Pattaya motorcycle taxi rider threatens to kill 2 foreigners over fare dispute

[Spock]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

100 baht is not maybe £1, not even close. I slip them 50 baht for most rides and never have an issue...... chuck a few Thai words at them and they seem less avaricious. 

You slip them 50 baht as a tip! Hope you are going a long distance as that would be the amount I would pay the ride alone.

[Spock]

5 hours ago, moe666 said:

It is alot for him, small change for them.

It's a rip off for a short ride. And once someone produces a knife and tries to use it, any sympathy they might have garnered goes out the window.

[Spock]

3 hours ago, papa al said:

B80 is a trifle to falang.

Could be food or no food for family to poor driver.

 

 

 

You might want to ruin Thailand for foreigners by overpaying for services. You mightn't be so sympathetic if it was you paying chased around with a knife. 

[ozimoron]

27 minutes ago, NextG said:

I didn’t. They fall under ‘unwary’. Sex tourists were described as travelling with their ‘rentals’. Seems that you got up on the wrong side of bed this morning. Brain fog?

"but the unwary and the sex tourists"

[Xonax]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

Not difficult to make sure the fare includes everybody. In Thai even. If you can't speak the language, just walk.

Wouldn't it be the taxi riders responsibility, that the customers understand the quoted price?

[richard_smith237]

43 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

What area is that? I'm not disputing you at all, just never heard the term used.

All over Thailand... ‘Win’ is also a term commonly used in the media...  

 

43 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

My experience is that most normally encourage foreigners (or farangs lol) to take two bikes to help their mates out. I always think it strange to see two "foreigners" on a bike and when I do it's always Indians.

I'm sure that happens too.....    No need for us to fall into the trap of stating there is consistent behaviour... experience varies, behaviour varies particularly in Thailand. 

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

All over Thailand... ‘Win’ is also a term commonly used in the media...  

 

I'm sure that happens too.....    No need for us to fall into the trap of stating there is consistent behaviour... experience varies, behaviour varies particularly in Thailand.

Can't argue with that. You get a thumbs up.

[Rimmer]

troll also bickering and baiting posts removed also replies

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Xonax said:

Wouldn't it be the taxi riders responsibility, that the customers understand the quoted price?

Why???  the Taxi has no responsibility at all ??

Isn’t it the Taxi diver (win rider’s) responsibility to ensure the customers are given an accurate price ????

 

It’s actually in the interests of both parties to ensure they both agree on price and both should be responsible for this. 

 

The issue of course is when one party is trying to pull a fast one and is deliberately misleading, Or, when assumptions are made and there are no clarifying comments. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ujayujay]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

160b for a 2km fare - is he having a laugh, max 100b

 

30b minimum fare for 1km -  10b for 1 extra km and 5b for each km thereafter is the official fare

....Cheap Charlies all the while????????????????????

[Spock]

21 minutes ago, ujayujay said:

....Cheap Charlies all the while????????????????????

The 'official fare' quoted seems about right.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, ujayujay said:

....Cheap Charlies all the while????????????????????

Some folk never seem to understand those who object on principle to being taken for a mug.

 

They blindly throw out phrases such as 'cheap-charly' while regularly being taken for a fool by many people around them.

 

Many of us do not like it but take the approach to avoid such characters wherever possible, or just pay up and avoid conflict....    

 

Not agreeing with the practices employed by some has nothing to do with being a cheap-charly and everything to do with not liking it when they feel someone is trying to take advantage of them. 

 

Perhaps others are so used to being taken advantage of its an everyday facet of their life......  but that dosen’t mean they aren’t cheap charlies... it just means their more relaxed about such issues or just born mugs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

But, easy to point to yourself and your friend and say "80 baht?" The win points to each in turn and says "You 80 baht" and to your friend "You 80 baht". Maybe you come back with 120. Whatever.

The unwary don't think to do that and assume the price quoted includes both. And the Win knows they will.

 

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

It's all down to communication. 99% of disagreements are down to misunderstandings.

But this is a case in which the Win encourages the misunderstanding. It is in fact a scam and not uncommon.

 

The Win may also pretend he didn't understand or the tourist had agreed on price higher than he actually did. Tourist quoted B20, driver claims the tourist said 200. Intimidation may ensue, though it usually doesn't result in a knife drawn.

[bradiston]

1 minute ago, BigStar said:

The unwary don't think to do that and assume the price quoted includes both. And the Win knows they will.

 

But this is a case in which the Win encourages the misunderstanding. It is in fact a scam and not uncommon.

 

The Win may also pretend he didn't understand or the tourist had agreed on price higher than he actually did. Tourist quoted B20, driver claims the tourist said 200. Intimidation may ensue, though it usually doesn't result in a knife drawn.

In Pattaya, I use Wins only on the odd occasion, usually to and from a bus drop off point or bus station. I've never had a problem with them EVER! I'm only saying this as I find it hard to believe that long term stayers here in Thailand are so prone to this alleged scam. You must see it coming, yet many people on this forum say it happens all the time. I'm intrigued to know how they know it happens "all the time". Surely not to them? Then from where are they getting their stats?

[Photoguy21]

16 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

I would ask the farangs what was the price for the fare in the first place.Being pattaya maybe the driver was trying his luck maybe.I don,t know but showing a knife and saying i will kill you will not go down well  around town

Do you think he may have harmed the impeccable image of Pattaya? 

[BigStar]

9 minutes ago, bradiston said:

In Pattaya, I use Wins only on the odd occasion, usually to and from a bus drop off point or bus station.

Odd occasion, right. Bus station prices are fixed. Frequent occasions might lead to a different impression, but you say you know how to negotiate beforehand. Here, we're talking about the unwary.

 

9 minutes ago, bradiston said:

long term stayers here in Thailand are so prone to this alleged scam. You must see it coming, yet many people on this forum say it happens all the time. I'm intrigued to know how they know it happens "all the time". Surely not to them? Then from where are they getting their stats?

I don't think long-term stayers are prone to the scam, but a high percentage of them know the scam from their early days as tourists using the Wins.

 

Now in recent years the bikes have been much more regulated than in the past (that a lot of long-term stayers may remember). Some stations actually have posted prices nowadays. That was never the case before. Expecting better behavior owing to the regulation may even lead to relaxing one's guard and then--being scammed. ????

 

So whether it actually happens "all the time now" is open to question, but you know how our forum is.

Edited April 15, 2023 by BigStar

[NextG]

17 minutes ago, bradiston said:

In Pattaya, I use Wins only on the odd occasion, usually to and from a bus drop off point or bus station. I've never had a problem with them EVER! I'm only saying this as I find it hard to believe that long term stayers here in Thailand are so prone to this alleged scam. You must see it coming, yet many people on this forum say it happens all the time. I'm intrigued to know how they know it happens "all the time". Surely not to them? Then from where are they getting their stats?

We see passengers regularly loaded two to a single bike. When the potential customers complain and insist on separate bikes, they are quoted an even higher price. That is all part of the scam. There is no way that anyone but the uninitiated would imagine the price of a short ride from CF to Soi 6 on a single bike would be 160 baht. No one wants to sit squashed up three to a bike unless there is an attractive member of the gender to whom you are attracted involved. 
The Win is just carrying on the scam that is repeated in tourist centres throughout Thailand. I saw it first in the south of Thailand many moons ago and we would laugh and walk away from the riders who tried it on and simply flag down another bike. Of course the riders agreed to separate bikes immediately afterwards. But we noticed the newbies were regularly taken in by this, as they thought it was normal. Who wants to sit uncomfortably and pay the same price as a single bike?? These days there are threats of intimidation from the ranks, so a rider outside their rank dare not stop for a passenger near someone else’s rank. 
You clearly don’t have a clue as to what goes on. It’s a well worn scam. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by NextG

[bradiston]

1 minute ago, BigStar said:

Odd occasion, right. Bus station prices are fixed. Frequent occasions might lead to a different impression, but you say you know how to negotiate beforehand. Here, we're talking about the unwary.

 

I don't think long-term stayers are prone to the scam, but a high percentage of them know the scam from their early days as tourists using the Wins. Now in recent years the bikes have been much more regulated than in the past (that a lot of long-term stayers may remember). Some stations actually have posted prices nowadays. That was never the case before. So whether it actually happens "all the time now" is open to question, but you know how our forum is.

Quite so. I also should have seen this coming! Just a final submission. I was a cabbie in London for 15 years. You have to deal with all sorts, drunks of every description, bilkers (those who run off without paying), pukers, violence, spitting, damage to the cab, threats etc etc. It can get stressful. I sympathize with the 60 yo geezer trying to earn a crust. Anyone who thinks it's easy ferrying incoherent foreigners around... Well, rest assured, it's anything but.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

However, since this is a totally unregulated industry, and taxi guys feel they are above the law

Win fares are regulated by the Land Transport dept.

 

From this thread. 

 

"Land Transport Department fare regulations, which state:

Rides of two kilometers or less should not exceed 25 baht.

The third through fifth kilometer adds only 5 baht each to the fare.

Distances of more than five kilometers would remain negotiable.

Those overcharging will be subject to a 5,000 baht fine and/or a six-month suspension of their public-transport driving license."

 

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, bradiston said:

In Pattaya, I use Wins only on the odd occasion, usually to and from a bus drop off point or bus station. I've never had a problem with them EVER! I'm only saying this as I find it hard to believe that long term stayers here in Thailand are so prone to this alleged scam. You must see it coming, yet many people on this forum say it happens all the time. I'm intrigued to know how they know it happens "all the time". Surely not to them? Then from where are they getting their stats?

Lets start from your last comment - hearsay, anecdote and opinion are not stats.

 

‘happens all the time’ - means it happens a lot, more often than we’d expect, not uncommon etc etc.. you get the point. 

 

How do we experienced foreigners living in Thailand who know how to circumnavigate and avoid such scams know they happen all the time ???....  Answer: Because we don't exist on an island, we speak with people, read the news, discuss such topics with numerous friends and draw opinion as to the general frequency with which such issues occur. 

 

 

Thus: IF half the the taxis I try to use try and rip me off, refuse to use the meter, ask for a flat rate etc... I can state... 'it happens all the time’.... technically ‘it happens half the time’... but the colloquialism ‘happens all the time’ is widely understood to mean ‘it’s not uncommon’... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Quite so. I also should have seen this coming! Just a final submission. I was a cabbie in London for 15 years. You have to deal with all sorts, drunks of every description, bilkers (those who run off without paying), pukers, violence, spitting, damage to the cab, threats etc etc. It can get stressful. I sympathize with the 60 yo geezer trying to earn a crust. Anyone who thinks it's easy ferrying incoherent foreigners around... Well, rest assured, it's anything but.

It seems you using your history as an ‘honest cabby’ in a well regulated industry in a country which is better policed with stricter penalties and projecting that to Thailand’s ‘win-riders’ as earning an ‘honest living’... ?

 

Earning a living yes... its tough for many everywhere.....  and yes, many passengers can be utter tools.... 

 

BUT... honest living ???...  hmm...    never heard of these guys as the ‘motorsai-mafia’ ??.... 

 

You really don’ think these guys deliberately stretch the miscommunication to catch tourists out in Exactly the manner BigStar mentions earlier on ?????

 

 

IF many of us are discussing these scams used by Win-Riders, TukTuk drivers and Taxi drivers why do you think that its if they are something which doesn't really happen if most of these guys are salt of the earth honest hard workers ??? (the answer to the rhetorical question is that they are not honest salt of the work hard workers... If they think there is an angle, many will try it on).

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

You must spend a lot of time sitting on a Win rank to see this actually happening. And I don't think you do. So I suggest you're just making up this rubbish. You noticed the newbies...? From what vantage point did you do that? And you say "We see..."? Who's that then? You and you're Win rank spotting chums?

 

And I'm tired of your "You clearly don't have a clue" line of argument. This is just gaslighting. Reported.

 

IF these issues do not occur... why have many of us experienced such attempted scams the past, particularly when we were new here.

 

I’ve had the two for one scam attempted on me. I’ve had the two for one scam successfully applied on me by a TukTuk driver... there has also been plenty of news on this over the years. 

 

I’ve had numerous visitors over the years and these scams have sometimes been attempted on them. 

 

In fact, come to Thailand and as a newbie you are almost guaranteed that someone will try and scam you - fortunately, the scam costs very little and for most its easy to walk away and laugh about it.

 

The events we read of are not one off isolated events....  neither are they attempted on all of the people all of the time...

... Rather experience varies and is often dependent on location and time. The drivers / riders are opportunists who may attempt to pull such stunts if they think they will get away with it. 

 

 

 

[bradiston]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Lets start from your last comment - hearsay, anecdote and opinion are not stats.

 

‘happens all the time’ - means it happens a lot, more often than we’d expect, not uncommon etc etc.. you get the point. 

 

How do we experienced foreigners living in Thailand who know how to circumnavigate and avoid such scams know they happen all the time ???....  Answer: Because we don't exist on an island, we speak with people, read the news, discuss such topics with numerous friends and draw opinion as to the general frequency with which such issues occur. 

 

 

Thus: IF half the the taxis I try to use try and rip me off, refuse to use the meter, ask for a flat rate etc... I can state... 'it happens all the time’.... technically ‘it happens half the time’... but the colloquialism ‘happens all the time’ is widely understood to mean ‘it’s not uncommon’... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've lived here for 8 years. Not as long as some, for sure. I've never read nor heard of this hearsay scam, as that's what it now appears to be. Loading up 2 passengers on a bike then charging them double? Risk losing your licence? Getting into a fight about it? Nope, case dismissed.

 

Your experience seems centered around taxis and meters. Yes, I'm sure that goes on all the time.

[papa al]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

You might want to ruin ...

You mightn't be so...

... you paying chased around . 

huh?

 

[Cricky]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Pattaya motorcycle taxi rider threatens to kill 2 foreigners 

Drink and drive, it's a much safer option.

 

[quake]

3 minutes ago, Cricky said:

Drink and drive, it's a much safer option.

 

You naughty boy. 

[Scott]

A baiting post has been reported and removed.  Keep it civil, please.

 

[billd766]

10 hours ago, markclover said:

Drinks at Starbucks everyday and pays 80,000 in rent.  Argues over 40 baht.

And you know this as a fact, yes?

[papa al]

10 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Well, I don't think 

Agree

[Woof999]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

And once someone produces a knife and tries to use it, any sympathy they might have garnered goes out the window.

Exactly this. The nutter pulled a knife. If I was a betting man (which I am, but not in Thailand), I'd wager it was a knife he was carrying.

 

Crazy, but also sadly not surprising, that some here are sticking up for the Win muppet.