. 

A  law can become unenforceable by a long habit of non enforcement or lapse of time .

The legal word is desuetude that would cover the fact that the immigration police have not convicted anyone in at least 20 years at least .

You mentioned that you seem to remember a case where a immigration officer was convicted . I have searched and unable to find the case . Perhaps you can help find it.