Switching from work permit to non-o

[statman78]

There is an American couple renting a house from us here in Thailand.  Both currently have valid work permits.  They would like to retire and stay in Thailand.  I am thinking that they need to cancel their work permits and obtain a non-o visa here in Thailand. Then near the end of the 90 days they could apply for retirement extensions.  They meet the age requirement.  Since they have work permits now there is no problem for them to open bank accounts and deposit 800,000 baht.  They told me that if each one needed an account with 800,000 they can do it.

 

A couple of questions.

 

1. Do they need to leave Thailand and enter visa exempt or can they switch from the work permit to a non-o while staying in Thailand?
 

2. Does each person need an account with 800,000 baht or can one of them get the retirement extension and the other stay in Thailand as a spouse of a retiree?

 

3. Are there other options?

 

Thanks in advance for your help

[Pouatchee]

11 minutes ago, statman78 said:

1. Do they need to leave Thailand and enter visa exempt or can they switch from the work permit to a non-o while staying in Thailand?

cant switch

 

must leave country

[brewsterbudgen]

13 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

cant switch

 

must leave country

Plenty of people have changed the reason for their Extension of Stay from being based on Work to being based on Retirement at their Immigration Office in Thailand (as long as they meet the requirements).

 

 

 

[ballpoint]

20 minutes ago, statman78 said:

1. Do they need to leave Thailand and enter visa exempt or can they switch from the work permit to a non-o while staying in Thailand?

Assuming they currently have Non B visas, then they don't need to change visa types, just change the reason for extension to Retirement.  If they have the money in the bank for the minimum period prior to doing this, then there's no need to exit the country.  Cancel the work permit and immediately go to immigration for a retirement extension.

 

I have done this twice over the years, once around 1995, from a Non B with work permit to  non B with marriage extension, and again in 2018, from a Non B with work permit to a Non B with retirement extension.  The current visa stamped in my passport, and transferred to my new one, is still the original Non B I got in Singapore in 2014.  The annual extension is a retirement one. The experience was fairly painless both times.

[Pouatchee]

13 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Plenty of people have changed the reason for their Extension of Stay from being based on Work to being based on Retirement at their Immigration Office in Thailand (as long as they meet the requirements).

 

 

 

well... good luck with that. i was told by immi officer no go. if they manage to do it good for them. would be nice if op updates his posts as his acquaintances go through the process

[Pouatchee]

14 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

non B with marriage extension, and again in 2018, from a Non B with work permit to a Non B with retirement extension. 

non o for marriage and retirement... not non b

[ballpoint]

24 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

non o for marriage and retirement... not non b

Not true.  You can extend a Non B for reasons of marriage or retirement.  Here's my current visa, transferred to my latest passport. 

 

 

I extend it every year for the retirement reason.

 

[bigt3116]

17 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

You can extend a Non B for reasons of marriage or retirement. 

No you can not, all your stamps mean are that you initially had a Non-B when you entered the country. Your Non-B was never extended, you may well have got an extension based on work and then swapped to an extension based on marriage or retirement. Visas are not nor never extended.

 

[ballpoint]

18 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

No you can not, all your stamps mean are that you initially had a Non-B when you entered the country. Your Non-B was never extended, you may well have got an extension based on work and then swapped to an extension based on marriage or retirement. Visas are not nor never extended.

 

Rubbish.  You initially enter the country on a certain visa.  That visa has an expiry date, which may be extended, for whatever valid reason, indefinitely, as long as you meet the requirements.  On this visa cycle (I have had others previously) I entered in December 2015 using a Non-B visa, issued by the Thai embassy in Singapore.  It was valid to February 2016, however I extended it to December 2016, for reason of employment.  I then extended it two more times, to Dec 2017 and Dec 2018 for the same reason.  In April 2018, I retired, cancelled my work permit, and extended the same visa to April 2019, for reason of retirement.  I did not have to cancel that visa and obtain a new one, either inside or outside the country, I went straight to immigration and did a standard TM7 extension. I now continue extending it each year since then for the same reason. You do not get a new visa every time you visit immigration each year, you extend the visa you currently hold.  There's a reason they call it "making a visa extension" and not "making a visa renewal" or "getting a new visa"  My visa type is not Non-O, or Non-OA, it continues to be my original Non-B.

 

Here's the TM-7 I submit every year, with personal stuff blacked out.  Note, it says "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM" at the top, and "NON IMMIGRANT B" as the "Type of Visa" that I am extending.

 

 

 

[bigt3116]

6 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

That visa has an expiry date, which may be extended,

This is where you are so wrong it is painful, please stop before you spread any more misinformation.

[statman78]

Thanks for the info.  I’ll talk to them and see what type of visa they originally had when they entered Thailand.

 

ballpoint, very good information.  I did not know that a non-imm b could be extended but your experience proves that it can.

 

 

[ballpoint]

23 minutes ago, statman78 said:

Thanks for the info.  I’ll talk to them and see what type of visa they originally had when they entered Thailand.

 

ballpoint, very good information.  I did not know that a non-imm b could be extended but your experience proves that it can.

 

 

According to the Immigration Department website, any Non-Immigrant visa may be extended for retirement reasons

 

Visa Extension – สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง – Immigration Bureau

 

 

[zackxx]

I worked in Thailand for 30 years under a Non-immigrant B visa and Work Permit. I  retired last year and got a Non-immigrant O visa. All done within Thailand. No expensive health insurance requirement. I paid into the Thai state run Social Security system  (ประกันสังคม)  and volunteered to keep paying into this system (THB432/month) instead of receiving a Thai pension to maintain all those hospitalisation benefits at a public hospital of my choice.

[ballpoint]

Further to this, the company I worked for when I retired arranged my work permit cancellation through their immigration agents, who provided me a list of what I'd need to change my visa extension - they supplied the standard documents required for a retirement extension (TM7, overstay acknowledgement form, etc)  They also had to give notice of my change of extension to immigration at Chamchuri Square as well, which is why I'd advise getting your ex-employer or their agent to assist.  Or hiring one yourself.

:

 

Immigration put the following stamp in my passport the day I applied for my new extension.  The translation says "change the reason for extension request to...".   My work permit cancellation letter was for April 14th,  I had to change to a retirement extension before that date, or else I would have had to exit the country and apply for a Non-O visa before coming back.  However, because I did it this way, at no point was my visa cancelled and a new Non-O issued, I continue to use my old Non-B one.

 

 

 

In summary:

 

My original extension, with work permit, expired November 2018

My notification of work permit cancellation (done by agent) was sent in March 2018, dated for 14th April

Notification of cancellation of current extension was done at Chamchuri Square.  I was given till April 14th to get a new extension or leave the country.

A new extension was done in Buri Ram on April 9th, with standard one year permission to stay.

I continue extending this annually.

At no point did my visa type change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zackxx]

3 hours ago, ballpoint said:

Not true.  You can extend a Non B for reasons of marriage or retirement.  Here's my current visa, transferred to my latest passport. 

 

 

I extend it every year for the retirement reason.

 

I worked in Thailand for 30 years under a Non-immigrant B visa and Work Permit. I  retired last year and got a Non-immigrant O visa. All done within Thailand. No expensive health insurance requirement. I paid into the Thai state run Social Security system  (ประกันสังคม)  and volunteered to keep paying into this system (THB432/month) instead of receiving a Thai pension to maintain all those hospitalisation benefits at a public hospital of my choice.

 

Great to see that other kiwis are in this forum. BOI? You must have a good job in Thailand...

[ballpoint]

9 minutes ago, zackxx said:

I worked in Thailand for 30 years under a Non-immigrant B visa and Work Permit. I  retired last year and got a Non-immigrant O visa. All done within Thailand. No expensive health insurance requirement. I paid into the Thai state run Social Security system  (ประกันสังคม)  and volunteered to keep paying into this system (THB432/month) instead of receiving a Thai pension to maintain all those hospitalisation benefits at a public hospital of my choice.

If possible, could you post a scan of the Non-O visa they placed in your passport when they changed it?  Unless they did so, you are still here on an extension of your original Non-B visa.

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, statman78 said:

1. Do they need to leave Thailand and enter visa exempt or can they switch from the work permit to a non-o while staying in Thailand?
 

2. Does each person need an account with 800,000 baht or can one of them get the retirement extension and the other stay in Thailand as a spouse of a retiree?

1. They can change extension of stay from work to retirement.

 

2. I think that accompany spouse in retirement is only for non-immigrant O-A – cannot easily find other information – so, probably both needs a bank deposit of 800k baht.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, ballpoint said:

Rubbish.  You initially enter the country on a certain visa.  That visa has an expiry date, which may be extended, for whatever valid reason, indefinitely, as long as you meet the requirements.  On this visa cycle (I have had others previously) I entered in December 2015 using a Non-B visa, issued by the Thai embassy in Singapore.  It was valid to February 2016, however I extended it to December 2016, for reason of employment.  I then extended it two more times, to Dec 2017 and Dec 2018 for the same reason.  In April 2018, I retired, cancelled my work permit, and extended the same visa to April 2019, for reason of retirement.  I did not have to cancel that visa and obtain a new one, either inside or outside the country, I went straight to immigration and did a standard TM7 extension. I now continue extending it each year since then for the same reason. You do not get a new visa every time you visit immigration each year, you extend the visa you currently hold.  There's a reason they call it "making a visa extension" and not "making a visa renewal" or "getting a new visa"  My visa type is not Non-O, or Non-OA, it continues to be my original Non-B.

 

Here's the TM-7 I submit every year, with personal stuff blacked out.  Note, it says "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM" at the top, and "NON IMMIGRANT B" as the "Type of Visa" that I am extending.

 

 

 

If the visa was extended, there would never be any need to re-entry permits. What is extended is your permission to stay. The reason for your permission to stay may change over the years, but your visa is ancient history. Its only importance in the application for an extension is that it confirms that you received a Non Immigrant permission to stay when originally entering Thailand. People are often confused by this, because Thailand's system of distinguishing between the "visa" and the "permission to stay" is not common around the world. Often, the distinction is unimportant. However, a failure to understand that you are not in Thailand on a visa can lead to trouble.

[ballpoint]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

If the visa was extended, there would never be any need to re-entry permits. What is extended is your permission to stay. The reason for your permission to stay may change over the years, but your visa is ancient history. Its only importance in the application for an extension is that it confirms that you received a Non Immigrant permission to stay when originally entering Thailand. People are often confused by this, because Thailand's system of distinguishing between the "visa" and the "permission to stay" is not common around the world. Often, the distinction is unimportant. However, a failure to understand that you are not in Thailand on a visa can lead to trouble.

Yes, but most of that is just semantics.  For the purpose of this thread:

You do not need to exit the country to get a new visa when going from a work permit to retirement extension.

You also do not need to change your visa in Thailand.

You cancel your work permit and associated extension of stay, and apply for a retirement extension before the date you are given to leave the country.

You will not get a new visa stamp in your passport, you will get a new extension. 

 

[bigt3116]

7 hours ago, ballpoint said:

You will not get a new visa stamp in your passport, you will get a new extension. 

The first correct piece of info you have posted!

 

Because the visa is NOT extended, only an extension of stay.

 

Terminology is not semantics, it can quite easily be the difference between overstay and not!

[Gaccha]

20 hours ago, ballpoint said:

Cancel the work permit and immediately go to immigration for a retirement extension

Must be on the same day?

 

What exactly happens on your passport on that day you cancel the work permit and go to immigration?

 

(That period is a time of anxiety because you can easily be forced to leave the country if things are screwed up)

[FriendlyFarang]

40 minutes ago, Gaccha said:

Must be on the same day?

No

The best way to do it is to get a letter from your employer which states that you stop your work with them in two weeks. Then you take this letter to immigration who will cancel your extension to the date stated. You can then apply for another extension. If there should be any difficulties you have 2 weeks to sort them out. At the date stated in the letter, or the day after, you go to cancel the work permit.

[FriendlyFarang]

22 hours ago, statman78 said:

1. Do they need to leave Thailand and enter visa exempt or can they switch from the work permit to a non-o while staying in Thailand?

There is no need to change to non-o, they can directly apply for a retirement extension when they stop working.

[ballpoint]

4 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

The first correct piece of info you have posted!

 

Because the visa is NOT extended, only an extension of stay.

 

Terminology is not semantics, it can quite easily be the difference between overstay and not!

Deleted.

 

Not going to sink to the level of the troll.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Rubbish

You have posted good advice along with pics.....

However stating that "it's just semantics" in regards to "VISA Extension" is wrong..

Visas cannot be extended.

 

Folk obtain an extension of their permission of stay.

That can be based on various grounds such as based on retirement, based on marriage etc.

 

 

[DrJoy]

3 hours ago, Gaccha said:

What exactly happens on your passport on that day you cancel the work permit and go to immigration

After cancellation of WP, u visit Immigration to cancel your non B.

 

You can buy a 7 day extension to leave the country for THB 1900/-

 

Immediately apply for extension of stay based on retirement (800k THB in the account)

[DrJoy]

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

 

Folk obtain an extension of their permission of stay.

He is confused between a visa and an extension of stay

[ballpoint]

18 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

He is confused between a visa and an extension of stay

Yet you do the same thing in your previous post:

 

20 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

After cancellation of WP, u visit Immigration to cancel your non B.

 

[bigt3116]

52 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

u visit Immigration to cancel your non B.

Non-B is a visa and therefore can not be cancelled

 

[Gaccha]

1 hour ago, bigt3116 said:

Non-B is a visa and therefore can not be cancelled

Every law firm website I have looked at describes it as a cancellation. What are you suggesting is occurring and what word is suitable?