Pita shares cast a pall over historic May 14th Election, fears that the results may be nullified by a court

[h90]

35 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Sorry to quote only a small bit of your post but Thailand has developed it's full potential in what it's always been designed for. Keep the poor in servitude to both Crown and religion whilst the minority elite prosper. Reversing this is the great fear for those that weild the power and prosper.

OK I am a foreigner but I can't see how my wife is in servitude to the Crown or even less to religion.....While the temples don't pay taxes, many poor (and rich) Thais also don't pay taxes so where do you see the servitude?

[Dogmatix]

Wissanu is a scoundrel who always serves dictators for his old personal vested interests.  I saw him putting his own negative spin on the Pita case on Thai TV and it was disgusting.  I can't understand why Thai reporters fawn all him and refer to him as one of Thailand's "top legal experts".  They should just ignore the rogue - brainwashing in Thailand's low quality schools I suppose.

 

Having said that, it does look as if Pita and MFP are heading towards the rocks. The EC will surely refer the case to the Constitutional Court which is packed by judges appointed by the 2014 junta.  It has wide discretion to interpret the constitution and has in the past ruled that an MP held shares as a nominee, so that didn't count.  But precedent is unimportant in Thai law and they could easily find the other way in a case that was in all respects identical.  Other previous decisions include the ruling that the constitution permitted felons convicted of serious crimes such as heroin smuggling from Thailand even based on confession in foreign countries as fully eligible to serve as MPs and ministers. This was of course a ruling that made Prawit happy as he didn't have any convicted heroin dealers in the cabinet and obviously thought it a useful skill set.  decision that made Prayut happy was the decision that army regulations allowing him a grace and favour house and free utilities at taxpayer expense after retirement from the army took precedence over the constitution that prohibits ministers from receiving gifts of that nature. With the constitution supposedly the highest law in the land, it surprised many that army regulations took precedence like a big tail wagging a small dog.

 

Pita faces a constitutional court that is unlikely to cut him the same slack as in the cases referred to above.  But at the end of the day why on earth did he keep the ITV shares in his name when he was an MP candidate in 2019, particularly after seeing his former boss banned from politics for the same offence. Where was the legal team he now talks about when it was time to audit the MP candidates assets in 2019 to ensure that none of them had inadvertently held on to media shares.  Why did Pita not insist on two more PM candidates in case anything happened to him? Although he talks of policies that make sense, his apparent lack of common sense raises questions about his judgement. 

[Purdey]

A bit unnerving to read so many thinking that people taking to the streets will lock the military out. Every military coup has not been stopped by civilians protesting simply because fists and sticks don't work against tanks and armored carriers. 

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, h90 said:

OK I am a foreigner but I can't see how my wife is in servitude to the Crown or even less to religion.....While the temples don't pay taxes, many poor (and rich) Thais also don't pay taxes so where do you see the servitude?

Look at SEP. Sustainable Economic Philosophy. All though Buddhism isn't classified as a religion it as all religions do indoctrinate from birth. Many years ago one of the princesses came speeding down the road in her entourage. All people had to be on their knees kowtowing in reverance and respect.

[h90]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Look at SEP. Sustainable Economic Philosophy. All though Buddhism isn't classified as a religion it as all religions do indoctrinate from birth. Many years ago one of the princesses came speeding down the road in her entourage. All people had to be on their knees kowtowing in reverance and respect.

Well I am Atheist and in general I agree on critics about religion...And I have seen the monks who take the last 20 Baht from some poor old woman without being ashamed....But there is no force and the sustainable economic is not meant to keep people poor...the opposite. It might be abused here and there. But important there is no forcing people.

Religion is a kind of narcotic for the mind...yes. But you can't ban it as it cause more harm than good (similar to banning actual narcotics).

 

Had to be on their knees:.....A cultural things. If someone would not go on the knees he would only get some angry looks, nothing more. There is no forced labor or something real critical.

[stoutfella]

At last we see them in their true colours.

 

Reminds me a little of a Roy Orbison song, "Running Scared".

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

A bit unnerving to read so many thinking that people taking to the streets will lock the military out. Every military coup has not been stopped by civilians protesting simply because fists and sticks don't work against tanks and armored carriers. 

1992 Black May violent protests, 2008 Red Shirts mowed down by military and even 2014 coups were meet with resistance from citizens. People took to the streets and fought to protest the coups. They were mercilessly confronted by heavily armed military. Not correct to say that civilians will not resist coups. 

[soalbundy]

8 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

You may well be right, but didn't some guy, high up, in the army say the word coup is not in our vocabulary?

Yes, it's called a 'power transfer for stability' now.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Wissanu is a scoundrel who always serves dictators for his old personal vested interests.  I saw him putting his own negative spin on the Pita case on Thai TV and it was disgusting.  I can't understand why Thai reporters fawn all him and refer to him as one of Thailand's "top legal experts".  They should just ignore the rogue - brainwashing in Thailand's low quality schools I suppose.

 

Having said that, it does look as if Pita and MFP are heading towards the rocks. The EC will surely refer the case to the Constitutional Court which is packed by judges appointed by the 2014 junta.  It has wide discretion to interpret the constitution and has in the past ruled that an MP held shares as a nominee, so that didn't count.  But precedent is unimportant in Thai law and they could easily find the other way in a case that was in all respects identical.  Other previous decisions include the ruling that the constitution permitted felons convicted of serious crimes such as heroin smuggling from Thailand even based on confession in foreign countries as fully eligible to serve as MPs and ministers. This was of course a ruling that made Prawit happy as he didn't have any convicted heroin dealers in the cabinet and obviously thought it a useful skill set.  decision that made Prayut happy was the decision that army regulations allowing him a grace and favour house and free utilities at taxpayer expense after retirement from the army took precedence over the constitution that prohibits ministers from receiving gifts of that nature. With the constitution supposedly the highest law in the land, it surprised many that army regulations took precedence like a big tail wagging a small dog.

 

Pita faces a constitutional court that is unlikely to cut him the same slack as in the cases referred to above.  But at the end of the day why on earth did he keep the ITV shares in his name when he was an MP candidate in 2019, particularly after seeing his former boss banned from politics for the same offence. Where was the legal team he now talks about when it was time to audit the MP candidates assets in 2019 to ensure that none of them had inadvertently held on to media shares.  Why did Pita not insist on two more PM candidates in case anything happened to him? Although he talks of policies that make sense, his apparent lack of common sense raises questions about his judgement. 

I agree, he saw what happened to thanathorn, he should have done his homework better and done it some time bck and taken some action to get the shares (worthless or otherwise) cancelled, transferred to a non family holder or whatever, and then gotten a firm legal opinion about his status on the shares, and/or taken whatever further legal action was needed to remove himself and his family well away from the shares and well away any value they might have had.  all well before the election came up.

 

A tall order you say? Well not really, e.g. transferring shares is nowadays done on line in an instant.

[BenStark]

55 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

2 hours ago, Purdey said:

A bit unnerving to read so many thinking that people taking to the streets will lock the military out. Every military coup has not been stopped by civilians protesting simply because fists and sticks don't work against tanks and armored carriers. 

1992 Black May violent protests, 2008 Red Shirts mowed down by military and even 2014 coups were meet with resistance from citizens. People took to the streets and fought to protest the coups. They were mercilessly confronted by heavily armed military. Not correct to say that civilians will not resist coups. 

I think you missed the point of the post.

 

fists and sticks don't work against tanks and armored carriers. 

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

1992 Black May violent protests, 2008 Red Shirts mowed down by military and even 2014 coups were meet with resistance from citizens. People took to the streets and fought to protest the coups. They were mercilessly confronted by heavily armed military. Not correct to say that civilians will not resist coups. 

Add to the list: 1957, 1959, 1963, 1971, 1973, 1976, 1980 and 1990 - where heavily manipulated/irregular elections or outright coups occurred and the masses took to the streets in protests against the usual circles. Some end results were nastier and more tragic than others. 

 

Some observers might suggest that such back-n-forth and unstable activities are a way of life here. 

They will not surrender their places of elitist dominion, as history will show......and as is currently presenting itself. 

[Eric Loh]

44 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Some observers might suggest that such back-n-forth and unstable activities are a way of life here. 

In the past, political leaders were wealthy businessmen, top bureaucrats and military men. No grassroots leaders. That change after Thaksin and now Pita. Also emergence of real time communication and social media. Will shake up politics for sure. 

[herfiehandbag]

6 hours ago, malibukid said:

that why the Thai military bought all those shiny new U.S.  strike vehicles from uncle Sam.

Two battalions worth of Stryker, along with another three battalions worth of Ukrainian BTRs will probably only be enough to secure the airport and the main route to it.

 

The mixture of tanks (many of them M48 and M60s - old and with likely maintenance and reliability issues) and M116 tracked APCs (also old) will require transporters to get them where they are needed. They are of limited use in urban areas.

[zzaa09]

21 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

In the past, political leaders were wealthy businessmen, top bureaucrats and military men. No grassroots leaders. That change after Thaksin and now Pita. Also emergence of real time communication and social media. Will shake up politics for sure. 

There was never such a "change" under Thaksin or Yingluck or other so called civilian governments.....were still beholding to the pulled strings. As you will find this to be true for the dreamy state of Pita and his circles. 

 

Any real change will require a full and complete cleanse - which ain't gonna happen anytime soon [or distant future].

Astounded, as to reasonable and intelligent folks who still, to this day, don't understand how things work here. 

[herfiehandbag]

Hasek (Czechoslovakia), Honneker (East Germany) ,  Ceuascescu (Romania), Marcos (Phillipines), Chun Du Hwan (South Korea), Suharto (Indonesia) all thought that they were secure in place.

 

They all were ousted remarkably quickly once their population decided on a complete clean out.

[herfiehandbag]

49 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Any real change will require a full and complete cleanse - which ain't gonna happen anytime soon [or distant future].

Astounded, as to reasonable and intelligent folks who still, to this day, don't understand how things work here.

Hasek (Czechoslovakia), Honneker (East Germany) ,  Ceuascescu (Romania), Marcos (Phillipines), Chun Du Hwan (South Korea), Suharto (Indonesia) all thought that they and their ruling elite were secure in place.

 

They all were ousted remarkably quickly once their population decided on a complete clean out.

 

"Reasonable and Intelligent folks" understand how things work here.

 

They understand that the status quo is maintained by a mix of traditional puppetry and force, behind a screen of faux constitutional institutions, all nominally there to serve the nation and its people but in fact hijacked by a ruling oligarchy, all semi obscured by smoke and mirrors.

 

This election has smashed the mirrors, blown away the smoke.

 

The presence which so dominated Thai society, was so revered, and which held together the system, which allowed an authoritarian elite to rule "as of right" has gone for ever. It has not been replaced in the peoples affections.

 

" Reasonable and Intelligent folks" ( Thai and foreign) are beginning to think that things should and can be changed.

Granted the opinions of the foreigners are largely irrelevant, but those of the Thais matter;

the recent election (which now seems to have been effectively stalled or frustrated) showed that a large number of Thais wanted change, and, which would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago, voted for it.

 

Look at the results for Bangkok - arguably where the educated, economically productive and until recently most "conservative" population is; MFP swept the board. 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[Dogmatix]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

I agree, he saw what happened to thanathorn, he should have done his homework better and done it some time bck and taken some action to get the shares (worthless or otherwise) cancelled, transferred to a non family holder or whatever, and then gotten a firm legal opinion about his status on the shares, and/or taken whatever further legal action was needed to remove himself and his family well away from the shares and well away any value they might have had.  all well before the election came up.

 

A tall order you say? Well not really, e.g. transferring shares is nowadays done on line in an instant.

MFP's enemies seem to have had no trouble finding out about Pita and Thanathorn's media shares.  So how come the party's legal team couldn't find them with access to full cooperation which their enemies didn't get?  They need to change the way they do due diligence on their candidates next time, if they get another chance.

[BenStark]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

A tall order you say? Well not really, e.g. transferring shares is nowadays done on line in an instant.

You pretend to be knowledgeable about this.

 

Well, here is a surprise for you.

 

ITV shares have been suspended from trading since July 24 2014, and suspended shares obviously can't be sold.

 

https://thailand.postsen.com/live-style/135458/Anupong-points-out-that-ITV-has-gone-out-of-business-The-Stock-Exchange-of-Thailand-has-removed-the-stock-since-July-24-2014-now-maintaining-the-status-to-sue-the.html

 

But what is more. ITV was owned for 53% by Shin Corp, that names rings a bell to you? And now is actually owned by the Thai government

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/business/worldbusiness/27iht-itv.4734543.html

[thailand49]

6 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Well you say all this but don't give an answer. What did your Thai niece and her BF say? Thais I have talked to about this are more than willing to take the to the streets if these self serving corrupt buffoons do not accept the will of the people.

My niece realize now there is no chance in hell anyone is ever going to fix whats wrong at the ballot boxes it will take much more than a few denigrating.  She also realize if you aren't 100% Thai you got no chance of ever being in any type of office.  Her boyfriend when ask had no answer just a blank stare like majority of youth young full of cum,dreams following the pipe piper like rats. 

Don't get me wrong I hope your dreams come true but I already got a nick name for you boy 

"Pity pocket"  he already owes a bunch of iou's with his coalitions.

If he make it that far he will be just like others Mayor of Pattaya,  Governor or Mayor of Bangkok ran on chances what voters are realizing only change they see is they work for themselves in getting rich and ahead in the political world never to be seen again.

Good luck to your Thai friends in marching make sure to wear a hat and drink a lot of water. 

[thailand49]

6 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Well you say all this but don't give an answer. What did your Thai niece and her BF say? Thais I have talked to about this are more than willing to take the to the streets if these self serving corrupt buffoons do not accept the will of the people.

My niece realize now there is no chance in hell anyone is ever going to fix whats wrong at the ballot boxes it will take much more than a few demotration .  She also realize if you aren't 100% Thai you got no chance of ever being in any type of office.  Her boyfriend when ask had no answer just a blank stare like majority of youth young full of cum,dreams following the pipe piper like rats. 

Don't get me wrong I hope your dreams come true but I already got a nick name for you boy 

"Pity pocket"  he already owes a bunch of iou's with his coalitions.

If he make it that far he will be just like others Mayor of Pattaya,  Governor or Mayor of Bangkok ran on chances what voters are realizing only change they see is they work for themselves in getting rich and ahead in the political world never to be seen again.

Good luck to your Thai friends in marching make sure to wear a hat and drink a lot of water. 

[dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

My niece realize now there is no chance in hell anyone is ever going to fix whats wrong at the ballot boxes it will take much more than a few denigrating.  She also realize if you aren't 100% Thai you got no chance of ever being in any type of office.  Her boyfriend when ask had no answer just a blank stare like majority of youth young full of cum,dreams following the pipe piper like rats. 

Don't get me wrong I hope your dreams come true but I already got a nick name for you boy 

"Pity pocket"  he already owes a bunch of iou's with his coalitions.

If he make it that far he will be just like others Mayor of Pattaya,  Governor or Mayor of Bangkok ran on chances what voters are realizing only change they see is they work for themselves in getting rich and ahead in the political world never to be seen again.

Good luck to your Thai friends in marching make sure to wear a hat and drink a lot of water. 

Apart from this my hopes are for a peaceful transition to what more than 3/4 of the voting public voted for. The ousting of a military govt.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by dinsdale

[zzaa09]

27 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Hasek (Czechoslovakia), Honneker (East Germany) ,  Ceuascescu (Romania), Marcos (Phillipines), Chun Du Hwan (South Korea), Suharto (Indonesia) all thought that they and their ruling elite were secure in place.

 

They all were ousted remarkably quickly once their population decided on a complete clean out.

 

"Reasonable and Intelligent folks" understand how things work here.

 

They understand that the status quo is maintained by a mix of traditional puppetry and force, behind a screen of faux constitutional institutions, all nominally there to serve the nation and its people but in fact hijacked by a ruling oligarchy, all semi obscured by smoke and mirrors.

 

This election has smashed the mirrors, blown away the smoke.

 

The presence which so dominated Thai society, was so revered, and which held together the system, which allowed an authoritarian elite to rule "as of right" has gone for ever. It has not been replaced in the peoples affections.

 

" Reasonable and Intelligent folks" ( Thai and foreign) are beginning to think that things should and can be changed.

Granted the opinions of the foreigners are largely irrelevant, but those of the Thais matter;

the recent election (which now seems to have been effectively stalled or frustrated) showed that a large number of Thais wanted change, and, which would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago, voted for it.

 

Look at the results for Bangkok - arguably where the educated, economically productive and until recently most "conservative" population is; MFP swept the board. 

 

 

Naive is as naive does.....

[bannork]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

In the past, political leaders were wealthy businessmen, top bureaucrats and military men. No grassroots leaders. That change after Thaksin and now Pita. Also emergence of real time communication and social media. Will shake up politics for sure. 

Absolutely. I remember reading about the October 6th 1976 massacre in Time or Newsweek magazine. I knew nothing about Thailand at the time, but that photo of the hung student battered by chairs from a lynch mob stuck in my mind.

If pictures like that were broadcast across international media today, I'm not sure the government would survive. 

[thailand49]

????

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

????

Edited June 5, 2023 by thailand49

[thailand49]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Apart from this my hopes are for a peaceful transition to what more than 3/4 of the voting public voted for. The ousting of a military govt.

 

Keep dreaming I serious doubt 3/4 who voted had a cure.  But I guess you got lots of company! ????

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Keep dreaming I serious doubt 3/4 who voted had a cure.  But I guess you got lots of company! ????

Let me remind you of a previous post of yours

21 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

if you aren't 100% Thai you got no chance of ever being in any type of office. 

Now let me show you this pic again

Edited June 5, 2023 by dinsdale

[Gknrd]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

1992 Black May violent protests, 2008 Red Shirts mowed down by military and even 2014 coups were meet with resistance from citizens. People took to the streets and fought to protest the coups. They were mercilessly confronted by heavily armed military. Not correct to say that civilians will not resist coups. 

Thailand or China?

[Toolong]

You know the expression (modified somewhat here) about how 'if it looks like a duck, walks like ducks, it's a ***k*** duck'?

 

Since those heady days post May 14.....all I've seen are ducks. More & more each day. Now too many ducks too count. Wissanu was always ever only engaged by the junta in the role that he's now finally fulfilling, to earn his reward for betraying his country and its people: Duck-whisperer-general.

 

I pray he & those he serves will one day be held to proper account for their actions. 

[thailand49]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Let me remind you of a previous post of yours

Now let me show you this pic again

And let me show your my response again ????

I can't spend hours trying to explain things to you.  You showing me the picture just shows how clueless you are about thing I note again if it isn't black and white explain to you like a child you don't get it. 

What I see is a guy light is on but no one is home.  

[zzaa09]

1 minute ago, Toolong said:

You know the expression (modified somewhat here) about how 'if it looks like a duck, walks like ducks, it's a ***k*** duck'?

 

Since those heady days post May 14.....all I've seen are ducks. More & more each day. Now too many ducks too count. Wissanu was always ever only engaged by the junta in the role that he's now finally fulfilling, to earn his reward for betraying his country and its people: Duck-whisperer-general.

 

I pray he & those he serves will one day be held to proper account for their actions. 

Unfortunately, nothing's gonna change - despite all of the dreamy and desperate spewed ideologies, especially from foreign types who pretend to understand the culture and social order.