All big Cannabis shops are advertising their product as ORGANIC but while smoking you can definitely see, smell and feel that it is not.

Please do not discuss about that, lets say a friend of a friend of my uncles brothers aunty had to do with growing Ganja in his home country for a decade.

 

Just using mineral fertilizer on Coco instead of organic fertilizer on Earth is making a huge difference not just on taste and smell, but as well on appearance. You can literally see the leftovers of the fertilizer on the buds, with bare eyes, better with a microscope and when you burn a bud from the burning behavior. 

 

Even in USA you cannot give a <deleted> on trusting the "ORGANIC" labeling, there is no real control of the Cannabis Market anywhere even where it was legalized.

We have the allowance to grow Ganja plants and a big garden, but we are almost never here for 2-3 months in a row and have no neighbors to take care of when we are gone.

 

 

So, to make long story short, does anyone know a reputable source for real organic Ganja? Preferably a source that grows Ganja with a more balanced CBD:THC Ratio.
I recently had Charlottes Angel Gold with 13% THC and 13% CBD from a big shop which I better do not name due to Thailand's crazy defamation laws, but it was definitely not grown organic as advertised. Maybe used no pesticides, could be but not even sure about that, but definitely used chemical fertilizers that weren't even flushed properly

The comestibles aren't pure either. I had a rare brownie the other day and it was just synthetic dope, not even just CBD oil. The synthetic stuff has a very bad effect on me so I know when they use to lace week and cookies.

Yeah that is a big thing back in Europe in general. Almost everywhere the big dealers just buy CBD weed for 0.50€/g and spray it with JWH-018 or some other synthetic cannabinoid and sell it as real Ganja.
Most people are smoking this nowadays without even knowing.

 

I think that should not be that much of an issue here in general, as it is now so widely and freely available here.

But I can see how it is being used especially in edibles, because it is even more unrecognizable.

 

I do not like all these high-breed 20%+ THC ganja strains nowadays.

Naturally Cannabis should come with a kinda high CBD ratio which works as an antagonist to the THC.

I smoked weed pretty heavily since I am 13 years old and I noticed over time that I need more CBD in my ganja to feel the real good effects of it without any bad side effects at all.

 

So I would really like to buy some natural traditional strain being grown outdoor by little farmers. If anyone got a contact, let me know.

Wait, while I am typing this I remember my wifes dad is growing some in their backyard up in Isaan. I should ask her later if he can send me some if he got some harvested :D 

 

But anyway. please provide sources for real good natural Ganja. Not just for me, but for everyone here that is still interested in this instead of these super-weird "Cali" strains.

7 hours ago, FarAway said:

You can literally see the leftovers of the fertilizer on the buds, with bare eyes

Can you share any photos showing these "leftovers"? Can you describe them? Is this a fertilizer sprayed onto the plant? Or a result of uptake from the soil/medium?

 

 

I think you face two distinct challenges. One is finding an acceptable 1:1 strain, and the other is finding true organic growers.

 

And there can be huge variations (phenotypes) within a strain name.

 

The obvious solution is to grow your own but that doesn't appear possible in your case. Short of that would be to contract an organic grower to grow clones/seeds you provide.

 

Have you ever located a suitable and acceptable strain, anywhere at anytime? Can you share those strain names?

 

Have you ever located an acceptably organic grown variety of any kind? Where, what, when, price?

 

What volume and price are you will to commit to? Rare, low-yielding strains grown organically are going to be expensive, more so at low volumes.

 

 

There are organic growers out there, outdoor, greenhouse and even indoor, but they are hard to find.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1lK9SKirwg

 

 

2 hours ago, FarAway said:

Wait, while I am typing this I remember my wifes dad is growing some in their backyard up in Isaan. I should ask her later if he can send me some if he got some harvested :D 

Well there you go, get the FiL to grow cannabis organically for you. Problem solved.

9 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

Well there you go, get the FiL to grow cannabis organically for you. Problem solved.

I will answer the rest when I find time, but the problem with this is:
TIME. I am impatient. I wanna smoke it now :D :D

14 hours ago, Ganja Goats said:

youve got to have a microscope to find the nasties.

Can you tell us more about these "nasties" which you see using your microscope?

 

 

On 4/4/2023 at 3:17 AM, ozimoron said:

The comestibles aren't pure either. I had a rare brownie the other day and it was just synthetic dope, not even just CBD oil. The synthetic stuff has a very bad effect on me so I know when they use to lace week and cookies.

what do you mean by synthetic dope. legit question. 

 

you need to try cookies from someone who actually knows what they are doing. ahem. :)

45 minutes ago, Ganja Goats said:

Pesticides will nearly always leave traces of chemical burn. On a bud not advertised as organic this can be very obvious, but on "organics" they'll often heavily dilute or try less powerful chemicals. What you're looking for is that chemical burn deeper inside the bud where it has become trapped and settled. The color and structure of the burn can vary but will always stand out from normal heat burns (if they exist) on the exterior of the bud.

Can you share any more details? Any photos? This "burn" is deep inside the bud? How did it come to be "trapped"?  Is this foliar or uptake? Do indoor growers use pesticides? And how does this "stand out"? Please share you expertise.

 

45 minutes ago, Ganja Goats said:

Fertilisers are the easiest - find yourself a nugget of trapped dirt, and you'll often see crystalized additives.

Sorry but "trapped dirt"? Where? In a  bud?

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Ganja Goats said:

Sure thing, two examples:

- Pesticides will nearly always leave traces of chemical burn. On a bud not advertised as organic this can be very obvious, but on "organics" they'll often heavily dilute or try less powerful chemicals. What you're looking for is that chemical burn deeper inside the bud where it has become trapped and settled. The color and structure of the burn can vary but will always stand out from normal heat burns (if they exist) on the exterior of the bud.
- Fertilisers are the easiest - find yourself a nugget of trapped dirt, and you'll often see crystalized additives. This is why a microscope with a base is important, its easy to miss such small details with a shaky hand and a 5x/10x loop. 

Its not fool proof by any means, but here organic laws arent really enforced, so any amount of vigilance is better than none.

I noticed that your website advertises brick weed from cambodia and laos as 100% organic !!  How would that stand up to scrutiny under a microscope ?  Perfectly, one would hope, considering the prices being asked for it.

As you say yourself organic laws are not enforced here, especially concerning cannabis.      I very much doubt things are any different in Cambodia or Laos were it is not even legal.

7 hours ago, stoner said:

what do you mean by synthetic dope. legit question. 

 

you need to try cookies from someone who actually knows what they are doing. ahem. ????

Synthetic dope,  isn't that what we used to call "spice" in the UK   very nasty stuff indeed

13 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Synthetic dope,  isn't that what we used to call "spice" in the UK   very nasty stuff indeed

so not weed then. 

6 hours ago, Ganja Goats said:

Sure thing, two examples:

- Pesticides will nearly always leave traces of chemical burn. On a bud not advertised as organic this can be very obvious, but on "organics" they'll often heavily dilute or try less powerful chemicals. What you're looking for is that chemical burn deeper inside the bud where it has become trapped and settled. The color and structure of the burn can vary but will always stand out from normal heat burns (if they exist) on the exterior of the bud.
- Fertilisers are the easiest - find yourself a nugget of trapped dirt, and you'll often see crystalized additives. This is why a microscope with a base is important, its easy to miss such small details with a shaky hand and a 5x/10x loop. 

Its not fool proof by any means, but here organic laws arent really enforced, so any amount of vigilance is better than none.

There is no scientific test that can discriminate between organic and fertilised foods.

Everything you have written is complete and utter BS.

 

In Europe and the states there are organisations that certify organic produce, but it's done by inspecting the farms and their soils, not their produce.

7 minutes ago, Ganja Goats said:

.and while yes Fed level certs are based on growing setup testing, there are many destructive tests available that can find synthetics and toxins introduced, not just to cannabis but any produce. 

Toxin testing doesn't tell you if the produce was organic or inorganically grown.

It only tells you if their were toxins in the produce.

Growing your plants in heavy metal rich organic soil, will test positive for toxins.

 

In fact, the science still can't tell us if organically grown produce has any benefits over and above intensively fertilised produce.

 

As far as I can tell the only advantage in organic produce is to the grower that can demand a premium price from the overly foolish shoppers.

17 minutes ago, Ganja Goats said:

Perhaps I was not clear in my response. Im not suggesting a scope is going to give you 100% knowledge on the growing process of the flower. In Thailand, short of growing it yourself... you likely will never know, unless you run or have a close relationship with an organic farm. Also organic does not mean no fertiliser, synthetic fertiliser is another story.

..and while yes Fed level certs are based on growing setup testing, there are many destructive tests available that can find synthetics and toxins introduced, not just to cannabis but any produce. 

your edibles and butter....what is used to make them ? 

 

 

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Toxin testing doesn't tell you if the produce was organic or inorganically grown.

i find it strange that people think a plant can tell the difference between organic N and synthetic N. 

 

as far as i knew N is N regardless how it is derived. 

 

now using chemicals on plants to solve issues is a totally different story. but using synthetic nutes. plants know no difference. 

Just now, Ganja Goats said:

Only the butter uses organic ingredients, the others are not.

no i mean you infuse the butter the old way right ? or ? weed and butter cooked together and separated etc. 

4 minutes ago, Ganja Goats said:

Only the butter uses organic ingredients, the others are not.

and forgive my ignorance but how many mg are in a strong brownie ? 

2 minutes ago, Ganja Goats said:

A very low slow infuse in an oven, just coconut oil. Old school.

i do not recommend this method personally. no way to know any sort of mg per dosage.

2 hours ago, stoner said:

so not weed then. 

No it's definitely not weed! not sure if anybody knows what it is exactly, but the UK was awash with it a few years ago.

          There were several documentaries about it, It was common in prisons and certain  deprived  cities   It  zombifies those who use it,  I've seen people comatosed in the streets.  It was alleged  to be synthesised THC  and it was a fraction of the cost of real weed 

          Think it was actually legal for a while, along with  other stuff marketed  as bath salts and plant food,  these things were sold as "legal highs"  . The government eventually got to hear about it and they are all Illegal now, but bizarrely  still referred to as "legal highs"

13 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

No it's definitely not weed! not sure if anybody knows what it is exactly, but the UK was awash with it a few years ago.

          There were several documentaries about it, It was common in prisons and certain  deprived  cities   It  zombifies those who use it,  I've seen people comatosed in the streets.  It was alleged  to be synthesised THC  and it was a fraction of the cost of real weed 

          Think it was actually legal for a while, along with  other stuff marketed  as bath salts and plant food,  these things were sold as "legal highs"  . The government eventually got to hear about it and they are all Illegal now, but bizarrely  still referred to as "legal highs"

k so no relation in any way to actual weed. just another street drug. 

31 minutes ago, stoner said:

k so no relation in any way to actual weed. just another street drug. 

Absolutely, but the fact that it was sometimes marketed as "Synthetic THC", made me wonder if thats what @ozimoron was referring to when he mentioned "Synthetic Dope",   especially when he said it had a very bad effect on him.  Either way its best avoided 

On 4/4/2023 at 6:13 AM, FarAway said:

Yeah that is a big thing back in Europe in general. Almost everywhere the big dealers just buy CBD weed for 0.50€/g and spray it with JWH-018 or some other synthetic cannabinoid and sell it as real Ganja.
Most people are smoking this nowadays without even knowing.

If you had any knowledge of the European grow scene you would never make that statement - that is totally and utterly ridiculous.

1 hour ago, stoner said:

i find it strange that people think a plant can tell the difference between organic N and synthetic N. 

 

as far as i knew N is N regardless how it is derived. 

 

now using chemicals on plants to solve issues is a totally different story. but using synthetic nutes. plants know no difference. 

Well... ????

 

Technically there are several different sources of N as you well know, but yeah N is N when it finally gets absorbed into the plant.

 

However, as you also well know there are lots of other compounds found in organic nutes that can stimulate the plant into doing different things to defend itself, so it's definitely not a black and white N vs N scenario.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Everything you have written is complete and utter BS.

Absolutely.

22 minutes ago, tomster said:

Well... ????

 

Technically there are several different sources of N as you well know, but yeah N is N when it finally gets absorbed into the plant.

 

However, as you also well know there are lots of other compounds found in organic nutes that can stimulate the plant into doing different things to defend itself, so it's definitely not a black and white N vs N scenario.

which can also be made synthetically i think right ? so all of those compounds would be in the same scenario as the N. compound x y or z ....the plant doesn't know. there maybe be some compounds that cannot be made synthetically. as i am not a master grower or that good either i just don't know.  if anyone here knows please explain. no bro science though. 

 

true organic can be done indoors. no till. pancake layering methods etc. much harder but can be done. growing the n etc into the soil itself with cover crops and all that. not something i have done personally but i have seen videos.

 

 

Synthetic Cannabinoid is a very big problem in Europe:

 

https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/pods/synthetic-cannabinoids_en

 

Organic cannabis is produced by feeding cannabis N, P, K, Ca, Mg, Fe and trace elements/minerals from once living sources: manure, blood/bone meal, guano, composts, etc. Soluble trace elements and minerals through volcanic or fossilized rock like azomite or riverbed silt, etc.

 

it should also be understood that many organic inputs, like guano, are very high in heavy metals. Cannabis is a hyperaccumulator plant and will uptake heavy metals and toxins from all substrates and soils. This is why hemp was used for many years as a soil remediation. The very idea that organic cannabis is “better”, is a complete fabrication as well as thinking there is a difference between ‘medical grade’ and recreational cannabis. (Can’t wait for all the bro-science disagreements! ????) It is simply a marketing term. I wonder how many pulmonologists are saying to smoke organic weed!

 

These organic inputs rely on mineralization by microbes, bacteria and fungi to convert them into ions (cations and anions) which is the ONLY way a plant can absorb them. So, yes it’s true a plant can not tell the difference between organic and non-organic nutrients. Mineralization is a slow, inexact process that can take weeks to produce results.

 

indoor, organic growing is certainly possible. So is organic hydroponic growing. Organic byproduct slurries are converted into ionic form through bacteria (lacto bacillus and photosynthetic bacteria)

 

”No Till” organic farming was designed for OUTDOOR, poor soil environments.

Latest cannabis tek/sop, combines organic inputs (kelp, humic and Fulvic acid) with synthetic salts for optimization and benefits that result in increased secondary metabolites (THC, CBD). These are mostly chelators, vitamins, minerals and natural hormones.

 

Salts, of which some are considered organic as well, such as rock phosphates and Potassium Sulfate, are already in an ionic form and are readily absorbed by the plant. In a commercial grow, one can ‘dial in’ the amount of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium and Magnesium on a real time basis. This is the reason why salts are used is sustainable, economic grow models.

 

As a scientist, I can tell you soil farming with natural/organic inputs taste better but the science can NOT explain why. The only difference is the organoleptic properties (taste, smell, aroma, flavor, etc.) It does NOT change terpene profiles.

 

Nitrogen (N) the primary source of plant growth is provided through NO3 (Nitrate) and NH4 (ammonium). The former is an anion and the latter, an cation. The plant needs to expend energy to convert nitrate into NH4 - the useable form. Nitrifying bacteria in soil does the conversion if using manures, composts and ferments. Though NH4 is the useable form, plants prefer nitrate (NO3) over ammonium (NH4) if using salts/synthetics. Too much NH4 will diminish concentrations of THC and CBD as well as yield. If NH4 is kept between 10-30% of NO3 there will be no loss. 
 

Here in Thailand, where there is no regulating body (The Wild West), there is absolutely no guarantee to what you are buying, smoking or eating. I have discovered more lies than truths.

 

As far as microscopic examination of flower, this will only show you airborne contamination, I.e dirt, insects, hair, etc. and is NOT a diagnostic tool for anything more. If one was foolish to spray salts on flowering cannabis you might be able to discern recrystallization. 
 

Unless you are the grower or know the growers ‘plant husbandry’ grow practices, it would be highly, highly doubtful you would find organic weed in dispensaries unless you are prone to believe what you are told. IMHO of course!

On 4/7/2023 at 1:06 PM, SamuiGrower said:

If one was foolish to spray salts on flowering cannabis you might be able to discern recrystallization. 

Seems you know your stuff... Respect...

One question... what about Epsom salts? 
I have read that foliar spraying is good. What is your take on this?

56 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

Seems you know your stuff... Respect...

One question... what about Epsom salts? 
I have read that foliar spraying is good. What is your take on this?

There is no better way to correct a nutrient deficiency than foliar spraying but one should exercise a bit of caution before you do so.

 

Magnesium deficiency occurs through leaching (soils) or through cation capture due to the soils negatively charged nature to hold and release Magnesium (and calcium), both having strong charges (+2). Most organic substrates have a large CEC (cation exchange rate) and can hold back both Ca and Mg showing a deficiency even though they are present. 

 

If you are seeing a magnesium deficiency in an indoor grow, it is likely in vegetative growth and you are growing in coco which has a propensity to hold back magnesium and calcium until you compensate for it (buffering). The most likely possibility is a nutrient schedule that is not balanced. This is of no surprise since most bottled nutrients sell you on “stacking” a regiment of 4, 5 and 6+ additives to achieve a well rounded nutrition program. One of the biggest additives in the market, as well as the biggest myth is the Cal-Mag additive - the cure all for all that ails your plant. (I would love to discuss this at a later date).

 

Magnesium is also mobile in the plant and can be translocated from healthy leaves to deficient parts of the plant. If you see a Mg deficiency, it will be noticed in the lower leaves first. The bad news is, by the time you see it, the onset was much earlier on but you’re just seeing it now.

 

It is correctable and a drench is more recommended to correct the issue than a foliar application. This will work in both Veg and Flower, where a foliar will only be good in veg. 
 

1 gram of Magnesium Sulfate per liter of water will make a 100 ppm (E.C. 0.2) magnesium solution (approx.). This can be scaled up and down proportionately. I would start with half that: 50 ppm of Mg and then observe. I wouldn’t add more than a gram/liter as Mg can antagonize Ca. There is also 130 ppms (EC 0.26) of sulfur (S) which poses no problem since there is no known sulfur toxicity threshold in cannabis.  It should also be noted that sulfur improves the organoleptic properties of cannabis (smell, aroma, taste, flavor, etc.) and is usually the primary ingredient (sulfates) in most bud finishers and ripeners on the market.

 

If you feel you need an immediate correction, foliar applications act faster and are usually much stronger, as in 500 ppms and up is not unusual. You will need a surfactant, wetting agent, ‘sticker’ to make it more efficient. Use  a soap like Bronner’s or anything mild (made with KOH and not NaOH) if you are not using an agricultural surfactant. Make sure to spray the underside of the leaf where it will do the most good. Just before lights out, not in the direct sun (if outdoors), etc.

Magnesium Sulfate has long been a gardeners salvo when reusing soils or potting in depleted mediums. I hope this is helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

I use CalMag+ and Epsom Salts to balance as the CalMag always has a higher Calcium to Magnesium ratio than cannabis requires.