‘Last push’ to get injured English tourist stuck in Thailand hospital back home

[stevenl]

51 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Thailand should provide emergency care for foreigners as per reciprocal treatment given to Thais when abroad. The UK provides free emergency treatment to all foreigners when attending a NHS hospital. 

I know for Schengen health insurance is a visa requirement. Strange that the UK doesn't have that as a requirement.

[Ralf001]

21 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Then you can't fix stupid.

Darwin can !

[Rimmer]

An overtly racist troll post has been removed

[thailand49]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, medical hubs are about money. What is your point regarding the topic at hand?

my point based on story and comments made to me. 

the reason this individual hasn't gone home is simple money,  the hospital won't release him until the bill is paid.  As Thailand promote itself as a medical hub it is about the oath of treating patient first first and foremost is money. 

A remark was made to me that everywhere is about money I remarked back that is the point. 

Now I wonder what is your point! 

[thailand49]

18 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

If you think Thailand has to be like US or other western countries, you are the dreamer, not me.

It's quite easy. The guy in the topic either had no sufficient insurance or he drove under circumstances that were not covered.

 

So who should have to pay for such a moronic behavior? Thailand? GB? The hospital?

If things are so much better in other countries, idiots like him better should stay there.

Thailand doesn't have to be like the U. S.  they can be better and that is simply trying to ahere to the principle of treating a patient first.  If I'm a dreamer in regards to this principle for Thailand so be it. It is a much smaller country doable in my opinion but the problem why it can't is their greedy leaders. 

For myself I've not said the guy shouldn't pay or he is at fault or not nor have I said others should pay like you! Nor do I know if he is an idiot since we haven't heard from him

i've neither said Thailand should foot the bill my point Thailand leaders promote itself like the medical wonder of the world " medical hub " just Like a year ago promote Thailand as the future " Vaccine hub " yet where is all their so call vaccine or copies. 

I'm not saying hospital can't make money but this story smells as I noted they are holding him hostage. In situation like this work something out with their Embassy and hospital sign notorize document with family that guarantee payment to hospital or underwriter with interest if default the result would the same as any loan from a bank in your country one can't default declaring Bankruptcy. I'm sure elected leaders who are so smart can fix this simple problem. 

Speaking for myself I'm no world traveling like many of you here but I never gave it s second though about insurance when I traveled thatcessctge the last thing on my mind when my parents took me anywhere when I started working I had insurance again never crossed my mind I'm being honest I'll take a wild guess a great majority felt like me whenever they took their two week vacation actually took out travel insurance to cross all their I and T's guess lots of dreamers like me. 

 

Like many of you  I've read lots of articles here about tourist having accidents the venom that is throw out because they travel and don't have coverage as if they never done it in their lives in their youth they had all the answers. We are human some grow up early some never regardless of age you can find many on this board. The 

 

It wasn't under I retired here without insurance from my work.  Shopping around for insurance here realize the money spend wasn't going to cover you for much it wasn't like home one card covers it all here it is purchased Ala Carte and foreign policy don't cover the same for locals.  

 

 

i don't blame Thais who have to do their job the dirty work like standing outside the operating room asking for payment before wheeling in my brothers daughter for her appendicitis operation. Keeping my cousin in the hospital for a week sucking him dry telling him he isn't healthy enough to travel back home that they were in contact with insurance back home waiting for clearance of pacemaker procedure when in fact they never dI'd family checked that no way they would cover a procedure don't in Thailand close to two million baht,  when hospital got the word and he wasn't going to pay that amount all of a sudden he was healthy enough to leave and travel but before he leave now they were willing to do it for 800,000 baht. 

 

When my cousin was finally able to go home visit his Doctor at Stanford medical the diagnoses made at the Thai hospital was completely wrong a first year medical student would have missed. I have plenty of stories as to why I feel this way. 

 

As for Thailand, a country as religious with all their temples praying I wonder how their leaders and business people who own and run hospitals live with themselves.  When it comes to Thailand I expect much more but the greed that seem to consume these people is shameful even to my low standards.

 

Maybe at my old age has made me a dreamer but there seem to be no compassion when it comes to story like these.  <deleted> happen to everyone I'm just glad it hasn't and I've done a lot of dump <deleted> when I was young even today in Thailand.

Just my rant using your quote to get it out nothing personal. 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by thailand49

[domomc]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:09 PM, hkblademan said:

Hate to think how big the outstanding bill is…

Yep & it'll be climbing by each day & thing is even if he'd had insurance it would be null & void if under influence of alcohol.

[richard_smith237]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:19 AM, stevenl said:

I know for Schengen health insurance is a visa requirement. Strange that the UK doesn't have that as a requirement.

Because it vows to treat all people with equality. 

 

That said: the UK ‘could’ insist on Insurance for those applying for Visas, and for those entering visa exempt it could set up reciprocal agreements whereby in-country emergency treatment is free. 

 

Thailand could do the same: i.e. Insist that all ‘visa applicants’ show proof of Visa. 

And then those entering visa exempt fall under a reciprocal agreement whereby emergency treatment in a government hospital is free. 

 

The issue of course here is retiree’s and older folk who would struggle to get the required insurance, many of whom have lived here for decades and have paid tax etc - Thus, I would also like a to see scheme whereby foreigners can ‘pay into’ the Thai national healthcare scheme and ensure they to can receive healthcare while here without being extorted. 

 

The solutions are there and they are not complex in the slightest - the genuine underlying issue is that those in positions of influence and decision making power simply do not care about the ‘genuine’ issue at hand one little bit... However, they care very much about the possibility of ‘a quick cash grab’ by increasing a ’tourist tax’ paid on arrival... or a ‘departure tax’ paid on departure.... They want to do whatever they can to ensure this ‘payment’ remains ‘cash’ and non-digitial and not locked up in tickets etc wherever possible for its far easier to skim and pocket proceeds....  

 

Lets not pretend... all of this discussion has very little about the cost burden of tourists which is negligible when considering the bigger picture... its just about some in higher up positions doing their damnedest to capitalise on the potential of  filling their pockets with a little more - its just about greed and only greed with a  little added polish of being able to deflect and blame tourists / foreigners. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

On 5/26/2023 at 7:11 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Because it vows to treat all people with equality. 

Non-UK resident Brits visiting the UK are charged 1.5X (150%) of the normal cost charged to a Non-UK Citizen… 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/how-to-access-nhs-services-in-england-if-you-are-visiting-from-abroad/#:~:text=If you're not ordinarily,of the national NHS rate.

 

[Andrew65]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:36 AM, JustAnotherHun said:

Another option would be to make a trvel insurance mandatory for everyone who wants to visit the country.

But then I could her the shouting until Germany, I guess :-).

By the way: If a Thai wants to go to Europe (EU) he has to show a health insurance.

When I worked on a temporary 457 visa in Australia many years ago it had to be shown that I had health insurance with the application.

[KhaoYai]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:54 AM, The Fugitive said:

It's people's fixed beliefs (especially the Brits) that need to change. Most would never accept that a hospital could 'keep you prisoner' or, that in the 21st century, any hospital would do (or not do) anthing that would not be in the best interests of the patient.

Nonsense. I wrote a load more but that one word covers everything so I deleted the rest.

[The Fugitive]

4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Nonsense. I wrote a load more but that one word covers everything so I deleted the rest.

True statement. I’m a Brit. Beliefs are just that, not based on experience or rational thinking. Expressions such as; ‘They’d never do that, it wouldn’t be allowed’. These people obviously haven’t been on the receiving end of the UK NHS when there’s a bed crisis or witnessed patient’s notes go missing following inappropriate care and communication failure. Such people will never accept that treatment of a casualty would ever be delayed or discontinued due to lack of funds.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:21 PM, webfact said:

He won’t be allowed to leave until the bill is completed… We have paid £12,500, but they are still very demanding for the rest.”

"Very demanding"?   Of course they are, the hospital needs to be paid before he leaves because they know that the family have no money and the chances of the outstanding bill being paid once he's on a plane to the UK is negligible.   Was the family's request for his intensive treatment any less "demanding", do they just expect free treatment for the unpaid portion of the care they incurred that saved his life? 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:08 PM, sqwakvfr said:

This is the time when an Embassy can get involved and work with the hospital and the family to ensure payments are made in the future.

No, it is not, the embassies are not there to negotiate payment plans for expenses incurred by their nationals.   How could the embassy guarantee that the family pays the outstanding bills?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:11 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Thailand is proposing a 1000 Baht departure tax

No, Thailand is not proposing that!

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:36 PM, JustAnotherHun said:

Another option would be to make a trvel insurance mandatory for everyone who wants to visit the country.

Not much point when it seems that most people involved in these accidents void their policies with their behaviour.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:38 PM, Goat said:

I have already chipped in $500 for this kid.

How about you put your hand in your pocket to help him out.

How about less of the gratuitous self-aggrandisement?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:41 PM, Goat said:

how about his tab gets picked up by the British government?

Why expect the UK government to pay and set a precedent for covering overseas bills, does Australia do it for Australians?

Edited May 28, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:42 PM, David Whitemore said:

If that was a Thai person and it happen in the UK, the UK would get that person home

Would it, if there was an outstanding private hospital bill to be paid as in this case?  What makes you think that?

[The Fugitive]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not much point when it seems that most people involved in these accidents void their policies with their behaviour.

You've hit the nail on the head here! Certainly for RTA's and also for such as falling off balconies when heavily intoxicated. As far as I can see, the only solution would be free universal A/E plus all necessary follow-up treatment. Cannot see that happening and many would argue why should it?

[Sheryl]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:08 PM, sqwakvfr said:

I wonder if the hospital will be pressured to let him go?  I would attempt to negotiate a payment plan for the remainder of the bill.  This is the time when an Embassy can get involved and work with the hospital and the family to ensure payments are made in the future.  But just like the US Embassy I doubt the British Embassy wants any part of this.  It would really look bad if his condition worsens while he is being “cared” for while waiting for the remainder of the bill to be paid.  This is the “catch 22’  of this predicament: while he is in the hospital the bill keeps climbing.  So as each day passes the current balance due gets higher and higher until he is discharged.  

Not remotely the Embassy's (UK or any other) job to negotiate costs or payment plan.

 

I much doubt hospital  would agree to a payment plan for a patient being sent back to the UK - they know there is no way to enforce it. 

 

 

[IvorBiggun2]

So what happens next? He can't pay so how does the hospital make him pay? Is he being made to pay bed and board while being confined to the hospital once he's fit to travel?

[ChaiyaTH]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:30 PM, JonnyF said:

Really? I did 3 days at a good private Bangkok hospital following a motorcycle crash in 2020 right before Covid hit. I had 6 broken bones, required MRI scans, xrays, loads of pain meds, slings, dressings etc. and the total was 55,000 Baht or 1300 quid. The bike repair cost double that.

 

7k for 3 days basic care? Either she got ripped off or she was exaggerating for 'likes' IMO.

 

  

Was that after the por lor bor insurance paid 30K baht? Or you only needed to pay 25K yourself? Or did you not know this?

[The Fugitive]

17 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

So what happens next? He can't pay so how does the hospital make him pay? Is he being made to pay bed and board while being confined to the hospital once he's fit to travel?

That's a good question. Can the hospital have it both ways i.e. keep him prisoner AND bill him for the time he's captive? In any event, he will be deteriorating same as everyone who remains immobile for any length of time.

[stevenl]

48 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

That's a good question. Can the hospital have it both ways i.e. keep him prisoner AND bill him for the time he's captive? In any event, he will be deteriorating same as everyone who remains immobile for any length of time.

I think it would depend on his condition. When he can be dismissed he will be, but the hospital will take his passport, report him to immigration, etc. He could still leave the country but it would be much harder.

[IvorBiggun2]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

but the hospital will take his passport,

The hospital has no legal right to take your passport.

 

 

Quote

 

Who can keep your passport?

 

 

The only person who can make you give up your passport is a representative of the government who issued it. Your passport is your government's property, and is issued for you to use.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by IvorBiggun2

[stevenl]

58 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The hospital has no legal right to take your passport.

 

 

 

Firstly, I want to bet they already have it. Secondly, no legal right will prevent them from taking it?

[Andrew65]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Firstly, I want to bet they already have it. Secondly, no legal right will prevent them from taking it?

It might be to do with where they want to check someone's passport because they might need their visa extending. Something they did for an old American friend many years ago at Bumrungrad. Then again, it might be to prevent someone from "doing a runner" when they owe them lots of money?

[IvorBiggun2]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Firstly, I want to bet they already have it. Secondly, no legal right will prevent them from taking it?

I'd bet they haven't got it as he was more than likely not carrying it when arriving at the hospital.

[Gaccha]

He is already home and already in a NHS hospital. 

 

This is the update:

 

"So so so grateful for everyone’s help, we were able to pay a huge chunk of the hospital bill and despite the hospital wanting the rest of the money upfront before leaving, Liam and my dad did not take no for an answer and got on the first flight home.

 

The flights were obviously rough on Liam and he wound up with a huge infection in his neck and went straight to a U.K. hospital and was set up on a ward, he is having antibiotics pumped into him round the clock and lots of tests and scans.

 

He will also need plastic surgery and possible further surgery on his neck as the doctors in Thailand had messed up his neck surgery a lot which we are of course fuming about.

 

They did not leave enough skin to cover his Saliva gland which has led to saliva leaking into his neck wound! The U.K. hospital is disgusted by the level of care he received and said we did the right thing getting him out of there as quick as we could.

 

We still have a large chunk of the bill to pay but we will be communicating with the embassy to help resolve this as we are really unhappy with the treatment he received and the state it’s left him in.

Any further donations will go towards getting Liam back on his feet and trying to help get his life together moving forward from such a traumatic event. It is also likely we will still have to pay the hospital the rest of the bill.

Please keep sharing and donating, any little helps it all adds up and every penny is appreciated greatly. For now though we are just so happy and relieved to have Liam back with us; whether he’s in a hospital or not."

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Gaccha

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

He is already home and already in a NHS hospital. 

 

This is the update:

 

"So so so grateful for everyone’s help, we were able to pay a huge chunk of the hospital bill and despite the hospital wanting the rest of the money upfront before leaving, Liam and my dad did not take no for an answer and got on the first flight home.

 

The flights were obviously rough on Liam and he wound up with a huge infection in his neck and went straight to a U.K. hospital and was set up on a ward, he is having antibiotics pumped into him round the clock and lots of tests and scans.

 

He will also need plastic surgery and possible further surgery on his neck as the doctors in Thailand had messed up his neck surgery a lot which we are of course fuming about.

 

They did not leave enough skin to cover his Saliva gland which has led to saliva leaking into his neck wound! The U.K. hospital is disgusted by the level of care he received and said we did the right thing getting him out of there as quick as we could.

 

We still have a large chunk of the bill to pay but we will be communicating with the embassy to help resolve this as we are really unhappy with the treatment he received and the state it’s left him in.

Any further donations will go towards getting Liam back on his feet and trying to help get his life together moving forward from such a traumatic event. It is also likely we will still have to pay the hospital the rest of the bill.

Please keep sharing and donating, any little helps it all adds up and every penny is appreciated greatly. For now though we are just so happy and relieved to have Liam back with us; whether he’s in a hospital or not."

 

So they're saying 'the hospital messed up so we won't be paying the bill' and ' please keep donating'.