Move Forward party optimistic of positive response from senators

[smedly]

5 hours ago, anchadian said:

It wont be the unelected senators that derail the party, it will be Pita's media shares holding/ownership ruling by the EC which, according to the B.P, is expected soon.

the company no longer exists so he holds shares in nothing

[mfd101]

The lower house could - if it has the guts - simply ignore the Senate on the basis that its very existence is unconstitutional, the current 'Constitution' was imposed unconstitutionally & undemocratically etc etc. And surrounded by 500,000 voters camped outside, the new government could begin governing.

 

Who would cave in first? It's all a matter of guts and endurance.

[Dogmatix]

Thaksin may face some tough choices too, if Pita fails to form a government and the baton is passed to his nominees to form a government without MFP.

 

1. To get senate support they would have to agree to Prayut or Prawit being PM which would piss off the residual red shirt support base.  

 

2. They need either BJP or the Dems to have a majority in the lower house. BJP will never accept Thaksin's policy to recriminalise cannabis ASAP.  The Dems would be a laughing stock, if they joined a Thaksin government as a teeny partner of their historic enemy. That would alienate the residual die hard yellow shirt supporters. Even with the Dems a PT led government would have a wafer thin majority. They would really need both BJP and Dems to have an unassailable majority.

 

 

[chang1]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

confident that senators will have positive opinion of the party once they see its memorandum of understanding

Sounds like they will do a deal with the senators.

[MrMojoRisin]

51 minutes ago, h90 said:

They did not win enough to rule alone so they must compromise with others. They got like 36% (don't have the number) at a 75% turnout. So 73% did not vote for them. Means they must compromise and try to unite people.

How are they acting like spoilt brats?
 

They are getting on perfectly fine with their coalition partners, the only issue is the UNELECTED Senators. Why should anyone compromise with unrepresentative swill?

 

Given that the MF coalition controls nearly 2/3s of the lower house seats, I’d say the people are pretty well united.

 

What percentage of people did not vote for Prayuth? (Hint, starts with a 9)

 

 

[h90]

36 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

How are they acting like spoilt brats?
 

They are getting on perfectly fine with their coalition partners, the only issue is the UNELECTED Senators. Why should anyone compromise with unrepresentative swill?

 

Given that the MF coalition controls nearly 2/3s of the lower house seats, I’d say the people are pretty well united.

 

What percentage of people did not vote for Prayuth? (Hint, starts with a 9)

 

 

As you may heard many of the coalition partner do not want to have the 112 changes in their MOA. They will have to compromise with the senators. The senators can not vote against the majority of the house. If they fail to gain a majority of both houses the second strongest party will try. PTP said already they don't want to change the 112.

Prayuth is out, he lost..... that has nothing to do with Prayuth anymore.

[bamnutsak]

45 minutes ago, h90 said:

As you may heard many of the coalition partner do not want to have the 112 changes in their MOA.

It is sad that MoveForward deceived voters by claiming to be in favor of reforms on the Institution. Many of their supporters were drawn to the party for this stance. I suspect MVF leaders knew ahead of time they wouldn't get past week 2 with this on the agenda. Breaking this sort of trust with the public is almost worse than promising thousands of baht in welfare payments, and then not fulfilling the promise.

 

Their MOU (as leaked, it could be fake) is a useless piece of trash.

 

Their ability to govern is doomed. Even if they form a governemnt they will accomplish little. It was a good ride for 8 days, but everyone woke up today to the reality which is Thailand's inability to progress, and ease with which they regress.

 

 

[candide]

10 hours ago, Muzzique said:

 

Of course. They have nothing to lose. After all there is no corruption and none of them face lengthy prison sentences if the new government gets power.

 

It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

 

 

In Thailand, an elected government doesn't control the judiciary. 

[Reigntax]

3 hours ago, h90 said:

how is economic grow and inflation at the moment in UK? Must be fantastic thanks to no coups and a 1000 year old constitution.

An obvious Prayuth lapdog would always deflect to an irrelevant topic.

[candide]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

The lower house could - if it has the guts - simply ignore the Senate on the basis that its very existence is unconstitutional, the current 'Constitution' was imposed unconstitutionally & undemocratically etc etc. And surrounded by 500,000 voters camped outside, the new government could begin governing.

 

Who would cave in first? It's all a matter of guts and endurance.

The courts won't agree with your analysis...

[WHansen]

46 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

It is sad that MoveForward deceived voters by claiming to be in favor of reforms on the Institution. Many of their supporters were drawn to the party for this stance. I suspect MVF leaders knew ahead of time they wouldn't get past week 2 with this on the agenda. Breaking this sort of trust with the public is almost worse than promising thousands of baht in welfare payments, and then not fulfilling the promise.

 

Their MOU (as leaked, it could be fake) is a useless piece of trash.

 

Their ability to govern is doomed. Even if they form a governemnt they will accomplish little. It was a good ride for 8 days, but everyone woke up today to the reality which is Thailand's inability to progress, and ease with which they regress.

 

 

If they don't make waves now, the tsunami can arrive later

[Eric Loh]

39 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

It is sad that MoveForward deceived voters by claiming to be in favor of reforms on the Institution. Many of their supporters were drawn to the party for this stance. I suspect MVF leaders knew ahead of time they wouldn't get past week 2 with this on the agenda. Breaking this sort of trust with the public is almost worse than promising thousands of baht in welfare payments, and then not fulfilling the promise.

 

Their MOU (as leaked, it could be fake) is a useless piece of trash.

 

Their ability to govern is doomed. Even if they form a governemnt they will accomplish little. It was a good ride for 8 days, but everyone woke up today to the reality which is Thailand's inability to progress, and ease with which they regress.

 

 

Move Forward Party is just being fair to its coalition parties who hold different views on 112. They have not abandon reforming 112 but will exclude this for its first 100 days in office. The matter will be debated and dealt with when the Parliament convene. Bit harsh to call the MOU which contain a comprehensive list of progressive agenda which included bureaucracy reform, removing military conscription, plan for southern peace, fight against corruption, regulating cannabis and improving the education. By the way, they haven't start governing but you have declared they are doomed. That is quite animus towards the party who has the majority backing. 

[h90]

57 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

It is sad that MoveForward deceived voters by claiming to be in favor of reforms on the Institution. Many of their supporters were drawn to the party for this stance. I suspect MVF leaders knew ahead of time they wouldn't get past week 2 with this on the agenda. Breaking this sort of trust with the public is almost worse than promising thousands of baht in welfare payments, and then not fulfilling the promise.

 

Their MOU (as leaked, it could be fake) is a useless piece of trash.

 

Their ability to govern is doomed. Even if they form a governemnt they will accomplish little. It was a good ride for 8 days, but everyone woke up today to the reality which is Thailand's inability to progress, and ease with which they regress.

 

 

I think they did not expect to win.....You can promise everything if you don't get the power. The win was a surprise and now they slowly wake up.

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, h90 said:

how is economic grow and inflation at the moment in UK? Must be fantastic thanks to no coups and a 1000 year old constitution.

That's just a total straw man argument. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with economic performance, it's about systems of government.

[sambum]

13 hours ago, Enoon said:

It would certainly be nice to know how many were in the group.

 

Also how many of them, if any, were Army.

 

 

 

 

As I understand it - all Senators are "ARMY"!

[h90]

8 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

That's just a total straw man argument. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with economic performance, it's about systems of government.

Normal people care about their living, if they earn good money, have a new car and be confident that their children will have it even better. If it is safe.
A very small amount of well fed people worry about political systems.....They get angry if they have no future, not when their leader makes brilliant decisions in an undemocratic way. I have a lot contacts to China....As long as the money is good and there are no lockdowns they are happy with their government. No one care about the system.
(Which than complete turned when they had the hard Covid restrictions).

[h90]

3 minutes ago, sambum said:

As I understand it - all Senators are "ARMY"!

I don't know how will be the next group selected? Would be interesting if the new government will select the new senators?

[bamnutsak]

43 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Bit harsh to call the MOU which contain a comprehensive list of progressive agenda which included bureaucracy reform, removing military conscription, plan for southern peace, fight against corruption, regulating cannabis and improving the education.

That 23 point MoU is all fluff, they won't get any of those done. I believe in aspirations, but not unicorns.

 

43 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

By the way, they haven't start governing but you have declared they are doomed. That is quite animus towards the party who has the majority backing. 

"Doomed" is my projection of their future lack of success. And it's not hostility. I respect/support their positions, and the all of Thais who voted for them. I just feel disappointed that they caved so quickly. They will not get any LM reforms, or Military reforms. Ever.

 

 

I get that people are saying "be patient", but I fear the best time to move quickly is now. Waiting only serves the powers that be.

 

 

I hope I am wrong.

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by bamnutsak

[bamnutsak]

42 minutes ago, WHansen said:

If they don't make waves now, the tsunami can arrive later

I get the parable/meaning, but do you really think all the forces allied against LM/military reforms today are going to cave in the future just because you didn't make waves today?

[BangkokReady]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

and hope that the new government will not cause any more political conflict

Isn't political conflict good?  We want politicians constantly challenging each other on both sides, surely?  To hold each other accountable and ensure that policy is well thought out and debated?

[Eric Loh]

25 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

That 23 point MoU is all fluff, they won't get any of those done. I believe in aspirations, but not unicorns.

 

"Doomed" is my projection of their future lack of success. And it's not hostility. I respect/support their positions, and the majority of Thais who voted for them. I just feel disappointed that they caved so quickly. They will not get any LM reforms, or Military reforms. Ever.

 

 

I get that people are saying "be patient", but I fear the best time to move quickly is now. Waiting only serves the powers that be.

 

 

I hope I am wrong.

 

They surprised you; didn't they with the big win and became the lead party in the coalition. Most thought they were unicorn party full of fluff and will not achieve the hype generated. But they did the aspiration part and now on the verge of becoming the government. Sure they want to move quickly but have to pragmatic in their approach. Not their fault for not moving faster. They are braved enough to pledge for reforms of entrenched and difficult but necessary policies that have stagnated Thailand. I wish them the very best. 

[fusion58]

5 hours ago, Reigntax said:

The Move Forward Party being held up by the Move Backwards Prayuth lapdogs!!

Yep.

 

Conservatives have just one gear: reverse.

[connda]

10 hours ago, anchadian said:

It wont be the unelected senators that derail the party, it will be Pita's media shares holding/ownership ruling by the EC which, according to the B.P, is expected soon.

Yep! 

[candide]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

I don't know how will be the next group selected? Would be interesting if the new government will select the new senators?

In Thailand, It's usually not elected people who appoint appointed people. As a general rule, appointed people appoint each other (with approval from high above).

 

In this particular case, there is a precise process described in the constitution, they won't be appointed by the government as usual (the link has been posted in one the threads. They will be appointed by selection committees mainly composed of appointed people. It is not very clear who will appoint the selection committees, but I bet it won't be the government.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Yep! 

The share ownership ruling by EC will only disqualified K Pita and will not derailed the party. The party still remained as the leader of the coalition. In any case, EC disqualification should be investigated before the election; not after. Case is weak. 

[cncltd1973]

Thais are so full hope, until reality sets in...

[Srikcir]

15 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Have they ever, the hand picked chosen ones?

 

From the link:

He said that, after an extraordinary meeting of the Senate next Tuesday, senators are expected to hold an informal meeting to discuss how they should vote on the party’s prime ministerial candidate, Pita Limjaroenrat.

 

Proof that their vote is not a personal vote, more of a collective group decision to decide who gets into power.

They may want to get guidance from the Supreme Commander of the military aka Head of State who is necessay for endorsement of the new PM and Cabinet.