Trump vows to end birthright citizenship for children of unauthorized immigrants if he wins in 2024

[Chomper Higgot]

24 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You say MAGA as if it is something negative. What is wrong with making america great?

Trump is going to be a runaway winner, unless they can replace sleepy, no decent american is going to vote for a guy who can't remember his opposition's name, or confuses his granddaughter with his dead son, etc.. 

Another crystal ball prediction.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

As has been pointed out to you by many other posters, this is a constitutional matter that cannot be overturned by 'executive order'. Now supposing Trump isn't THAT stupid to not know it's enshrined in the constitution, why would he say something he knows can never be done? Trump said he would issue an executive order during his first day back at the White House in January 2025. He knows that cannot be done so why say it? So whether you agree or disagree with the law, it's just another red flag to incite his base.

 

Personally I think it smacks of 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' because children who have known no other home other than the USA for all their lives need protecting, which the current constitution does, but for those that just give birth there just to get a USA passport there is an obvuious issue. They both require individual solutions which cannot be acheived by Trump promising to 'end birthright citizenship for children of unauthorized immigrants' across the board, on his first day of office.

 

There's nuance required here which is as we know, is NOT Trump's forte. 

Giving birth in the US does not secure citizenship for the parents.

 

Only the child.

 

Quite possible, even common, for parents of children who are US citizens on basis of birth to be deported.

 

So while it might confer a benefit to the child once grown, it does nothing for the immigration status of the family, which is one reason why there is not a big problem of people coming to the US specifically to give birth.

[johnnybangkok]

59 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You say MAGA as if it is something negative. What is wrong with making america great?

Trump is going to be a runaway winner, unless they can replace sleepy, no decent american is going to vote for a guy who can't remember his opposition's name, or confuses his granddaughter with his dead son, etc.. 

MAGA is negative. It's a whole movement based on negative steroetypes and backward thinking. It's identity politics at it's lowest, with plenty of name calling thrown in for good measure (as aptly demonstrated here). Hopefully 'no decent american is going to vote for a guy' who defrauds his own charity, sexually harasses women, doesn't admit election defeat, tries to undermine American democracy and who instigated an insurrection.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Why is it the left always wants to get personal? Where was the hysteria in my post. I simply reported info the OP neglected.

 

Me, personally I think it's criminal which is why these birther hotels were being rousted.

Why is it that right wingers always make generalizatons about the left based on  particular responses?.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, stoner said:

so 2 people on holiday in canada that have a baby there should be entitled to the health care system that tax payers pay for ? 

 

amazing. 

 

daily we see posters on here mouthing off about foreigners in thailand caught in bad situations in hospitals with medical bills etc. 

 

but when it is swung back the other way its ok ?

 

Yes, the baby should be entitled to health care.  All babies should.

 

Aren't expats people who have gone country shopping?

[stoner]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Yes, the baby should be entitled to health care.  All babies should.

 

Aren't expats people who have gone country shopping?

ok the baby can receive health care absolutely. 

 

who pays for it ? and for how long is that care extended for ? 

 

correct me if i am wrong but are expats here not required to pay for their own health insurance or costs incurred when visiting a hospital ? 

[heybruce]

31 minutes ago, stoner said:

ok the baby can receive health care absolutely. 

 

who pays for it ? and for how long is that care extended for ? 

 

correct me if i am wrong but are expats here not required to pay for their own health insurance or costs incurred when visiting a hospital ? 

Do you think the US should be more like Thailand?

[stoner]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do you think the US should be more like Thailand?

i think you completely avoided the question and the points that were being made by deflecting now. 

[EVENKEEL]

9 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do you think the US should be more like Thailand?

In some areas Thailand has it right.

[earlinclaifornia]

4 hours ago, Berkshire said:

He can't win votes he's already got.  This only appeals to the MAGA types.  Perhaps he's trying to keep them from defecting to DeSantis.  But this won't help Trump in the general election. 

His way of thinking is the more "red meat" he spews to his base the more rabid they all get. Truth is his base is slowly declining.

[Tug]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This would require a Constitutional Amendment.

 

First sentence of the 14th Amendment is:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

 

Requires a 2/3 majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate followed by a separate ratification by 3/4 of the States.

 

President has no role in this process. Never comes to him for signature and certainly cannot be done through an Executive Order.

 

So empty talk on his part.

Touché! Unfortunately in my opinion most of the maga politicians don’t really care if what they espouse is doable,just as long as it holds up for a few news cycles and can fester anger that’s good enough for them it’s all theater no substance all for the outrage vote no policy’s that would actually require work and skill 

[Pouatchee]

12 hours ago, heybruce said:

Trump promises an executive order that overrules the US Constitution.

 

not the way i read it. it is not the constitution but   'Under a decades-long interpretation of the Constitution, children born on U.S. soil are automatically bestowed American citizenship, '   an interpretation that he will challenge. either way it will be tied up in courts ad endum

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.  

 

[Credo]

Trump is doing here what he does best, he is dividing the nation.  He is again promising something he can't deliver on but will cause the targeting of vulnerable people.   

[heybruce]

13 hours ago, stoner said:

i think you completely avoided the question and the points that were being made by deflecting now. 

Ok, I'll state the obvious:  Children with no means of support should be cared for by the systems all rich countries have that care for indigent children.  The US has such systems.  These systems are paid for with tax money.

 

Children are cared for by society until they reach a productive age, then the relationship is usually reversed.  That's how human society has always worked.

 

Immigrants are net contributors to the US economy and do many jobs US citizens don't wish to do.  The US economy, starting with the farming and service industries, would collapse without immigrants.  Demonizing them and their children is not only morally wrong it is bad for the US.

 

Trump probably knows this.  He's making noise for his base and promising to do things he can't do.  His base loves it.

[stoner]

30 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Children are cared for by society until they reach a productive age, then the relationship is usually reversed.  That's how human society has always worked.

whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. remind me again all the children living in poverty all over the world ? 

 

spare me.

 

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Immigrants are net contributors to the US economy and do many jobs US citizens don't wish to do.  The US economy, starting with the farming and service industries, would collapse without immigrants.  Demonizing them and their children is not only morally wrong it is bad for the US.

 

people who fly to other countries for the specific reason of timing the birth to coincide with arriving in that country....ya they are not immigrants like you speak of. nice try though.  nor is it the people i and others are referring to. 

[Scott]

4 minutes ago, stoner said:

whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. remind me again all the children living in poverty all over the world ? 

 

spare me.

 

people who fly to other countries for the specific reason of timing the birth to coincide with arriving in that country....ya they are not immigrants like you speak of. nice try though.  nor is it the people i and others are referring to. 

Airlines have strict restrictions on how far along you can be in the pregnancy in order to fly.   Immigration officers may also deny entry to a pregnant woman unless she shows proof of financial solvency. 

 

It is not illegal to enter the US for the specific purpose of giving birth.  You will have to show proof of financial resources OR receipts for prepaid maternity plan.  

It should also be mentioned that many, many Canadians are intentionally born in the US. 

[EVENKEEL]

So, alot of fat women are being asked how far along they are? You ever asked a woman how far along they are only to be told they aren't pregnant.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, alot of fat women are being asked how far along they are? You ever asked a woman how far along they are only to be told they aren't pregnant.

I got news for you. The people asking the question in this context aren't doing it for the sake of chitchat.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, stoner said:

whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. remind me again all the children living in poverty all over the world ? 

 

spare me.

 

people who fly to other countries for the specific reason of timing the birth to coincide with arriving in that country....ya they are not immigrants like you speak of. nice try though.  nor is it the people i and others are referring to. 

Your first sentence is a pretty feeble deflection.  Was it ever unclear that we are discussing children in the US?

 

Regarding the rest:  Show me where Trump proposed to eliminate birthright citizenship only for those who come to the US specifically to give birth.  Show me where Trump has ever passed on an opportunity to demonize immigrants, other than the eastern European ones he marries and those from Norway.

Edited June 1, 2023 by heybruce

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ok, I'll state the obvious:  Children with no means of support should be cared for by the systems all rich countries have that care for indigent children.  The US has such systems.  These systems are paid for with tax money.

 

Children are cared for by society until they reach a productive age, then the relationship is usually reversed.  That's how human society has always worked.

 

Immigrants are net contributors to the US economy and do many jobs US citizens don't wish to do.  The US economy, starting with the farming and service industries, would collapse without immigrants.  Demonizing them and their children is not only morally wrong it is bad for the US.

 

Trump probably knows this.  He's making noise for his base and promising to do things he can't do.  His base loves it.

Please, not that tired old shibboleth of immigrants doing jobs Americans won't do.  That is bigoted on both fronts.  Americans would do such jobs, if only the wages weren't artificially surpressed by illegal immigrants willing to work for less. Also if able bodied people weren't able to game the social welfare system and spend lives of idle meaningless wastage.  

Guess what? In other countries, citizens do ALL the jobs, no matter how demeaning and low you may think them to be.  In Japan, Japanese people clean hotel rooms, build houses, pick fruit, and drive taxis. 

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Please, not that tired old shibboleth of immigrants doing jobs Americans won't do.  That is bigoted on both fronts.  Americans would do such jobs, if only the wages weren't artificially surpressed by illegal immigrants willing to work for less. Also if able bodied people weren't able to game the social welfare system and spend lives of idle meaningless wastage.  

Guess what? In other countries, citizens do ALL the jobs, no matter how demeaning and low you may think them to be.  In Japan, Japanese people clean hotel rooms, build houses, pick fruit, and drive taxis. 

The dems love people gaming the system, makes them dependant on the Gov. 

[Neeranam]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Guess what? In other countries, citizens do ALL the jobs, no matter how demeaning and low you may think them to be.  In Japan, Japanese people clean hotel rooms, build houses, pick fruit, and drive taxis. 

If you go to a convenience store in Japan, you'll find SE Asians, including many Thais. 

In Thailand, labouring is predominantly Burmese and Loatian workers. 

Finland, Thais picking blueberries. Lebanon, Syrian labourers. 

Actually, every country has immigrants doing jobs citizens don't want. 

[heybruce]

14 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Please, not that tired old shibboleth of immigrants doing jobs Americans won't do.  That is bigoted on both fronts.  Americans would do such jobs, if only the wages weren't artificially surpressed by illegal immigrants willing to work for less. Also if able bodied people weren't able to game the social welfare system and spend lives of idle meaningless wastage.  

Guess what? In other countries, citizens do ALL the jobs, no matter how demeaning and low you may think them to be.  In Japan, Japanese people clean hotel rooms, build houses, pick fruit, and drive taxis. 

Guess what?  In other nations, including Thailand, immigrants do the most unpleasant of the agricultural, factory, and service jobs.  Japan, not a big agricultural nation, is the exception.

 

Paying wages and providing benefits that would motivate US citizens to work long days of stoop labor under a hot sun would either drive food prices through the roof or bankrupt US farmers as consumers switch to imported foods. 

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The dems love people gaming the system, makes them dependant on the Gov. 

Untrue, irrelevant, and off-topic.

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If you go to a convenience store in Japan, you'll find SE Asians, including many Thais. 

In Thailand, labouring is predominantly Burmese and Loatian workers. 

Finland, Thais picking blueberries. Lebanon, Syrian labourers. 

Actually, every country has immigrants doing jobs citizens don't want. 

Uh, I live in Japan. Have for more than 20 years.  What you say is narrowly true in very limited circumstances. In big cities only.  The reason is the falling birthrate more than anything.  The population is aging and shrinking.   However there is no vast underclass doing the crap jobs as there is in the US.  

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The dems love people gaming the system, makes them dependant on the Gov. 

The Republicans love to ignore the Constitution when it doesn't align with their interests.

[EVENKEEL]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Guess what?  In other nations, including Thailand, immigrants do the most unpleasant of the agricultural, factory, and service jobs.  Japan, not a big agricultural nation, is the exception.

 

Paying wages and providing benefits that would motivate US citizens to work long days of stoop labor under a hot sun would either drive food prices through the roof or bankrupt US farmers as consumers switch to imported foods. 

As a teenager I did all those jobs. You'd be hardpressed to find a white kid doing dairy work, picking crops these days. Americans have gotten soft and lazy, part of the problem is the gov handing out to many freebees.

[Pink Mist]

A post on moderation has been removed, and now a comment on a Moderators removal post has been removed. 

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Guess what?  In other nations, including Thailand, immigrants do the most unpleasant of the agricultural, factory, and service jobs.  Japan, not a big agricultural nation, is the exception.

 

Paying wages and providing benefits that would motivate US citizens to work long days of stoop labor under a hot sun would either drive food prices through the roof or bankrupt US farmers as consumers switch to imported foods. 

Not a big agricultural nation?  Please...

 

About wages- labor accounts for about 30% of the cost of fruit/nuts, 20% for vegetables, and 10% for grains etc.

So even paying legal residents double the current wage would not drive food prices "through the roof".  Plus it would encourage automation and efficient production.  

 

 

 

https://data.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/en/crop-workers/