The demise of the village ATM.

[KhaoYai]

So what's the alternative to cash? I won't have banking on my phone and I'm yet to visit anywhere it Thailand that lets me simply tap my Kasikorn card - even though its a tap-able card.  I've heard of prompt pay but I have no idea how it works or what I need to use it. I guess I need to have some form of banking app on my phone to pay by QR?

 

This reliance on technology will backfire for sure.  There's bound to be a major internet failure at some point - either deliberate or through a fault.  That will be fun. I've never had a 'transaction failed' message when I've paid with a 1000 baht note.

 

Shops seem to behind the trend - when I put my card into a machine to pay a retailer, they always ask me to sign the chit - even though it says quite clearly on the transaction note 'No Signature Required'.

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

So what's the alternative to cash? I won't have banking on my phone and I'm yet to visit anywhere it Thailand that lets me simply tap my Kasikorn card - even though its a tap-able card.  I've heard of prompt pay but I have no idea how it works or what I need to use it. I guess I need to have some form of banking app on my phone to pay by QR?

Its useful....   PromptPay - its just a form of e-payment. 

There is also TrueWallet, Line Pay, Rabbit pay etc... 

 

IMO - True Wallet and PromtPay are sufficient for convenience. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

This reliance on technology will backfire for sure.  There's bound to be a major internet failure at some point - either deliberate or through a fault.  That will be fun. I've never had a 'transaction failed' message when I've paid with a 1000 baht note.

Network Failure or phone battery dies !!...   

There's no harm in carrying 1000 baht note as backup... I need to carry a thin wallet for ID anyway, so I have a couple of 1000 baht notes, and a few 100’s...  plus ID, credit card, Insurance card. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Shops seem to behind the trend - when I put my card into a machine to pay a retailer, they always ask me to sign the chit - even though it says quite clearly on the transaction note 'No Signature Required'.

 

Everything seems to be going ‘smart phone based and or online and cashless’ for the simple transactions (smaller transactions as below)... credit card for the bigger stuff (as it also gets points).

 

Used a Taxi - Grab (cashless transaction). 

Shopped at 7-11 - Use True Wallet.

Shopped at the local Pharmacy - Used PromptPay (scanned their QR code).

Played football - Transferred money to a mate with Mobile Banking (input his telephone number linked to his account).

Renewed Car Tax - Process all online, paid with OLB (Computer).

Ate in a restaurant - used a credit card.

Shopped in the wet market - paid with PromptPay (vendor scanned my ‘make payment’ QR code).

Beers in a pub - paid with PromptPay (scanned their QR code).

 

But... also used a BOLT - had to pay cash.

Flagged a taxi - had to use cash.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I've heard of prompt pay but I have no idea how it works or what I need to use it.

PromtPay is payment through your Mobile Banking App.

 

i.e. You have a Thai Bank account... (example, Bangkok Bank) and it has its associated Mobile Banking App.

The App is linked to your account...  you make simple online transactions, as you would with online banking from a computer. 

 

The difference is the Prompt pay makes this process simpler and more automated. 

 

i.e. in a shop, you purchase goods to the value for 1,375 Baht....  you have your phone ready with App Open, you select ‘Scan’ and then use the phone camera to scan the Digital QR code the shop assistance shows you....   you check the amount on your screen and the payment is confirmed on your device and the shops system. 

 

OR... another slightly different system, you can scan a friends QR code (or shops) and input the amount of payment.

 

OR, another slightly different system, you can bring up your own payment QR code and the shop will scan that and you can check and confirm payment. 

 

 

Ultimately, its all just electronic payment made simple....   some complain, others find it easier. 

 

The In-laws struggle with it, my folks would struggle with it...  All the young people I know seem to ‘only’ use these payment systems and never have cash at all. 

 

 

 

 

[phetphet]

Pushing towards a cashless society. The banks have already mentioned that they are plannig to start charging a fee for digital transfers.

So now they don't have to pay rent for branches or any costs involved in running them, less staff, no risk of robbery, no ATM's to maintain, and you can pay for the privilege.

[Caldera]

I'm not surprised. During my latest visit to a rural area (over Songkran), I could pay pretty much everything with my phone, even at village coffee shops and the likes. I had stocked up on cash at the airport which proved to be more than enough.

 

What I find interesting compared with my home country is how many people in their 50s and 60s I see making cashless payments, so it isn't just young people driving this trend.

[roietfortress]

VILLAGE ATM -- hey that's my nickname !?!

 

#

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Ultimately, its all just electronic payment made simple....   some complain, others find it easier. 

Well I'll use cash or my card as long as I can do.  I was with a Thai friend a few months back and was told I was a fossil because I don't have any payment method on my phone.  Following dinner we went to a BTS station to purchase tickets for the trip home.  I can't remember what method she used at the machine but it was declined.  She had a very red face when I stepped in and paid with cash ????.

 

I can't work out why the shops/restaurants etc. (that I've tried so far) don't have the card tap facility - even Lotus. The guy in front of me at Lotus last time paid using his phone but when I motioned to tap my card. the assistant shook her head.

 

I really don't want anything to do with banking on my phone and will resist that as long as I can.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Well I'll use cash or my card as long as I can do.  I was with a Thai friend a few months back and was told I was a fossil because I don't have any payment method on my phone.  Following dinner we went to a BTS station to purchase tickets for the trip home.  I can't remember what method she used at the machine but it was declined.  She had a very red face when I stepped in and paid with cash ????.

Anecdote.. I know another guy who didn’t have enough cash in his wallet so used his phone !!!... 

- I think that covers that point. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I can't work out why the shops/restaurants etc. (that I've tried so far) don't have the card tap facility - even Lotus. The guy in front of me at Lotus last time paid using his phone but when I motioned to tap my card. the assistant shook her head.

Some actually do, but most don’t even know they have it.... more availability and knowledge of the ’tap n go’ in Thailand would be more convenient.

.... but as you are going down that road...  What happens when you are with your ‘friend’ after dinner and the ’tap system doesn’t work’ when you want to pay for BTS tickets?...   I know, I know.. you’d use cash !!...

 

The reality is she probably tried to use one of the ‘other systems’ and thats the issue in Thailand... 

Some shops don't take PromptPay, some do... Some don’t take TrueMoney others do etc... and you have to ask them which... (and sometimes the staff are as dumb as a brick)....

 

 

In many areas (outside of Thailand) people can use their ‘phone to tap’ or their ‘smart watch’ etc and have been able to do so for a few years....  just tap and go... easy.

 

Thailand is advanced in some areas and quite behind in others - just like people.

 

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I really don't want anything to do with banking on my phone and will resist that as long as I can.

Well...  she did call you a fossil !!!...   ????

 

 

 

There could be so much ‘whataboutery’ with this topic...   and so many who make excuses for not moving on with the times and making excuses because they don't want to admit they don't understand how something works.....  or simply they don’t like the idea of it (usually because they dont understand how to use it)..... 

 

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What happens when you are with your ‘friend’ after dinner and the ’tap system doesn’t work’ when you want to pay for BTS tickets?...   I know, I know.. you’d use cash !!...

No, I just insert my card into the card reader as per normal.

[KhaoYai]

42 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Well...  she did call you a fossil !!!...   ????

 

 

 

There could be so much ‘whataboutery’ with this topic...   and so many who make excuses for not moving on with the times and making excuses because they don't want to admit they don't understand how something works.....  or simply they don’t like the idea of it (usually because they dont understand how to use it)..... 

I happily move with the times when I see it as beneficial and secure.  It is quite normal to not know about something until you learn - I'm yet to meet the person born with this knowledge.

 

Having lost my phone on several occasions I am not comfortable with having my banking facilities on it.  I also don't consider phones to have the best security.  I was alarmed recently when, during a conversation on the subject of phone security, a friend in the UK who works in the mobile phone industry, disabled the password on my phone and gained access to it.  He wouldn't show me how he did it but it took around 5 minutes.  If he knows how to do that, its a cert that the criminal fraternity does too.

 

Carrying information around in your pocket, information that could lead to losing money, doesn't make sense to me and I'll resist it as long as possible.

 

So called advances in technology are not always beneficial.  Take for instance, car security.  Its got so good now that criminals have started breaking in to people's houses to steal their keys - or worse, car-jacking people at traffic lights, sometimes at knifepoint!

 

You metioned earlier that you carry some cash around in case of some sort of technology failure.  I was really talking about something much bigger.  There's a certain leader of a certain country who is currently involved in a 'special operation'.  He would love to get his hands on the ability to shut the internet down in some countries or cause some other damage. We are so reliant on the net and linked technology (which includes almost everything now), that if it failed it would be a major catastrophe.  You can rest assured that people like the above 'gentleman' and terrorist groups etc. will be working night and day to cause some sort of disruption. Another recent technology - AI, may help them to achieve that aim.

 

In addition, your carry around cash won't help you are trying to pay at a point that no longer accepts cash.  I'm told that a growing number of outlets in London don't take cash and 5 years ago, couldn't get on a bus in Norway and pay by cash.

 

I'm not against cashless methods of payment, I just believe that the alternative of cash should not be removed for those who either choose not to use cashless or cannot.  In the UK we have a significant homeless community. How can those people, or those who've had problems and can't obtain a bank account or mobile phone access basic services or buy food if everything goes cashless?

 

Of course companies promote cashless transactions, the technology solves a lot of their problems such as cash transit and theft.  That doesn't mean its safe or reliable.  A cyber attack on the NHS a few years ago created havoc and its rumoured that the NHS paid out a very large ransome to regain control of their systems. There will be a major incident with the internet before too long - mark my words.

 

Yes, its the modern way

[richard_smith237]

52 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

What happens when you are with your ‘friend’ after dinner and the ’tap system doesn’t work’ when you want to pay for BTS tickets?...   I know, I know.. you’d use cash !!...

No, I just insert my card into the card reader as per normal.

Ah...  but what if the card-reader fails ?? (BTW - does the BTS has a card readers ?).

 

Anyway... I think you missed the point....  having a preference over one payment method over another when they all have their flaws and advantages simply highlights an emotional rather than a logical choice in light of a technologically evolving world. 

 

No one wants to see cash disappear - so this clearly shouldn’t be a decisive debate about a world with or without cash...   there are great advantages and conveniences to having alternative means of payment - If someone is unfamiliar with those ‘alternative means of payment’ then their argument is flawed from the offset. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Anecdote.. I know another guy who didn’t have enough cash in his wallet so used his phone !!!... 

- I think that covers that point. 

 

 

Some actually do, but most don’t even know they have it.... more availability and knowledge of the ’tap n go’ in Thailand would be more convenient.

.... but as you are going down that road...  What happens when you are with your ‘friend’ after dinner and the ’tap system doesn’t work’ when you want to pay for BTS tickets?...   I know, I know.. you’d use cash !!...

 

The reality is she probably tried to use one of the ‘other systems’ and thats the issue in Thailand... 

Some shops don't take PromptPay, some do... Some don’t take TrueMoney others do etc... and you have to ask them which... (and sometimes the staff are as dumb as a brick)....

 

 

In many areas (outside of Thailand) people can use their ‘phone to tap’ or their ‘smart watch’ etc and have been able to do so for a few years....  just tap and go... easy.

 

Thailand is advanced in some areas and quite behind in others - just like people.

 

Well...  she did call you a fossil !!!...   ????

 

 

 

There could be so much ‘whataboutery’ with this topic...   and so many who make excuses for not moving on with the times and making excuses because they don't want to admit they don't understand how something works.....  or simply they don’t like the idea of it (usually because they dont understand how to use it)..... 

 

 

 

 

True enough but on the point of phone banking there are very valid concerns as the loss from apps can be much higher than we would normally lose from a lost wallet and banks have been very reluctant to offer much protection.  Anything electronic is subject to intercept and manipulation.  Not safe at any speed.  Yes, the young adapt well to such devices but safety is a totally different ballgame.

[GreasyFingers]

14 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

Just need cellphone coverage, which usually works even during blackouts.

 

By the way, how would you obtain cash if there's no electricity?

1. But the cash  point of sale registers don't.

 

2. From under the mattress.

[foreverlomsak]

20 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

But in turn more people have turned to phone/QR code and such so no longer require the cash machine for either cash or banking transactions. 

True. 1 question and 1 observation.

 

The question does any Immigration office have QR code for paying extension fees, etc.

 

With QR codes being used for even small amounts, and the banks using passbooks in lieu of statements for record keeping, we will be spending a fair bit of time going to the bank to update the passbooks and spend maybe 3 hours a year getting new passbooks, especially if this account is used for "money in the bank" extensions and consolidated entries are not allowed by the IO's.

[josephbloggs]

20 hours ago, Flying Saucage said:

It's a worldwide move of governments, central banks and big finance to get rid of cash money. The aim is to establish CBDCs, Central Bank Digital Currencies, as soon as possible. Google "Better than cash alliance", in which Thailand is also a member.

 

If you ask why they do this, the answer is clear and obvious:

 

Without cash, you will transparent as glass. All your purchases from birth till death will be trackable. Negative interest rates and expiry dates can be applied to your money. And if you are politically too naughty, next time in the supermarket you can't buy anything anymore.

 

China does this with the e-Yuan already, Russia is working on the e-Rubel and Europe on the e-Euro. 

 

I pay as much as possible with cash. Keep your freedom, say no to this dire future!

Tin foil hat nonsense.

[lopburi3]

9 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

True. 1 question and 1 observation.

 

The question does any Immigration office have QR code for paying extension fees, etc.

 

With QR codes being used for even small amounts, and the banks using passbooks in lieu of statements for record keeping, we will be spending a fair bit of time going to the bank to update the passbooks and spend maybe 3 hours a year getting new passbooks, especially if this account is used for "money in the bank" extensions and consolidated entries are not allowed by the IO's.

Consolidated entries should not be an issue if you provide bank statements (as many of us using income have to do now).  Best to us another account for normal money usage and just use your name only account for money in account and or deposits and then transfer working funds to another account - books last much longer that way.

 

Edit:  As for immigration using QR codes don't have a clue as I do not use myself.

Edited June 2, 2023 by lopburi3

[sirineou]

We rarely use cash. Scan the QR code and pay.

Went to the village ATM a couple of days ago for small item cash, and it was empty of money. 

 ATM infustracture and maintenance is a cost and a problem from banks. With digital money in a few years they will become a memory from the past much like rotary phones, VH video tapes and the sexual stamina of my Youth ????  

Edited June 2, 2023 by sirineou

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

like rotary phones, VH video tapes and the sexual stamina of my Youth ????  

Dial phones were the replacement for clicking the headset holder to personal operator service - lost a lot of date options with that invention.  VHS was a poor excuse for Betamax but due to numbers became the standard.  Believe there are pills for stamina?  ????

[foreverlomsak]

 

4 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Consolidated entries should not be an issue if you provide bank statements (as many of us using income have to do now).

I'm on the 800K in the bank, need to provide copy all pages bank book and a 12 month statement, and yes, it is basically a standalone bank account with limited usage, annual subscriptions, etc., (with a significantly higher balance than needed), my daily account is with a different bank and they found it too difficult to activate the Debit Card for an on-line subscription payment.

[h90]

Thailand will go full digital money so no need for ATMs anymore. They'll slowly disappear.

Since years Thailand is working on the central bank digital money.

[Troy Tempest]

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Genuine question, how did you determine that, did SCB confirm it?   I understood that (non-bank) premises had to pay the banks for ATMs to be installed.

 "I understood that (non-bank) premises had to pay the banks for ATMs to be installed".

 

Probably true...Three Brand New 7/11s where I live...None has an ATM!

[n00dle]

22 hours ago, matchar said:

I had to use cash yesterday as the Thai banking network still always crashes on payday in the evening.

what network is this. i cant remeber being unable to get cash due to an unscheduled network outtage in years. possibly over a decade.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, n00dle said:

what network is this. i cant remeber being unable to get cash due to an unscheduled network outtage in years. possibly over a decade.

Same here...  

 

But, those ‘against’ something will always draw upon some ‘whatifery’ to argue against something. 

 

I can’ transfer 30,000 baht to someone very easily with the phone... but what-if I carry cash and lose my wallet ?....  Or what-if I transfer to the wrong person.. etc etc... 

 

The online stuff works perfectly ‘nearly’ all of the time I used it - the only issue I sometimes have is that the staff are sometimes utter morons who give me the thousand yard stare when I ask in Thai ‘PromptPay or TrueWallet’...   (its one of those situations where its them not me !!...  its usually resolved by another staff member who understands my Thai perfectly - the ‘whatifery’ here is that using the PromptPay or TrueWallet does require an additional ’single point’ of communication where cash doesn’t...  but then these are the same idiots who would short change us.. more 'whatifery')

 

 

[n00dle]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Same here...  

 

But, those ‘against’ something will always draw upon some ‘whatifery’ to argue against something. 

 

I can’ transfer 30,000 baht to someone very easily with the phone... but what-if I carry cash and lose my wallet ?....  Or what-if I transfer to the wrong person.. etc etc... 

 

The online stuff works perfectly ‘nearly’ all of the time I used it - the only issue I sometimes have is that the staff are sometimes utter morons who give me the thousand yard stare when I ask in Thai ‘PromptPay or TrueWallet’...   (its one of those situations where its them not me !!...  its usually resolved by another staff member who understands my Thai perfectly - the ‘whatifery’ here is that using the PromptPay or TrueWallet does require an additional ’single point’ of communication where cash doesn’t...  but then these are the same idiots who would short change us.. more 'whatifery')

 

 

the single time i can recall having an issue making a payment for anything i was pissed as a fart at 3 am when the bangkok bank online app was down for scheduled maintenance. I gave them my number and transfeerd cash in the hangover aftermath the next day.

 

It sucks to pay for the drunk while you are paying the consequences. That was incidentally the day i decided that perhaps my hardcore drinking and party days had run thier course, 

as for the language barrier, though i speak thai i have never had to do more then hold up my phone and say "scan"

Edited June 2, 2023 by n00dle

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Dial phones were the replacement for clicking the headset holder to personal operator service - lost a lot of date options with that invention.  VHS was a poor excuse for Betamax but due to numbers became the standard. 

Sure!! Innovative solutions to every problem , mucg in the way digital money is replacing ATMs. But while it is mitigating problems associated with ATM , it is also creating it's own unique problems that will be mitigated by further innovations.

It is the way of the world. 

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Believe there are pills for stamina?  ????

Where can I get some of that? ????

[Crossy]

Just now, sirineou said:

Where can I get some of that? ????

 

Wasn't it Pedigree Chum that was supposed to give extra stamina?

 

[sirineou]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Wasn't it Pedigree Chum that was supposed to give extra stamina?

 

I think it  claim to,

but if dog food would give "extra stamina" then my ex-wife's cooking would have made me a superman ????

[KhaoYai]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

What happens when you are with your ‘friend’ after dinner

No need for the quotations - she is a friend and has been for 15 years.  Most of my friends in Thailand are Thai.

[CartagenaWarlock]

22 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Was not talking major card places - they have no choice - but those that often deal in cash will often charge more for cards.  This was most apparent to me with soi travel agents (which suspect many are actually money launderers and could care less about selling tickets).

Yes, there are shops that will ask for, say 3% (which is not allowed in the US, anyway). It also depends on how many shops are competing. In Tukom and Fortune I have seen many vendors change their tune when I simply say, "OK, I will look for another shop who won't charge me". I pay 5% in some bars in Pattaya but as I mentioned earlier it was a wash for me because I get 5% cash back in restaurant and bars. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

And absolutely no government ever tracks the use of credit cards.

 

I used to have about 6 cc but got rid of them all years ago.

 

I have only one debit card and I know to the satang exactly how much money I have, and I know I can never spend more money than I actually have.

 

I pay no interest and my card fee is about 200 thb a year.

 

If I want or need something and I don't have the money, then either I save for it or I simply go without it.

 

I can remember being in a supermarket queue in NZ many years ago behind a woman who had maxed out 10 cards and even then couldn't pay the bill.

 

She moved off, I paid cash to the thank you of the cashier. Cashin hand = job done.

Not a single convincing argument for using cash vs. credit for me.