UK government scraps plan to replace all EU laws by the end of 2023

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But the UK isn't doing much worse than everyone else though

"isn't doing much worse"? - is that the best you can do????

 

Before Brexit UK was on course to be the biggest economy in the EU - now we are back to being the "sick man of Europe" - Brexit has ruined 40 years of progress. It's a pity we didn't spend more on a decent Euro-=style education system or we wouldn't have ended up with so many ill-educated brexiteers.

You can blame "outside" force" - like all dictators and paranoids do, but the truth is that Brexit is at the root of all the UK's failings.

Edited May 17, 2023 by kwilco

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

"isn't doing much worse"? - is that the best you can do????

 

Well yes, as your claim was that the UK economy is so much worse than everyone else , the best I could do was to point out that you are wrong about that and state that the UK isn't much worse than other Countries 

[Mac Mickmanus]

19 minutes ago, kwilco said:

"isn't doing much worse"? - is that the best you can do????

 

Before Brexit UK was on course to be the biggest economy in the EU - now we are back to being the "sick man of Europe" - Brexit has ruined 40 years of progress. It's a pity we didn't spend more on a decent Euro-=style education system or we wouldn't have ended up with so many ill-educated brexiteers.

You can blame "outside" force" - like all dictators and paranoids do, but the truth is that Brexit is at the root of all the UK's failings.

Its not all about money and profit and getting as rich as you can , there are other things that some people find important .

   Some people care about other things, rather than just money and wealth and enriching themselves 

[kwilco]

 

"

 there are other things that some people find important .

   Some people care about other things, rather than just money and wealth and enriching themselves "

 

Really? and what are they????

 

What has Brexit ever done for you? The answer is trash the UK.

 

1. Economic Impact: negative economic consequences. leaving the EU has led to trade barriers, increased costs, and uncertainty, which has harmed businesses and investment. Membership in the EU gave the UK with access to the  huge single market, allowing free movement of goods, services, capital, and people. Leaving the EU meant the UK has had to negotiate new trade agreements, which have. existing economic relationships. Most of the “new deals” are just rubber stamping or reinstating deals that became invalid on leaving or some are even regarded as disadvantageous (v. Australia trade deal) they are also miniscule compared to the EU trade agreements we had.
2. Trade Disruption: Brexit has disrupted of trade between the UK and the EU. The EU was by far the UK's largest trading partner. Leaving the single market and customs union has led to new tariffs, customs checks, and regulatory barriers delays and confusion at borders. These barriers hinder trade flows, increase costs for businesses, and impact industries such as manufacturing, agriculture, and services. See Vauxhall today!
3. Loss of Influence: Brexit has seriously damaged the influence of the UK on the global stage. As a member of the EU, the UK had a say in shaping EU policies and regulations. Leaving the EU means the UK would no longer has a direct role in decision-making processes that affected its interests. The UK now has far less influence in international affairs and has reduced bargaining power in global trade negotiations.
4. Uncertainty and Instability: Brexit introduced a high level of uncertainty, which is a potential risk to the UK's economy and stability. The process of negotiating new trade deals and establishing new relationships with other countries will take years, leaving businesses and investors in a state of limbo, and in the end will never replace the trade deals we had with the EU. Uncertainty discourages investment, leads to a slowdown in economic growth, and impact job security. This on top of the world’s economic woes.
5. Disintegration of the United Kingdom: Brexit has laid bare the disunity within the United Kingdom itself. The majority of Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU Wales too is now pro EU -  leaving against their wishes has increased support for independence. Brexit very possibly will lead to the breakup of the UK, creating political and constitutional challenges. Just because most people want to re-join.
6. Impact on Freedom of Movement: EU membership allowed UK citizens to live, work, and study in other EU member states, and vice versa. Leaving the EU has destroyed these freedoms and created barriers to movement. This negatively affects individuals who benefited from such opportunities and hinder cultural exchange and cooperation. It has destroyed hundreds of small businesses.

 

As yet no-one has a single convincing concrete argument as to why the UK left – unless they wanted to be an international pariah.

 

At least most Brexiteers now admit that it has damaged the economy,  (see post above) the NHS (where is that £350 million?) the Unity of the kingdom, the motor industry and attitude to the rest of the world and they try to invoke the "Dunkirk Spirit" - a reaction to a major disaster!? Well at least they've got that right.

Edited May 17, 2023 by kwilco

[josephbloggs]

50 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its not all about money and profit and getting as rich as you can , there are other things that some people find important .

   Some people care about other things, rather than just money and wealth and enriching themselves 

Pretty sure the people who have to use food banks wouldn't mind a bit of money, and those that have lost their jobs or business as a consequence of Brexit wouldn't mind either. So easy for you to say it's not important.

And seriously, when someone points out that post-Brexit the economy is tanking, businesses are closing, we've lost all our regional influence, we're the "sick man of Europe", your best comeback is "some people care about other things"? So what are these "other things" that poor people care about? Keeping "immigrants" out trumps having a vibrant economy, a motor industry, a fishing industry, a voice and huge influence over the world's biggest trading bloc? Or something else? What do these people really care about?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Pretty sure the people who have to use food banks wouldn't mind a bit of money, and those that have lost their jobs or business as a consequence of Brexit wouldn't mind either. So easy for you to say it's not important.

And seriously, when someone points out that post-Brexit the economy is tanking, businesses are closing, we've lost all our regional influence, we're the "sick man of Europe", your best comeback is "some people care about other things"? So what are these "other things" that poor people care about? Keeping "immigrants" out trumps having a vibrant economy, a motor industry, a fishing industry, a voice and huge influence over the world's biggest trading bloc? Or something else? What do these people really care about?

Go and ask the poor people in food banks what they care about, I cannot speak on their behalf 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Because Farage was such an unimportant figure in the Leave campaign.? You really want to go with that? Give me a break.

And thanks for offering a contrary-to-fact assertion. That's the kind of thing that's worth the pixels it's printed in and no more.

You miss the fact that, while Farage was a leader of one of the two main Leave campaigns, it would have not made a difference. He would not have succeeded in getting a second go. Up to you. 

[josephbloggs]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Go and ask the poor people in food banks what they care about, I cannot speak on their behalf 

Yet you just did speak on people's behalf!

"There are other things that some people find important . Some people care about other things, rather than just money and wealth and enriching themselves."

Anyway pretty sure if you ask people in a food bank what they care about the answer will be "food". 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

Yet you just did speak on people's behalf!

"There are other things that some people find important . Some people care about other things, rather than just money and wealth and enriching themselves."

Anyway pretty sure if you ask people in a food bank what they care about the answer will be "food". 

I was speaking about myself and other like minded people.

I cannot speak on behalf of other  people with a different opinion 

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

"

 there are other things that some people find important .

   Some people care about other things, rather than just money and wealth and enriching themselves "

 

Really? and what are they????

 

What has Brexit ever done for you? The answer is trash the UK.

 

1. Economic Impact: negative economic consequences. leaving the EU has led to trade barriers, increased costs, and uncertainty, which has harmed businesses and investment. Membership in the EU gave the UK with access to the  huge single market, allowing free movement of goods, services, capital, and people. Leaving the EU meant the UK has had to negotiate new trade agreements, which have. existing economic relationships. Most of the “new deals” are just rubber stamping or reinstating deals that became invalid on leaving or some are even regarded as disadvantageous (v. Australia trade deal) they are also miniscule compared to the EU trade agreements we had.
2. Trade Disruption: Brexit has disrupted of trade between the UK and the EU. The EU was by far the UK's largest trading partner. Leaving the single market and customs union has led to new tariffs, customs checks, and regulatory barriers delays and confusion at borders. These barriers hinder trade flows, increase costs for businesses, and impact industries such as manufacturing, agriculture, and services. See Vauxhall today!
3. Loss of Influence: Brexit has seriously damaged the influence of the UK on the global stage. As a member of the EU, the UK had a say in shaping EU policies and regulations. Leaving the EU means the UK would no longer has a direct role in decision-making processes that affected its interests. The UK now has far less influence in international affairs and has reduced bargaining power in global trade negotiations.
4. Uncertainty and Instability: Brexit introduced a high level of uncertainty, which is a potential risk to the UK's economy and stability. The process of negotiating new trade deals and establishing new relationships with other countries will take years, leaving businesses and investors in a state of limbo, and in the end will never replace the trade deals we had with the EU. Uncertainty discourages investment, leads to a slowdown in economic growth, and impact job security. This on top of the world’s economic woes.
5. Disintegration of the United Kingdom: Brexit has laid bare the disunity within the United Kingdom itself. The majority of Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU Wales too is now pro EU -  leaving against their wishes has increased support for independence. Brexit very possibly will lead to the breakup of the UK, creating political and constitutional challenges. Just because most people want to re-join.
6. Impact on Freedom of Movement: EU membership allowed UK citizens to live, work, and study in other EU member states, and vice versa. Leaving the EU has destroyed these freedoms and created barriers to movement. This negatively affects individuals who benefited from such opportunities and hinder cultural exchange and cooperation. It has destroyed hundreds of small businesses.

 

As yet no-one has a single convincing concrete argument as to why the UK left – unless they wanted to be an international pariah.

 

At least most Brexiteers now admit that it has damaged the economy,  (see post above) the NHS (where is that £350 million?) the Unity of the kingdom, the motor industry and attitude to the rest of the world and they try to invoke the "Dunkirk Spirit" - a reaction to a major disaster!? Well at least they've got that right.

You criticize UK education - is that why you don't know how to reference a link properly? 

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Pretty sure the people who have to use food banks wouldn't mind a bit of money, and those that have lost their jobs or business as a consequence of Brexit wouldn't mind either. So easy for you to say it's not important.

And seriously, when someone points out that post-Brexit the economy is tanking, businesses are closing, we've lost all our regional influence, we're the "sick man of Europe", your best comeback is "some people care about other things"? So what are these "other things" that poor people care about? Keeping "immigrants" out trumps having a vibrant economy, a motor industry, a fishing industry, a voice and huge influence over the world's biggest trading bloc? Or something else? What do these people really care about?

Motor industry?

Fishing industry?

Huge influence?

 

Get help.

[josephbloggs]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Motor industry?

Yes. Vauxhall potentially pulling out of the UK now.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vauxhall-warns-last-uk-plants-to-close-if-brexit-deal-is-not-renegotiated-wjwgbcjbn#:~:text=The international automotive giant behind,sourcing batteries for electric vehicles.

Quote

Fishing industry?

Yes. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1745160/brexit-deal-uk-fishing-industry-eu-boris-johnson-tories-june-mummery

 

Quote

Huge influence?

You think we didn't have a huge influence in the EU? We had powers no one else had (we could opt out of things we didn't want), we could shape policy. we had negotiated huge rebates, we could vote, we could debate. 

 

Quote

Get help.

Righty ho. And if you didn't believe we had a huge influence inside the EU then it is you that needs help.

[RayC]

49 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You miss the fact that, while Farage was a leader of one of the two main Leave campaigns, it would have not made a difference. He would not have succeeded in getting a second go. Up to you. 

And that's a fact?

 

Off hand, I can't think of one thing that I agree with Farage about, however it would be churlish not to acknowledge his success in getting a referendum on Brexit. Imo without him, there would have been no Brexit. If the vote had been 'Yes' I imagine that he would have been banging on about another referendum and that it would be a lot closer to reality than it is now.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

You miss the fact that, while Farage was a leader of one of the two main Leave campaigns, it would have not made a difference. He would not have succeeded in getting a second go. Up to you. 

Unlike you, apparently, I don't have access to that alternate universe in which Brexit lost. So I have no way of knowing how it would have turned out had Remain won.

[candide]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Motor industry?

Fishing industry?

Huge influence?

 

Get help.

Let's have a look at the car production.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/car-production

[JustAnotherHun]

6 minutes ago, candide said:

Let's have a look at the car production.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/car-production

I doubt that car production says anything about Brexit.

Compareable with Germany:

2014: 5.6 mio

2016: 5.75 mio

2018: 5.12 mio

2020: 3.51 mio

2021: 3.10 mio

2022: 3.40 mio.

 

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes. Vauxhall potentially pulling out of the UK now.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vauxhall-warns-last-uk-plants-to-close-if-brexit-deal-is-not-renegotiated-wjwgbcjbn#:~:text=The international automotive giant behind,sourcing batteries for electric vehicles.

Yes. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1745160/brexit-deal-uk-fishing-industry-eu-boris-johnson-tories-june-mummery

 

You think we didn't have a huge influence in the EU? We had powers no one else had (we could opt out of things we didn't want), we could shape policy. we had negotiated huge rebates, we could vote, we could debate. 

 

Righty ho. And if you didn't believe we had a huge influence inside the EU then it is you that needs help.

UK manufacturing and fishing industries all in decline for decades, not all due to the EU but did they grow after we joined the EEC/EU? Never.

 

Rebates were OK in the 80's but mostly given back by Blair. Vetoes and opt-outs have also been lost over the years, as I've already said. The UK joined too late to ever have significant influence. De Gaulle didn't want us in and was right for once.

Edited May 17, 2023 by nauseus

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I doubt that car production says anything about Brexit.

Compareable with Germany:

2014: 5.6 mio

2016: 5.75 mio

2018: 5.12 mio

2020: 3.51 mio

2021: 3.10 mio

2022: 3.40 mio.

 

 

We haven't competed with Germany since their recovery after the war but I wonder what happened in 2020??? Oh wait a minute!

 

It's time for Hint from The Link:

 

Mike Hawes, SMMT Chief Executive, said: “A second consecutive month of growth for UK car production gives cause for optimism, though volumes are still well below pre-pandemic levels.”

Edited May 17, 2023 by nauseus

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Unlike you, apparently, I don't have access to that alternate universe in which Brexit lost. So I have no way of knowing how it would have turned out had Remain won.

Well that's not what I was talking about but never mind (as ever).

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

And that's a fact?

 

Off hand, I can't think of one thing that I agree with Farage about, however it would be churlish not to acknowledge his success in getting a referendum on Brexit. Imo without him, there would have been no Brexit. If the vote had been 'Yes' I imagine that he would have been banging on about another referendum and that it would be a lot closer to reality than it is now.

If you read what I said then you should be able to see that I did acknowledge his success. I agree with Farage about a lot of things and I'm sure he would have had plenty to say if we had lost. However, through the noise, he would know that the chance was gone. There would have been no second go at it.

Edited May 17, 2023 by nauseus

[JustAnotherHun]

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

We haven't competed with Germany since their recovery after the war but I wonder what happened in 2020??? 

That was not my point. I listed the German data to show that the declining car production in GB has not necessarily to do with Brexit.

Edited May 17, 2023 by JustAnotherHun

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Let's have a look at the car production.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/car-production

The U.K doesn't have the God given right to be the best at everything , other Countries can be better then the U.K 

   The days of the U.K dominating the world have long gone 

[josephbloggs]

32 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K doesn't have the God given right to be the best at everything , other Countries can be better then the U.K 

   The days of the U.K dominating the world have long gone 

In summary:

People are poor, businesses have closed but it's ok because "some people care about other stuff".

And industries being in decline is ok because we don't have any right to be better than other countries for ever.

Thank you.

[youreavinalaff]

57 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

In summary:

People are poor, businesses have closed but it's ok because "some people care about other stuff".

And industries being in decline is ok because we don't have any right to be better than other countries for ever.

Thank you.

There have always been poor people. There have always been businesses closing down. Industry took a massive hit during lockdowns and is still recovering. 

 

The world economy is still recovering. All of the above is true in countries the world over.

 

You must have forgotten that. Or just ignored it to suit yourself.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[RayC]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

If you read what I said then you should be able to see that I did acknowledge his success. I agree with Farage about a lot of things and I'm sure he would have had plenty to say if we had lost. However, through the noise, he would know that the chance was gone. There would have been no second go at it.

 

 

Perhaps a little unfair of me to take issue with you on this matter as you are by no means the worse offender, but an awful lot of opinion is presented as fact.

[nauseus]

Appreciated. My post was essentially my opinion. Farage would not have been able to change a remain vote and I think he is intelligent enough to know that and I do believe that there would not have been any meaningful outcry from leavers for another referendum in the case that remain had won. That is because those who voted leave are also fairly democratic and would respect the result, either way.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I do believe that there would not have been any meaningful outcry from leavers for another referendum in the case that remain had won. 

Had there been, Remainers would have been up in arms about the prospect of people trying to overturn the democracy of a one and only referendum.

 

Shame they can't think that way now.

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

You criticize UK education - is that why you don't know how to reference a link properly? 

Most certainly do - what do you want a link for?

[kwilco]

16 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Had there been, Remainers would have been up in arms about the prospect of people trying to overturn the democracy of a one and only referendum.

 

Shame they can't think that way now.

"Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win" - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

"Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win" - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

Oh dear. What exactly does that have to do with my post, regarding Remainers? 

Edited May 17, 2023 by youreavinalaff