'We're asking for help to bring our boy home to Manchester so he's not alone as he fights for his life'

[still kicking]

59 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

How about making it easy for all us knowitalls queuing up at Thai airport inbound immigration and just don't let these people board their flight to paradise in the first place?

 

No insurance, no flight.

Not that easy just read a report about 9 months old baby who was infected with a live threatening disease in Bali and could not get any help in Bali and had to be flown to Australia so in that case I support public donations 

[Bday Prang]

22 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

I have read some other articles about similar incidents, one of which had insurance but claim was being held up, denied, investigated etc.  If one is found DUI the insurance company may not pay up.  Not wearing a helmet, may not pay up.  I question the veracity of any temporary insurance.  Man companies advertise a lot, take money, but actually getting a claim paid or paid promptly is a big issue. 

I would go as far as to say most insurance and especially travel insurance is an out and out scam, These companies will do anything to avoid paying out.  Then again I can imagine they get besieged with many fraudulent claims too.   A vicious circle 

[gk10012001]

2 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I would go as far as to say most insurance and especially travel insurance is an out and out scam, These companies will do anything to avoid paying out.  Then again I can imagine they get besieged with many fraudulent claims too.   A vicious circle 

I agree.  And if one actually reads all the fine print, you will very rarely find a company that will direct pay the hospital.  Most, when it even happens may reimburse you.  And that is quite a long time after you submitted the claim.  That won't help your hospital bill and they may still not let your out of the hospital.

[Stargeezr]

The British family could get an airline ticket and go to Thailand to either say goodbye to their son, or at least see him

in the hospital. if he is going to live, then the family could find out how much it will cost per month                                                                                            until this guy can fly back to the UK, when he has recovered enough to do so. 

  If they are not rich enough to pay for a special flight, then face reality like the rest of us have to.

[Bday Prang]

47 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

I agree.  And if one actually reads all the fine print, you will very rarely find a company that will direct pay the hospital.  Most, when it even happens may reimburse you.  And that is quite a long time after you submitted the claim.  That won't help your hospital bill and they may still not let your out of the hospital.

            A guy i know showed me some quotes he received when he was looking for that compulsory  insurance  of the 400k/inpatient  40k outpatient variety. 

            The actual premiums didn't seem too "unaffordable" at first glance (30,000bt/year) despite the miserable level of cover, but what I found a bit puzzling was the "excess"  or "deductibles" as the Thai companies refer to it   ie the first part of any claim that the insured is responsible for paying themselves before the policy "benefits" kick in   

           In some policies one could chose a larger excess to keep premiums lower,  that's a common feature of many policies as we all know, but some policies would allow an excess of  up to 1 million baht and one policy actually  had a compulsory excess of 1 million baht   

           Please don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong, but surely that means  anybody who purchased one of these particular compulsory  policies, would effectively be self-insuring upto and exceeding the minimum immigration insurance requirement of 400k/40k   Pointless really, unless you own shares in the insurance company

           Insurance,  its not really for our benefit at all is it

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Meanwhile, global statistics show that a high percentage of road accidents and fatalities occur within a few kilometers of the victim's abode.

 

Google it, I can't be arsed.

I'm sure they do, but that would surely depend on where the victim's home is? In the UK the road directly oustide my home can be very busy at weekends as I live in a tourist area. By contrast, my home in Thailand is on a very quiet country lane.

[jts-khorat]

58 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

            A guy i know showed me some quotes he received when he was looking for that compulsory  insurance  of the 400k/inpatient  40k outpatient variety.

Many insurance companies in Thailand know full well, that a large percentage of visa holders have a much better insurance policy than they could possibly offer.

 

However, as a government-approved insurance is compulsary for some visa types, very cleverly they offer a construct like this, to make the insurance as cheap as possible to gain those customers. Everybody understands, that this insurance is for all practical purposes useless -- but the right box has been checked.

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, RickyJB said:

i totally agree, ive ridden motorcycles for 35 years, consider myself a good driver, but driving in Thailand is puting yourself at risk. too many other people on the road that should be nowhere near a truck, car bike whatever. i had an accident about 10 years ago , ended up a quick visit to hospital to be checked over, blood tests, it was all my fault, police told me , if i not here it not happen.. i was wearing a   helmet, but it came off after the impact and i bumped my head on the ground knocking me out.. apart from a few scrapes, and concussion i was lucky.. 50, 000 baht i had to pay though.. driver of pick up wanted 30 thousand for damages, but when i couldnt pay on the spot, the police were involved which went up to 50 thousand.. i couldnt remember much of what happened due to concussion, but i know i wasnt drunk, even though they tried to tell me i was, pay up the fine or go to jail.. 3 months later a girl approached me in a bar and said she saw the accident, said i stopped to let the truck pass but he stopped,  flashed to let me go,, when i drove on he ploughed into me.. when i went to pay the fine the next morning the driver was in the cop shop laughing and joking with the police, i later found out this guy had done this before, a scam, and the police involved.. ,, the same police a couple of years later tried to scam me for drink driving , said i was over the limit.. i didnt drink at the time.. impossible to be over the limit..they pulled over a few others at same checkpoint and everyone had same reading on the same metre.. scum.. nowadays i dont drive in Thailand, not worth it.. 

I've ridden bikes and driven cars in Thailand for 21 years.  I've heard all these stories before - please don't think that I'm belittling yours, I'm not.  I hear stories about police speeding scams, the old 'its your fault because you are in Thailand' and its the biggest vehicle that pays. The latter was confirmed to me as correct by a group of Thai lawyers I spoke to at Suvarnabhumi.

 

All I would say is that if you know you are not at fault, challenge it.  Don't challenge it with the police, you'll never win. Take it to court, or at least state that's your intention.  I'm pretty sure that in most cases, things will suddenly change.

 

I have a really good Thai lawyer and she's told me what to do, she also told me thatr the 'biggest vehicle pays' thing is rubbish and told me if it ever happens to me, she'll be happy to take it to court.  This woman knows her onions, she set to become a judge this year.

 

I don't know why people accept the word of the police in Thailand, they probably wouldn't if it was clearly wrong in their home country.  The laws in Thailand are not so different to those in Europe but the police are.  Just remember that the police don't have the last say, just as you do at home, you have the option of going to court.

 

Quick example - many years ago I was stopped on the tollway for 'speeding'. I knew what was coming as I'd seen the cop look at me and radio his mate at the last toll. Sure enough I'm pulled over and I had apparently been speeding.  The cop produced no evidence at all and tried to issue me with a fine - no carbon paper in his receipt book of course. Through my Thai friend (who was amazed at my stance ????), I told him I would not pay, I had not been speeding and he had produced no evidence that I had.  His next was to say "OK, we go see big boss" - at which, I got out of my car, told my friend to do the same, locked it up and said "OK, we go".  The cop, clearly used to foreigners simply paying up, stood there looking confused.  He quickly realised he was on a hiding to nothing and said "Ok but cha cha na" and we were gone, fine free.  But the 200 baht he was asking was not the point, the point was he was lying.  If I'd been speeding, 200 baht would have been far better than going to court ????.

 

The best thing anyone can do to tackle accident scams and corrupt police is to fit a well aimed camera.  I have front and rear ones on my bike.

[KhaoYai]

42 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

However, as a government-approved insurance is compulsary for some visa types, very cleverly they offer a construct like this, to make the insurance as cheap as possible to gain those customers. Everybody understands, that this insurance is for all practical purposes useless -- but the right box has been checked.

Yes but that insurance has nothing to do with road accidents.  I can't speak for ex pats but my UK issued travel insurance covers me for riding motorcycles (as long as I hold a licence) and gives me £15,000,000 of medical cover. The policy is with a major UK travel insurance provider, is for 12 months and covers 45 days per trip.  The price, with a disclosed pre existing condition was £140 at the last renewal - I'm in my 60's.  Money well spent in my opinion.

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Yes but that insurance has nothing to do with road accidents.  I can't speak for ex pats but my UK issued travel insurance covers me for riding motorcycles (as long as I hold a licence) and gives me £15,000,000 of medical cover. The policy is with a major UK travel insurance provider, is for 12 months and covers 45 days per trip.  The price, with a disclosed pre existing condition was £140 at the last renewal - I'm in my 60's.  Money well spent in my opinion.

Check the T&Cs very carefully as the majority of Travel Insurance policies don't cover you for riding a motorcycle that's > 125CC and so you would need specialist motorcycle insurance if you planned on riding a big bike or even something like an 155CC Aerox / NMax scooter which seem very popular at the rental places. 

 

https://www.gocompare.com/travel-insurance/guide/motorcycle-holiday-insurance/

 

 

[Leonard Desharnais]

This is just another terrible tragedy that should never happen when on holidays. We seem to take more risks when we go on holidays( no helmet,phone, beer) which increases the odds of problems or like here, a bad accident. I see it everyday, I have been riding for over 10 years in Thailand. At night, the bike stays home and this reduces my chances. I drink and if the bike is there, I know I will ride it home so I do not take it. I have been riding for 43 years and been in 2 serious accidents. 16yrs and 23 and once here in Thailand which was minor but, was at night after a few beverages. The rules of the road are just not the same as the west. Here is the biggest problem. You can rent scooters or big bikes without a licence or experience. I wish this guy good luck and lets hope that June 1st this new 300 baht entry levy will cover motor accidents also but I REALLY doubt it. I am sure it will be just for sickness with alot of fine print

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/11/2023 at 5:51 PM, webfact said:

His heartbroken family claims he was hit by a driver travelling at high speed while he was riding his motorbike with no helmet.

So, even if he had insurance for a m'bike he had voided it by not wearing a helmet.

Seems we are having so many of this sort of thread now that they could have their own sub forum.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

I agree.  And if one actually reads all the fine print, you will very rarely find a company that will direct pay the hospital.  Most, when it even happens may reimburse you.  And that is quite a long time after you submitted the claim.  That won't help your hospital bill and they may still not let your out of the hospital.

That is NOT always true. After my accident I didn't inform the insurance company before having surgery, which would have allowed them an out, and they reimbursed me as soon as possible after I submitted the paperwork.

I never tried to get them to pay hospital direct, so don't know if they would or not.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Leonard Desharnais said:

This is just another terrible tragedy that should never happen when on holidays. We seem to take more risks when we go on holidays( no helmet,phone, beer) which increases the odds of problems or like here, a bad accident. I see it everyday, I have been riding for over 10 years in Thailand. At night, the bike stays home and this reduces my chances. I drink and if the bike is there, I know I will ride it home so I do not take it. I have been riding for 43 years and been in 2 serious accidents. 16yrs and 23 and once here in Thailand which was minor but, was at night after a few beverages. The rules of the road are just not the same as the west. Here is the biggest problem. You can rent scooters or big bikes without a licence or experience. I wish this guy good luck and lets hope that June 1st this new 300 baht entry levy will cover motor accidents also but I REALLY doubt it. I am sure it will be just for sickness with alot of fine print

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even for experienced riders LOS is problematic when riding on Thai roads.

The only way to stop such events as the OP happening is for the law to require insurance and a valid home country m'bike license before being able to rent a m'bike, but being LOS that's unlikely to happen any time soon.

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

Many insurance companies in Thailand know full well, that a large percentage of visa holders have a much better insurance policy than they could possibly offer.

 

However, as a government-approved insurance is compulsary for some visa types, very cleverly they offer a construct like this, to make the insurance as cheap as possible to gain those customers. Everybody understands, that this insurance is for all practical purposes useless -- but the right box has been checked.

its pretty blatant  how it all works,  meanwhile in another thread 116 immigration officers up on corruption charges, 

[Bday Prang]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, even if he had insurance for a m'bike he had voided it by not wearing a helmet.

Seems we are having so many of this sort of thread now that they could have their own sub forum.

or we could just ignore them

[gk10012001]

3 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

            A guy i know showed me some quotes he received when he was looking for that compulsory  insurance  of the 400k/inpatient  40k outpatient variety. 

            The actual premiums didn't seem too "unaffordable" at first glance (30,000bt/year) despite the miserable level of cover, but what I found a bit puzzling was the "excess"  or "deductibles" as the Thai companies refer to it   ie the first part of any claim that the insured is responsible for paying themselves before the policy "benefits" kick in   

           In some policies one could chose a larger excess to keep premiums lower,  that's a common feature of many policies as we all know, but some policies would allow an excess of  up to 1 million baht and one policy actually  had a compulsory excess of 1 million baht   

           Please don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong, but surely that means  anybody who purchased one of these particular compulsory  policies, would effectively be self-insuring upto and exceeding the minimum immigration insurance requirement of 400k/40k   Pointless really, unless you own shares in the insurance company

           Insurance,  its not really for our benefit at all is it

Yep.  I always only expected my health insurance to cover large huge, potentially financially devastating costs.  I always carried high 10,000 USD deductible here in the USA as I had no chronic conditions, had plenty of income, etc.  I was not concerned about some minor surgery that might have popped up.  That approach served me well for my entire life and I am now 66 and on Medicare.  One does not have a lot of options with Medicare.  One does have choices with the supplemental coverage you need for drugs and dental and other things.

 

As for all the various Thai insurances out there.  Man, as one ages the choices and prices are getting very thin.  That is one of the reasons I am considering shelling out the 1 Million baht for the 20 year Elite Visa.  I think it is unlikely that will ever require any insurance, much of which one can't get as an elder foreigner in Thailand anyway.  I will always have my USA medicare and would return home if needed/  Medicare does cover emergency situations while abroad, but at a reimbursable level

[gk10012001]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is NOT always true. After my accident I didn't inform the insurance company before having surgery, which would have allowed them an out, and they reimbursed me as soon as possible after I submitted the paperwork.

I never tried to get them to pay hospital direct, so don't know if they would or not.

I never said it was always true.  I think it is rare.  But again, the point is, depending on the hospital, and the bill size involved, they may not let you go until you pay.  Getting a reimbursement can be troublesome.

[Dogsredrocket]

Drunky was riding a motorcycle at night, no helmet and on his mobile phone. I believe this is a case of natural selection.

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not quite

If he had stopped in the middle of the road and switched his bikes lights off , making him unseeable to on coming traffic , then it wouldn't have been the car drivers fault

Really, I have been told different and actually been in that situation... guess whose insurance had to pay out! I also did not read anything about being in the middle of the road with the lights off. Had he stopped to use the phone, more likely to be on the left. 

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Not if you take all the mitigating circumstances into account.

Falang always at fault is another circumstance. 

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

If any of that were true, it would surely have been highlighted in the gobegforme account page.  The would have put much emphasis on how he was being uber safe and following all the rules even pulling off the road to make a phone call.

The statement that the other driver was drunk is mentioned there..... who knows the reality, the poor man is unable to speak for himself. 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Check the T&Cs very carefully as the majority of Travel Insurance policies don't cover you for riding a motorcycle that's > 125CC and so you would need specialist motorcycle insurance if you planned on riding a big bike or even something like an 155CC Aerox / NMax scooter which seem very popular at the rental places. 

 

https://www.gocompare.com/travel-insurance/guide/motorcycle-holiday-insurance/

 

 

I can assure you that the policy does include bikes and no size limit is mentioned, anywhere. The only condition is that I hold a licence to ride the bike legally in the destination country. I hold both UK and Thai bike and car licences.

 

Not that it matters, I wasn't aware of the cover when I took out the policy - I only did so because it was an entry requirement due to covid restrictions at the time and noticed the cover when inspecting the policy.  My bikes are both covered on Thai insurance policies anyway which, unless I told porkies, would invalidate the travel cover. Shame really as the cover on the travel policy is far higher.

 

FYI, the policy is with All Clear Insurance and is their Gold cover.

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

FYI, the policy is with All Clear Insurance and is their Gold cover.

To note from the UK-based AllClear Travel policy general exclusions:

 

.3) ... We do not expect you to avoid alcohol consumption on your trips or holidays but we will not cover any claims arising because you have drunk so much alcohol that your judgement is seriously affected and you need to make a claim as a result (e.g. any medical claim where in the opinion of the treating doctor, your excessive alcohol consumption has caused or actively contributed to your injury or illness);

 

https://www.allcleartravel.co.uk/images/alc/AllClear_Options_Policy_Booklet_G.pdf  -- PDF page 35

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I can assure you that the policy does include bikes and no size limit is mentioned, anywhere. The only condition is that I hold a licence to ride the bike legally in the destination country. I hold both UK and Thai bike and car licences.

 

Not that it matters, I wasn't aware of the cover when I took out the policy - I only did so because it was an entry requirement due to covid restrictions at the time and noticed the cover when inspecting the policy.  My bikes are both covered on Thai insurance policies anyway which, unless I told porkies, would invalidate the travel cover. Shame really as the cover on the travel policy is far higher.

 

FYI, the policy is with All Clear Insurance and is their Gold cover.

I only mentioned it as a lot of people are unaware of the 125cc limit & think that because they have travel insurance & a big bike license they're covered when most of the time they're not. 

 

I'm not suggesting that the "Gold Cover" doesn't cover a bigger bike but if you took a look at the All Clear FAQ... 

https://www.comparetravelinsurance.com.au/travel-insurance-companies/all-clear

 

It clearly states... 

What size moped or motorbike am I covered to ride overseas?

You are covered if the engine capacity is less than 125cc. You also need to be wearing a crash helmet.

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Individuals only obey laws that exist and are enforced.  If we left it to people to choose - most wouldn't. Why do you think Thai people for example, rarely wear crash helmets?

While I see the occasional Thai not wearing a helmet, it seems to be the exception, not the rule. 

 

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Do you seriously think that most people would pay for insurance, get a licence or wear a helmet if they didn't have to? 

I would buy insurance, are you saying you wouldn't? I think driving is a privilege and as such people should be licensed. I do not think people should be compelled to wear helmets, why should they?

 

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Its called governance - the alternative is the wild west.

You watch too many movies. 

[Nemises]

On 3/11/2023 at 4:08 PM, steven100 said:

Very sad indeed.  Whens tourists jump on a motorbike in Thailand the safety aspect is compromised in most cases which poses a big risk of getting injured. Honestly,  it's just not worth it.

Not just tourists, but more like everyone who jumps on a motorbike in Thailand.

Putting your life in the hands of drunk, drugged, distracted, careless, speeding etc etc drivers on the most dangerous, rule-unenforced roads on the planet. What could possibly go wrong. 

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

To be honest, and I can't speak for others - I've go so used to doing both that I don't feel right without doing either.

 

I'l  put my hands up and say I do ride my Scoopy to the village shop occasionally without a helmet. However, that's 2km up a country lane where the other traffic is very slow and there's not much of it. I wouldn't dream of going anywhere near a major road on either the Scoopy or my ER6.

Most accident happen close to home. 

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

With seatbelts, if I don't put mine on, it just doesn't feel right and I have to put it on within a few metres.

Well, that and the car starts beeping...

[Yellowtail]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

And 50 - 100 baht roadside fines for not wearing a helmet has done what to encourage Thai people to wear one?

I see far and away most Thais wearing helmets. When you earn 300 Baht a day, a 50-100 Baht fine is significant. For a guy like you, not so much. That's why I think the fine should be 10,000 baht for non-Thais. 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Falang always at fault is another circumstance. 

That has not been my experience.