US debt ceiling: Will there be enough time to get a deal through?

[nauseus]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

Really? I'm sure you've got plenty of evidence to contradict mine.

For the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush era the national debt to gdp ratio doubled from 31% to 62%. Bill Clinton raised taxes with a Democratic Congress t(with Republicans claiming it would lead to economic doom)  and by the time his second term was over the deficit had decreased from 62% to 55%. After Bush's tax cuts the ratio climbed back up to 64%. Bush also deregulated the stock market and the banks and then came the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Before covid hit the the ration only increased by about 3 percent.  So without the occurrence of any financial disasters or pandemics , the Republicans added about 44% to the debt to gdp ratio.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

After mentioning the pandemic, you now jump back 40 years to Reagan? Nonsense as ever. I think everyone knows that Covid emergency spending was massive. People now look at the necessity and benefit of this (in hindsight) but at the time of covid I don't think anyone knew what the best course was. I'm sure Biden would have spent more.

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

After mentioning the pandemic, you now jump back 40 years to Reagan? Nonsense as ever. I think everyone knows that Covid emergency spending was massive. People now look at the necessity and benefit of this (in hindsight) but at the time of covid I don't think anyone knew what the best course was. I'm sure Biden would have spent more.

First you denied that tax cuts had substantial effect on the national debt, I purposely excluded assigning responsibilty to cases where national emergencies necessitated increased deficit spending. And thanks for sharing with us your faith based belief that Biden would have spent more. I guess in your world, speculation counts as evidence. 

[nauseus]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Fox News Poll: 71% choose funding Social Security, Medicare over budget cuts

As Congress considers ways to avoid defaulting on the nation’s debt, the latest Fox News survey finds most voters see the national debt situation as a major problem, if not a crisis...

Majorities, including Democrats, Republicans, and independents, oppose reducing Social Security benefits for some future retirees (82% oppose), increasing income tax rates for all Americans (80%), and raising the age for Medicare from 65 to 67 (66%).

On the other hand, majorities favor offering private retirement account options for younger Americans (70% favor) and increasing taxes on incomes over $400,000 a year (68%) and businesses and corporations (63%).

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-71-choose-funding-social-security-medicare-over-budget-cuts

 

 

Yes, everyone loves their benefits now, eh?

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Puppet to who?

Puppet to the string section.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

But there is a painful cure for the rich, IF the GOP are willing to do it.

Even with what you imply, there is still no simple cure this time.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Yes, everyone loves their benefits now, eh?

Are you claiming that Americans are being selfish?

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Even with what you imply, there is still no simple cure this time.

Why are you so negative?

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Even with what you imply, there is still no simple cure this time.

Really, why is that? 

[placeholder]

If Social Security taxes were to be reimiposed upon income exceeding $250,000 per year, not only would Social Security be safe for the next 100 years, but benefits could be raised for the elderly, who have been far more adversely affected by rising costs over the years than most other Americans. This $250,000 was cited before the rise in inflation over the past years or so, so maybe that number would be $275,000 now.

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, placeholder said:

First you denied that tax cuts had substantial effect on the national debt, I purposely excluded assigning responsibility to cases where national emergencies necessitated increased deficit spending. And thanks for sharing with us your faith based belief that Biden would have spent more. I guess in your world, speculation counts as evidence. 

Clinton's tax increases had an easily visible effect and produced some surpluses but these were also enabled by Social Security taxes and a booming economy pre the dot-com crash.

 

The economy is far different now and the debt is so great that the effect of tax cuts would have much smaller overall sway, that is what I said. Yes, raising taxes always brings in extra revenue but doing this right now could crash the economy completely at the same time. 

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Why are you so negative?

Because it gets more difficult and serious every time this happens, plus whatever happens in the US usually has a knock-on effect nearly everywhere else.

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Are you claiming that Americans are being selfish?

They have become too used to freebies and (not) working from home. So has everyone else.

Edited May 25, 2023 by nauseus

[dingdongrb]

Come'on Bidden (aka Mr Puppet),

 

No student loan forgiveness. Most college students take useless majors which there is no demand for, go tp school just to socialize & party, or can't let loose of High School and need something to pacify themselves.

 

Cut back on the disability payments to those that are abusing the system and are just too lazy to work.

 

 

Dump the NASA program or at least cut back. The USA needs to focus on the USA and not other planets. Until all is well in the USA do away with NASA.

 

Eliminate the Red Cross as it mostly benefits other countries and not the USA.

 

Quit hosting the UN HQ and let another country absorb the costs.

 

Free Public Education......  Hardly, until those that don't want to learn and are just a distraction/nuisance/problem and expelled permanently.

 

Just is just a few things the US government can do to free up funds which SHOULD go to benefit the current citizens and not other countries or freeloaders. I could name many more.

 

 

 

[dingdongrb]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If Social Security taxes were to be reimiposed upon income exceeding $250,000 per year, not only would Social Security be safe for the next 100 years, but benefits could be raised for the elderly, who have been far more adversely affected by rising costs over the years than most other Americans. This $250,000 was cited before the rise in inflation over the past years or so, so maybe that number would be $275,000 now.

There should be no cap on SS taxing. SS taxes should continuously be paid regardless of how much money one makes. 

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Clinton's tax increases had an easily visible effect and produced some surpluses but these were also enabled by Social Security taxes and a booming economy pre the dot-com crash.

 

The economy is far different now and the debt is so great that the effect of tax cuts would have much smaller overall sway, that is what I said. Yes, raising taxes always brings in extra revenue but doing this right now could crash the economy completely at the same time. 

That's exactly what Republicans said about Clinton's tax increases last time. Why would tax increases this time  threatened to bring down the economy?

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, dingdongrb said:

There should be no cap on SS taxing. SS taxes should continuously be paid regardless of how much money one makes. 

I agree.

[gargamon]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

Biden can't win the WH again with a default round his neck.

 

Intelligent voters will know it's the right wing republican lunatics that caused the default. That obviously rules out most republican voters. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Because it gets more difficult and serious every time this happens, plus whatever happens in the US usually has a knock-on effect nearly everywhere else.

Then lay the blame where it belongs.

 

At the feet of the GOP, who are more interested in earning brownie points than helping the country out of the mess that they put it in.

[nauseus]

29 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Intelligent voters will know it's the right wing republican lunatics that caused the default. That obviously rules out most republican voters. 

That is not an intelligent thing to say.

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Then lay the blame where it belongs.

 

At the feet of the GOP, who are more interested in earning brownie points than helping the country out of the mess that they put it in.

Laying the blame does not help. Does it?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Laying the blame does not help. Does it?

It will if the republican financial terrorists pull the trigger.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That is not an intelligent thing to say.

I liked it 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Laying the blame does not help. Does it?

Yes it does. However the GOP will not admit to ANY blame, NOR are they willing to get the USA out of the mess that they put it in. They would much rather play political games.

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.

 

[heybruce]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

Clinton's tax increases had an easily visible effect and produced some surpluses but these were also enabled by Social Security taxes and a booming economy pre the dot-com crash.

 

The economy is far different now and the debt is so great that the effect of tax cuts would have much smaller overall sway, that is what I said. Yes, raising taxes always brings in extra revenue but doing this right now could crash the economy completely at the same time. 

In case you haven't noticed, the Fed has been raising interest rates to slow down the economy.  Raising taxes has the same affect with the added benefit of reducing the deficit.

[Jingthing]

Good (albeit predictable) news. Reports are now that a deal is getting closer whereby both sides can claim sound kind of win. You'd have to be insane (like Trump who openly advocated for it) to think defaulting is even remotely acceptable.

Of course it's not over until the fat lady etc.

One thing I wonder about. The 14th amendment gambit was rejected as it was too late. Is it possible to test the 14th amendment (which makes debt default impossible) in the supreme court during a non crisis timeline to wipe out the prospect of financial terrorism in the future? 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Jingthing

[xylophone]

48 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Good (albeit predictable) news. Reports are now that a deal is getting closer whereby both sides can claim sound kind of win. You'd have to be insane (like Trump who openly advocated for it) to think defaulting is even remotely acceptable.

The people who "openly advocated" not to raise the debt ceiling are probably in the same camp as the MAGA people, and just as unintelligent. 

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, heybruce said:

In case you haven't noticed, the Fed has been raising interest rates to slow down the economy.  Raising taxes has the same affect with the added benefit of reducing the deficit.

The Fed line is that they have been raising interest rates to slow inflation and try to get it back to their preferred 2%. Don't be so absurd.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The Fed line is that they have been raising interest rates to slow inflation and try to get it back to their preferred 2%. Don't be so absurd.

Is you knowledge of economics that poor?  The idea is that higher interest rates lower inflation by slowing down the economy.

[nauseus]

21 hours ago, billd766 said:

Then lay the blame where it belongs.

 

At the feet of the GOP, who are more interested in earning brownie points than helping the country out of the mess that they put it in.

Your verdict - not mine.