Charlie Kirk Says Gun Deaths 'Unfortunately' Worth it to Keep 2nd Amendment

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Neither are baseball bats, and bats kill as many people as AR15s.  So howzabout we get rid of baseball bats too?

Don't be silly, a machine gun can kill many in seconds, not so for a baseball bat....????

Plus a baseball bat is a lump of wood.....................????

[expat_4_life]

Cops cannot be everywhere all the time. Part of the reason there is an absolute right to bear arms (2nd amendment) is that it’s an additional deterrent to criminality. A rape or robbery victim who kills perpetrator sends an even stronger message than a cop making arrest.

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Don't be silly, a machine gun can kill many in seconds, not so for a baseball bat....????

Plus a baseball bat is a lump of wood.....................????

The AR 15 is not a machine gun. It is just a rifle. A semi automatic rifle.  Many people who weigh in on the firearms conversation seem ignorant of the basic traits of firearms. 

 

A gun is just a lump of metal.   In any case, the speed is not the issue.  The numbers are. Bats and rifles kill an equal number of people. So it makes just as much sense, for public safety, to ban one as the other. 

[Hanaguma]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Strawman. Where 's your evidence I claimed that?

 

You may want to actually "view" this vid by the LAPD and see why they kill more people when used especially children

 

 

Pathetic presentation.

 

The first scene and others show fully automatic weapons firing. Which are virtually unobtainable and therefore irrelevant.  Afterwards, he seems to make the case AGAINST long guns as mass shooting weapons, noting the time it takes to change magazines. Far easier for a bad guy to simply carry multiple handguns, dropping them as they are used.  

[transam]

16 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The AR 15 is not a machine gun. It is just a rifle. A semi automatic rifle.  Many people who weigh in on the firearms conversation seem ignorant of the basic traits of firearms. 

 

A gun is just a lump of metal.   In any case, the speed is not the issue.  The numbers are. Bats and rifles kill an equal number of people. So it makes just as much sense, for public safety, to ban one as the other. 

Come off it, you are making excuses for your hobby, when kids are being sent to an early grave. You blokes should grow up, go fishing....

[Dart12]

I don't own a gun.  Never have.  

But blaming deaths on guns is an over reach.  When you check homocides in all countries, USA is smack dab in the middle.

People wanting to kill others are going to do it and are doing it.  And that's seen thru the homocide numbers around the world where guns are NOT available.  No guns are not stopping other countries from having higher rates of homocides.

More than anything, imo, it's the culture (both national AND local/ethnic and also usually poverty level) that predicates the homocides and not the instruments of death available.



 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Come off it, you are making excuses for your hobby, when kids are being sent to an early grave. You blokes should grow up, go fishing....

Shooting and hunting are as valid as baseball as hobbies.  There is no evidence that restricting AR type weapons would save any lives at all. But it WOULD give politicians something to crow about.  Perhaps THAT is the reason it is pushed so much.

[transam]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Shooting and hunting are as valid as baseball as hobbies.  There is no evidence that restricting AR type weapons would save any lives at all. But it WOULD give politicians something to crow about.  Perhaps THAT is the reason it is pushed so much.

Look at your country's history of fruitcakes mass killings....

What would you say if your kids or wife were killed by these nutters, be honest......?

[jvs]

23 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Actually, more people are killed with knives than with ALL long guns (rifles, shotguns, semi auto and single shot) combined. Ditto clubbing weapons- bats etc kill more people than long guns. Should they be banned as well? Cars kill tens of thousands too. 

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

Really?I did not know that,completely new to me.

Oh wait,this stupid old line has been around for a very long time mostly regurgitated by not so smart people.

Can you come up with an original idea yourself or are you just following the leader?

I am not even going into how stupid i think your response is.

 

[jvs]

8 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

I don't own a gun.  Never have.  

But blaming deaths on guns is an over reach.  When you check homocides in all countries, USA is smack dab in the middle.

People wanting to kill others are going to do it and are doing it.  And that's seen thru the homocide numbers around the world where guns are NOT available.  No guns are not stopping other countries from having higher rates of homocides.

More than anything, imo, it's the culture (both national AND local/ethnic and also usually poverty level) that predicates the homocides and not the instruments of death available.



 

Would you agree that if you want to kill a bunch of people at once

a gun is a lot more convenient then say,a knife?

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Pathetic presentation.

 

The first scene and others show fully automatic weapons firing. Which are virtually unobtainable and therefore irrelevant.  Afterwards, he seems to make the case AGAINST long guns as mass shooting weapons, noting the time it takes to change magazines. Far easier for a bad guy to simply carry multiple handguns, dropping them as they are used.  

Your blind as well. While the first scene is fully auto the following are not. The facts of what they do on impact in the body ie explode are just that facts. The very reason a child's head is literally blown off.

 

33 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

A gun is just a lump of metal.   In any case, the speed is not the issue.  The numbers are. Bats and rifles kill an equal number of people. So it makes just as much sense, for public safety, to ban one as the other. 

So why did the Las Vegas Strip murderer killing 58 and injuring a further 546 not use a bat then? 

 

You're just embarrassing yourself now fella.

 

AR-15 exploding inside your body...............

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Look at your country's history of fruitcakes mass killings....

What would you say if your kids or wife were killed by these nutters, be honest......?

Chance of being killed with an AR is the same as with a baseball bat. I am equally scared of both. Or equally not scared.

[jvs]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

As soon as the phrase "weapons of war" is deployed, the so-called journalist loses all credibility.  There is no military on earth that uses the AR-15.    

 

Again, the numbers don't bear out the assertion that AR-15s and other long guns are a particular problem.  Handguns are used to kill far more people.  Politicians and ignorant journalists are simply scapegoating the vast majority of legal and safe owners of long weapons. 

Thank you for finally saying something smart,you just made a good argument to ban all guns.

Well done i say,there is hope!

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Chance of being killed with an AR is the same as with a baseball bat. I am equally scared of both. Or equally not scared.

As you think you are an expert, what is the killing range of an AR15, then, what is the killing range of a baseball bat....????

 

And just for you, my machine gun AR15......????

 

https://anthonyarms.com/gun/how-to-make-an-ar-15-fully-automatic/

[LosLobo]

28 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...and as the article says, NEVER used by the military. A fifty year old design.  Nothing unique or special about it. So old that the patent expired and it can be copied by any company. A weapon that has never been used in any military on earth and has never been used in a war cannot be called a weapon of war.  

 

It is akin to a Ford Mustang with a 4 cylinder engine. Looks like a sports car, but performs like a family sedan.  

Maybe the new modern Sig Sauer's MCX Spear now available to the US public, will become the war weapon of choice with school mass murderers.

 

It seems to bypass your criteria.

 

The US Army's new assault rifle coming to local gun stores.

 

"Sig Sauer's MCX Spear is designed to punch through body armour at range".

 

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/investigations/us-army-new-rifle-selling-to-general-public/65-eec40852-7ea5-4a5a-9cea-f27d1acbabe4

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, jvs said:

Thank you for finally saying something smart,you just made a good argument to ban all guns.

Well done i say,there is hope!

 

,...which as worked where, exactly, on this earth?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

,...which as worked where, exactly, on this earth?

The world is full of illegal firearms, but you must make a start somewhere.

In the UK I lost my firearms licence as guns were banned, except 2 shot shotguns, which by the way, is an excellent home protection piece... 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

The world is full of illegal firearms, but you must make a start somewhere.

In the UK I lost my firearms licence as guns were banned, except 2 shot shotguns, which by the way, is an excellent home protection piece... 

You are making my point. Even in the UK, firearms are not banned.  I asked where on earth they have been banned, and to what effect? Still waiting...

 

and I agree that a 12 gauge can be good for home defence, if you have a short barrel and the right load.  Slugs are fun but buckshot may be a better option.   And hopefully you arent being robbed by more than 2 people...

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, expat_4_life said:

Cops cannot be everywhere all the time. Part of the reason there is an absolute right to bear arms (2nd amendment) is that it’s an additional deterrent to criminality. A rape or robbery victim who kills perpetrator sends an even stronger message than a cop making arrest.

Where in the amandment does it say 'bear arms to reduce crime'?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

You are making my point. Even in the UK, firearms are not banned.  I asked where on earth they have been banned, and to what effect? Still waiting...

 

and I agree that a 12 gauge can be good for home defence, if you have a short barrel and the right load.  Slugs are fun but buckshot may be a better option.   And hopefully you arent being robbed by more than 2 people...

In the UK forearms are banned, if you want a 2 shot shotgun, you have to be interrogated as to why, which means farmers or others who can be grilled.

So, Joe Bloggs will have a problem...

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

So, mass shooters will stop if they cant get an AR 15?  Where is your evidence of that? 

 

There are more than 8 million long guns in the AR family in circulation. 7,999, 800 are used peacefully and lawfully, and also for legitimate home defence. 

That's what people don't understand your last paragraph demostates that. 

A shotgun or shotgun pistol is quite adequate for home defense.

 

Loads with rock salt I would use that way I don't need to kill anyone.

[worgeordie]

He might change his mind if a few members of his family

are victims of a nutjob with a gun......

 

regards Worgeordie

[Hanaguma]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

In the UK forearms are banned, if you want a 2 shot shotgun, you have to be interrogated as to why, which means farmers or others who can be grilled.

So, Joe Bloggs will have a problem...

In the US that horse has long left the barn.  How many of the 8 million Americans who own AR rifles do you think would voluntarily surrender them to authorities? Never mind the tens of millions of others with handguns, shotguns, etc?   Banning and confiscation are not the answers, they simply won't work. 

[Kwasaki]

19 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You are making my point. Even in the UK, firearms are not banned.  I asked where on earth they have been banned, and to what effect? Still waiting...

 

and I agree that a 12 gauge can be good for home defence, if you have a short barrel and the right load.  Slugs are fun but buckshot may be a better option.   And hopefully you arent being robbed by more than 2 people...

Remi 870 auto holds 6 and one in the chamber.

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Remi 870 auto holds 6 and one in the chamber.

There is perhaps no sound  in the English language more scary than hearing the "click SNICK" of a shotgun shell being racked. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, expat_4_life said:

Cops cannot be everywhere all the time. Part of the reason there is an absolute right to bear arms (2nd amendment) is that it’s an additional deterrent to criminality. A rape or robbery victim who kills perpetrator sends an even stronger message than a cop making arrest.

Can you point to the text within the Second Amendment of Constitution that mentions deterrent to criminality, I seem to have missed it.

[Kwasaki]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

In the UK forearms are banned, if you want a 2 shot shotgun, you have to be interrogated as to why, which means farmers or others who can be grilled.

So, Joe Bloggs will have a problem...

You forgot to say you have to have a shotgun licence as well also home interviewed and show the gun police department where and how secure the shotguns are and how secure the house is and where the guns are kept. 

 

There's lot more to it and guns you own are listed on your licence.

 

Ammunition has to be safely stored and seperatly from the gun cabinet.

 

I was last checked in 2004 before I left for Thailand and the gun police department were getting very strict at every renewal time for the shotgun licence.

 

Ask any UK police person in UK involved with guns and they will say they don't like shotguns.

 

Your not usually shooting a gun at a person a mile away. 

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

There is perhaps no sound  in the English language more scary than hearing the "click SNICK" of a shotgun shell being racked. 

I'm English and I loved it.

[billd766]

back to the OP.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65233350

 

From the link.

 

The suspect was named as 25-year-old Connor Sturgeon, who police said used an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle during the incident and was broadcasting the shooting online.

 

Charlie Kirk. Welcome to another 5 deaths "necessary" to keep the 2nd amendment alive so that numpties can kill innocent people.

 

Fortunately no children were killed or injured in this "incident".

 

However there is a good possibility that parents and grandparents are no longer alive for their husbands, wives, children or grandchildren.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Chance of being killed with an AR is the same as with a baseball bat. I am equally scared of both. Or equally not scared.

Thanks for helping to inform those

who are hell bent on banning scary

looking rifles ! 

Back in the day I had many rifles for sport and hunting ,all safely tucked away in a locked metal gun closet ,unfortunately my youngest was diagnosed with a severe mental disorder and I thought it best to sell them! Looking back I should of sold my kids baseball bats too, I had no idea as to the potential danger those could cause.

 

If I lived in the states again I would buy a weapon for protection instead of sport and hunting! I wish I could have one here.

 

 

Americans buy guns for personal security, hunting and sport. A survey by Gallup in 2021 found that 88 percent of gun owners bought guns for self-defence, much higher than 67 percent in 2005.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/us-gun-violence-explainer-why-americans-own-arms-and-how-weapons-manufacturers-influence-culture-13707052.htm#