Anyone been back to Australia for the forced 2 year exile to move pension to Thailand?

[Nemises]

55 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Keep in mind that you can return to family etc., multiple times during the 2 years.

Plenty of Aussies have returned, lodge their OAP application and a few weeks later have left Oz for hols abroad, perhaps 3 weeks out of Oz. And done this multiple times in the 2 yr period. 

I have read this many times so it must be true, but until I can see it on the C’link site I’m not prepared to risk going back to see Mrs N in LoS.  
Please share the link if you ever see where it says you can go abroad for say 2 x 2 weeks during your 2 years pension detention without it impacting anything ???? 

[Will27]

40 minutes ago, Nemises said:

I have read this many times so it must be true, but until I can see it on the C’link site I’m not prepared to risk going back to see Mrs N in LoS.  
Please share the link if you ever see where it says you can go abroad for say 2 x 2 weeks during your 2 years pension detention without it impacting anything ???? 

If you're in Australia, wouldn't it just be easier to phone or visit centrelink and ask them?

[scorecard]

44 minutes ago, Will27 said:

If you're in Australia, wouldn't it just be easier to phone or visit centrelink and ask them?

In Australia call the 132 300 Older Australian Line (part of C'link) and ask them. I did, twice, and I received the info. I shared just above, and I had also read it many times before on this and another web board.

 

The officers on this line are good listeners, very polite,  give very clear answers, very willing to explain as necessary. The officer I spoke to agreed 'it's not on the website because C'link (OZ gov't) don't want to openly publicize it and perhaps cause confusion about the  need to 're-establish a home in Oz) specifically mentioned as a requirement to gain the OAP.'

 

Also in the picture, the gov't shows seriousness at the start of the 2 years but it seems to fall away as the 2 years builds. Example: Near the end of the 2 years i called 132 300 and mentioned that I didn't really unerstand the meaning of 'portability'. The officer took no 'attitude whatever, she explained it clearly and even said 'if you need more advice on how to proceed to live abroad (after gaining portability), please don't hesitate to call back'. She even automatically e.mailed to me the C'link banking form to provide full details of my bank abroad.

(Note: as most members probably know, all calls are recorded and saved. Same with all calls to the DVA.)

Edited July 1, 2023 by scorecard

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

In Australia call the 132 300 Older Australian Line (part of C'link) and ask them. I did, twice, and I received the info. I shared just above, and I had also read it many times before on this and another web board.

 

The officers on this line are good listeners, very polite,  give very clear answers, very willing to explain as necessary. The officer I spoke to agreed 'it's not on the website because C'link (OZ gov't) don't want to openly publicize it and perhaps cause confusion about the  need to 're-establish a home in Oz) specifically mentioned as a requirement to gain the OAP.'

 

Also in the picture, the gov't shows seriousness at the start of the 2 years but it seems to fall away as the 2 years builds. Example: Near the end of the 2 years i called 132 300 and mentioned that I didn't really unerstand the meaning of 'portability'. The officer took no 'attitude whatever, she explained it clearly and even said 'if you need more advice on how to proceed to live abroad (after gaining portability), please don't hesitate to call back'. She even automatically e.mailed to me the C'link banking form to provide full details of my bank abroad.

(Note: as most members probably know, all calls are recorded and saved. Same with all calls to the DVA.)

Thanks mate, appreciate the phone call suggestion and once again, have no doubts it is true, but regardless of what their staff tell me I would still like to see where it’s written on their website first. Until then I’m more than happy to stay put and keep flying TGF here. She loves it here for some reason ????‍♂️ ????

Here:

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Nemises

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Thanks mate, appreciate the phone call suggestion and once again, have no doubts it is true, but regardless of what their staff tell me I would still like to see where it’s written on their website first. Until then I’m more than happy to stay put and keep flying TGF here. She loves it here for some reason ????‍♂️ ????

Here:

 

 

 

 

Nice points and I agree it pays to be very careful on these matters. I have 2 more points to share:

1. Several other members on this web board have shared that they did several trips abroad ( from memory 2 to 4 weeks out of OZ and pehaps 4 or 5 times over the 2 year peiod. But as you rightly say it's not mentioned on the C.link website.

2. I did the 2 years then returned to my home/family in Thailand with no trips out of oz in the 2 yars. But that was because it was the extreme period of Covid; and some complications to get permsion to leave OZ and to re-enter OZ, and difficulty to enter Thailand (all possible but lots of red tape).

 

Perhaps also mentioning nowadays it's very easy to do free video calls on several apps. I did it on LINE almost every day, to talk with my Thai adult son, his wife (one instance; son wanted to discuss what new car he and his wife should buy - he bought a Honda Mobilio). And my 3 grandkids, birthday parties, help with English reading practice and more. But of course not the same as being there. And ultimately you must do what you feel comfortable with, thats your right. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by scorecard

[ozfarang]

2 hours ago, Nemises said:

Thanks mate, appreciate the phone call suggestion and once again, have no doubts it is true, but regardless of what their staff tell me I would still like to see where it’s written on their website first. Until then I’m more than happy to stay put and keep flying TGF here. She loves it here for some reason ????‍♂️ ????

 

Portability for former residents - Age, DSP

Since 20 September 2000, a former resident who returns to Australia and is granted Age or DSP, or who transfers to Age under SS(Admin)Act section 12, cannot take that pension outside Australia if they leave within 2 years of having resumed residence in Australia. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from travelling to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

The 2-year period includes, as separate full days, the day on which the recipient returns to Australia to resume Australian residence and the day on which they leave again.

There is no discretionary power to allow portability of Age or DSP during the 2-year period (note, some exceptions to the 2-year rule apply - see below).

Payment may be suspended for short overseas absences during the 2-year period and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) will not impact on the end date of the 2-year period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 2-year period).

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/7/1/4

[Nemises]

7 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

Portability for former residents - Age, DSP

Since 20 September 2000, a former resident who returns to Australia and is granted Age or DSP, or who transfers to Age under SS(Admin)Act section 12, cannot take that pension outside Australia if they leave within 2 years of having resumed residence in Australia. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from travelling to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

The 2-year period includes, as separate full days, the day on which the recipient returns to Australia to resume Australian residence and the day on which they leave again.

There is no discretionary power to allow portability of Age or DSP during the 2-year period (note, some exceptions to the 2-year rule apply - see below).

Payment may be suspended for short overseas absences during the 2-year period and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) will not impact on the end date of the 2-year period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 2-year period).

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/7/1/4

You are an absolute champion. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Nemises]

5 hours ago, Will27 said:

If you're in Australia, wouldn't it just be easier to phone or visit centrelink and ask them?

No. It was far easier to ask for the link on here. 

[sirineou]

I was just talking to a buddy of mine who is Australian (I am American, and clueless about Australian politics,  ) on FB, he had dropped off the face of the world and then I saw he posted a picture of a lake , and I said that looks nice where is it, and he said "Australia" , I said what are you doing in Australia, and he told me he had to go back and do the two years for his pension. 

That's crazy!! He has to leave his house and wife here, and go live in Australia for two years so he would not lose his Pension? And he explained the situation to me. 

What a crazy and stupid thing, no wander he is always complaining about Australian politicians, 

It is crazy because it's your pension, you earned it. He said they dont want retired people to leave the country with their pension. That's stupid If I was them I would want all the old people who use all the services and medical  to leave . 

Anyway , I feel bad for you guys. Hope the change that stupid system. 

[scottiejohn]

40 minutes ago, sirineou said:

It is crazy because it's your pension, you earned it. He said they dont want retired people to leave the country with their pension. That's stupid If I was them I would want all the old people who use all the services and medical  to leave . 

I agree!

It seems to be a total reversal to the UK system where your pension never increases in Thailand after you leave the UK (if you are stupid enough to tell them that is)!

[Kenny202]

54 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I was just talking to a buddy of mine who is Australian (I am American, and clueless about Australian politics,  ) on FB, he had dropped off the face of the world and then I saw he posted a picture of a lake , and I said that looks nice where is it, and he said "Australia" , I said what are you doing in Australia, and he told me he had to go back and do the two years for his pension. 

That's crazy!! He has to leave his house and wife here, and go live in Australia for two years so he would not lose his Pension? And he explained the situation to me. 

What a crazy and stupid thing, no wander he is always complaining about Australian politicians, 

It is crazy because it's your pension, you earned it. He said they dont want retired people to leave the country with their pension. That's stupid If I was them I would want all the old people who use all the services and medical  to leave . 

Anyway , I feel bad for you guys. Hope the change that stupid system. 

Saw a snippet in the news a few days ago they are talking about making it even harder to get the pension...ie if you have more than a few pennies in the bank no go. The (Labor) govt in Australia for years have thrown money away on do gooder causes, jobless, etc and the poor tax payer has footed the bill. Every time they screw up and the country is falling behind financially they start talking like peoples superannuation funds and pensions are theirs to do what they like with. Australia was a wonderful country to grow up in. 60's 70's 80's. Just slowly gone to the pack. There was a wonderful culture in Australia and we had our own unique identity. Also long gone  

[Olmate]

8 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Saw a snippet in the news a few days ago they are talking about making it even harder to get the pension...ie if you have more than a few pennies in the bank no go. The (Labor) govt in Australia for years have thrown money away on do gooder causes, jobless, etc and the poor tax payer has footed the bill. Every time they screw up and the country is falling behind financially they start talking like peoples superannuation funds and pensions are theirs to do what they like with. Australia was a wonderful country to grow up in. 60's 70's 80's. Just slowly gone to the pack. There was a wonderful culture in Australia and we had our own unique identity. Also long gone  

Guessing you will be voting No to the Voice! ????

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Saw a snippet in the news a few days ago they are talking about making it even harder to get the pension...ie if you have more than a few pennies in the bank no go. The (Labor) govt in Australia for years have thrown money away on do gooder causes, jobless, etc and the poor tax payer has footed the bill. Every time they screw up and the country is falling behind financially they start talking like peoples superannuation funds and pensions are theirs to do what they like with. Australia was a wonderful country to grow up in. 60's 70's 80's. Just slowly gone to the pack. There was a wonderful culture in Australia and we had our own unique identity. Also long gone  

They are trying to do some of the same  in the US , but mostly by extending the retirement age. Lucky for many of us is that they cant change thing retroactively, so any changes would be for new recipients, 

The way I understand it is that you have paid for it trough you hard work , Payroll tax, and from returns on the investments they made with it, and don't let anyone say that the employer paid some of it. There is no such thing as a free lunch, The employer would be paying you more if he did not have the expense of payroll tax, it is still coming out of you. 

I have figured what I have paid into the system. and if they had let me keep it I could had bought a rental property with it, collect more rent than I get from social security, and still have the property to sell if I so desired. Now I have to beg to get my own money back. Thank god I have my union pension . Unions built America and politicians will destroy it. 

The goverment claims  that they can't afford the high cost of pensions, 

BS!!! they could if they did not contribute in the " Liberation "of other countries and all the other BS. Charity starts at home, you take care of your own people first and if you do have some leftover you help others. 

Anyway politicians are cowards , all they care is maintaining and expanding their own power . In the US we call social security the third rail of politics. You touch it and die. I suggest you all develop the same attitude, it is the only thing politicians understand . 

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Guessing you will be voting No to the Voice! ????

You guessed right. These do gooder's don't seem to realize the legal precedents they are setting for the future. Of course consider minorities and people less fortunate. But it seems these the majority have no voice and these tiny minority groups have all the voice. Everyone is too comfortable these days and while I am sure the majority of Australians don't agree with any of this new age, woke crep...most are too lazy to get off their bums and do / say anything. Therefore the squeaky wheel rule applies.   

[Kenny202]

21 minutes ago, sirineou said:

They are trying to do some of the same  in the US , but mostly by extending the retirement age. Lucky for many of us is that they cant change thing retroactively, so any changes would be for new recipients, 

The way I understand it is that you have paid for it trough you hard work , Payroll tax, and from returns on the investments they made with it, and don't let anyone say that the employer paid some of it. There is no such thing as a free lunch, The employer would be paying you more if he did not have the expense of payroll tax, it is still coming out of you. 

I have figured what I have paid into the system. and if they had let me keep it I could had bought a rental property with it, collect more rent than I get from social security, and still have the property to sell if I so desired. Now I have to beg to get my own money back. Thank god I have my union pension . Unions built America and politicians will destroy it. 

The goverment claims  that they can't afford the high cost of pensions, 

BS!!! they could if they did not contribute in the " Liberation "of other countries and all the other BS. Charity starts at home, you take care of your own people first and if you do have some leftover you help others. 

Anyway politicians are cowards , all they care is maintaining and expanding their own power . In the US we call social security the third rail of politics. You touch it and die. I suggest you all develop the same attitude, it is the only thing politicians understand . 

Yeah our pension age is 67 and probably rising, You will drop dead on your feet at work. We have to pay mandatory superannuation....have done for the last 30 odd years. Good idea I guess but all designed around lessening pensions. Comes out of our pay every month. The government has been talking like it is also theirs to manipulate and dictate lately. 

 

Been watching a special on Netflix about 9/11, war on terror etc and the money that was thrown away...billions unaccounted for and usually spread around to corrupt governments with no return. Multi million dollar bases and structure built and never used. It is a disgrace

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Yeah our pension age is 67 and probably rising, You will drop dead on your feet at work. We have to pay mandatory superannuation....have done for the last 30 odd years. Good idea I guess but all designed around lessening pensions. Comes out of our pay every month. The government has been talking like it is also theirs to manipulate and dictate lately. 

 

Been watching a special on Netflix about 9/11, war on terror etc and the money that was thrown away...billions unaccounted for and usually spread around to corrupt governments with no return. Multi million dollar bases and structure built and never used. It is a disgrace

Indeed it is, 

 9/11  terrorists , 15 of them were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one from Lebanon.

So we attacked Iraq . LOL . when after the war they did an audit, the could not account for $8 billion dollars!!! Someone or some ones are sitting pretty some place. Now we are spending billions to support Ukraine's  right  to join NATO. , never mind the economic impact cost it has on people.

But we cant afford universal medical insurance. it's so ludicrous that if it was not so sad , you would laugh. 

Anyway I hope you guys stand Up and give them hell it's the only thing they understand and respect.  

[Kenny202]

23 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Indeed it is, 

 9/11  terrorists , 15 of them were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one from Lebanon.

So we attacked Iraq . LOL . when after the war they did an audit, the could not account for $8 billion dollars!!! Someone or some ones are sitting pretty some place. Now we are spending billions to support Ukraine's  right  to join NATO. , never mind the economic impact cost it has on people.

But we cant afford universal medical insurance. it's so ludicrous that if it was not so sad , you would laugh. 

Anyway I hope you guys stand Up and give them hell it's the only thing they understand and respect.  

I don't think anyone will stand up anywhere. We are all so numbed out with the little giggle box in our hands (Smartphone) we just accept it and watch the world go by. I think we have already lived trough the best times this world will ever see. Seems like we are on a slippery slope and race to the bottom now

 

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't think anyone will stand up anywhere. We are all so numbed out with the little giggle box in our hands (Smartphone) we just accept it and watch the world go by. I think we have already lived trough the best times this world will ever see. Seems like we are on a slippery slope and race to the bottom now

 

Not necessarily

Through history there have been transitional and disruptive times where we transition from one era to another. (eg, Agricultural to industrial) , We are now transition to the Information era, and there will be disruptions and people will be left behind. The trick is what we do with the information because you know that the players will use that info for their own gain.

It has always been the case. 

So anyway we will how it all plays out, most likely it will be our children who do. All we can do is make the best, and try to stand up for our piece of the pie. 

Still I feel bad for you guys , It's not right to be treated the way you are. 

 

[Adumbration]

I am very interested in this thread.

 

At present I have too much money to qualify for the Australian OAP.  However I also have a number of very serious medical issues that are now getting much worse and I expect much of my capital will be spent on trying to maintain my health (or stay alive) over the next few years.

 

To the OP @Kenny202 is there not a potential elephant in the room that I think you have overlooked here?  You posted that you have a wife.  If you have a wife then Centrelink will require her income be assessed when calculating if you are eligible for the pension and what your benefit will be.  That is if your marriage was registered...a prequisite being you obtained a free to marry stat dec from your embassy.  Of course perhaps you are not married on paper.....or your wife is unemployed....

 

I would like absolute clarity on the following issue if anyone is able to provide it:

 

Can I go back at 65 then stay in Oz for two years, then at 67 apply for the pension, then once it is granted, leave for Thailand.  Or put another way, can the two year residency clock start ticking before you are eligible to apply for the OAP.

 

This is a very important issue for me and despite reading all the threads on this website regarding OAP not one has posted a definitive answer.  

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Adumbration

[ozfarang]

In answer to your residency question @Adumbrationyes you can and you will have portability like all other residents who never left the country prior to getting the OAP and departing Australia to retire

[Adumbration]

10 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

In answer to your residency question @Adumbrationyes you can and you will have portability like all other residents who never left the country prior to getting the OAP and departing Australia to retire

Thanks for your reply.  Is there a link to the information on this actual issue?

[Kenny202]

35 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I am very interested in this thread.

 

At present I have too much money to qualify for the Australian OAP.  However I also have a number of very serious medical issues that are now getting much worse and I expect much of my capital will be spent on trying to maintain my health (or stay alive) over the next few years.

 

To the OP @Kenny202 is there not a potential elephant in the room that I think you have overlooked here?  You posted that you have a wife.  If you have a wife then Centrelink will require her income be assessed when calculating if you are eligible for the pension and what your benefit will be.  That is if your marriage was registered...a prequisite being you obtained a free to marry stat dec from your embassy.  Of course perhaps you are not married on paper.....or your wife is unemployed....

 

I would like absolute clarity on the following issue if anyone is able to provide it:

 

Can I go back at 65 then stay in Oz for two years, then at 67 apply for the pension, then once it is granted, leave for Thailand.  Or put another way, can the two year residency clock start ticking before you are eligible to apply for the OAP.

 

This is a very important issue for me and despite reading all the threads on this website regarding OAP not one has posted a definitive answer.  

 

 

Not a registered / proper marriage wife. If you are married to a Thai woman and living here...even though she isn't receiving benefits or working you lose about 15% of your pension....just because you are married. the thinking is there are two of you living together and share expenses. Not the case with a Thai woman though as she probably wont be working and wont be receiving a pension. The whole thinking on that sucks. Even if you were with an Australian woman and she was working or also on a pension why should it be reduced?

 

And from my research yes you can go back at 65yo....the pension requirement only requires you are an Australian resident for 2 years before your pension is portable. You don't have to be on the pension and in Australia for 2 years. I know a few guys who have either done that or waited in Australia until they turned 67 before coming to live in Thailand...with their pension ????

[georgegeorgia]

You can apply from 67 

So I guess from 65 you have the 2 years residency

 

I don't know you hear so many BS stories ,I posted about this question and got posters writing they were away 7 years and still got it etc etc so whether they are BS I don't know 

[Will27]

16 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

You can apply from 67 

So I guess from 65 you have the 2 years residency

 

I don't know you hear so many BS stories ,I posted about this question and got posters writing they were away 7 years and still got it etc etc so whether they are BS I don't know 

Do you mean 7 years away from Australia?

[georgegeorgia]

15 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Do you mean 7 years away from Australia?

Yes people I notice tend to want to disagree with you if you post and they make up BS I believe.

 

So they wrote they were away 7 years from Australia and still got it( pension)  on arrival, whether they did ,how they did ,who knows?

Some just want to post to disagree with you even if it's not true.

Do I believe them,no !!

Edited August 7, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[Will27]

3 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Yes people I notice tend to want to disagree with you if you post and they make up BS I believe.

 

So they wrote they were away 7 years from Australia and still got it( pension)  on arrival, whether they did ,how they did ,who knows?

Some just want to post to disagree with you even if it's not true.

Do I believe them,no !!

Doesn't really matter how long you've been away.

 

As long as you're eligible, you can receive it.

You will however have to do your 2 year period in Australia to get portability.

 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

You can apply from 67 

Depends on your DOB e.g.

 

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/who-can-get-age-pension?context=22526

[scorecard]

On 6/18/2023 at 7:13 PM, Kenny202 said:

I was always under the impression it was 35 years working which I would be in months of + or - but not sure if that is still the case. Their website only states you need to have been a resident in Australia for at least 10 years and a citizen to qualify

You don't have to prove that you were working for the 35 years, You have to physically be in Oz for that period.

 

Also, i've read comments on other boards that you have to prove you paid personal OZ taxes for the 35 years. That's also not true.

 

The tax part of the puzzle is very simple:

- On the OAP application form you need to write in your Oz personal tax file number.

- When the centrelink computer is processing your OAP application (It's processed by the C'link computers in Canberra . It's NOT processed by individual offices) it does a check that the tax file you have quoted is valid. If yes the computer destroys the tax file number and at the same time 'ticks a box' to indicate you have passed the tax requirements. There is no check of when / what years / how much tax you paid.

The purpose: the laws / regulations re gaining the oap require that at some time in your life you have been an Oz tax payer. Having a file number suffices. 

Theres' regular references to how evil the 2 years compulsory stay is. It's not that bad.

 

The 2 years starts on the day you return to Oz (It DOESN'T start on the day your oap is approved).

 

During the 2 years you can leave Oz for holidays etc., several times. E.G. Take a holiday abroad for say 3 weeks perhaps 4 times every 12 months (just an example).

 

The time OUT of australia for 'holidays' doesn't stop or delay compiling the 2 years, it continues to build.

 

'FORCED EXILE' wow sounds like torture, extreme pain. It's not that bad, not at all.

 

If you receive the OAP you are required by law to inform C'link that you will travel abroad but many people don't. But C'Link knows anyway because they have a real time 24/7 link to immigration records, this detects your movements and adds this detail automatically to your C'link records. But there is no requirement to tell C'Link WHERE you are travelling to. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by scorecard

[Kenny202]

Not too sure about that old mate. I was under that assumption myself but they have two reference sections quoting 35 years....one is for eligibility to receive pension, the other is for portability and they use a reference called AWLR (Australian working life residency). I assume that means you have had to work 35 years to be eligible or maybe you are still eligible but your payments are reduced pro rata depending on the percentage of that 35 years you have been in Australia working. Happy to stand corrected if you know any different? Something I am going to have to clarify with a phone call before I return. I retired here when I was 50yo so my actual working years will be right on 35 or a few months under. (Started an apprenticeship at 15yo). Would be awful to go back for 2 years only to find out I couldn't receive my pension in Thailand ????

 

 

 

nce called     

[georgegeorgia]

There is no way you have to be "working for 35 years" ,that means half of Australia resident especially in areas such as  99 % Mount Druitt wouldn't qualify for the aged pension when they get to 67

 

Let's face it some have never had a job ,I had a brother on Unemployment benefits for 18 years , now he is on the aged pension 

 

There are plenty of expats who come back to Australia to serve the 2 year period who certainly didn't clock up 35 years working life in Australia 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by georgegeorgia