Is CAC scan the right test for monitoring calcium supplement associated cardiovascular disease?

[Y Chang]

Recently I did a bone density test and based on the test score I have osteopenia, therefore I am planning to take calcium supplements.  

 

Searching on the web, there seems to be some studies which suggest that calcium supplements can increase the risk of heart attack.  Nevertheless, I still think that in my own situation the benefits outweigh the risk.  

 

However, I want to monitor if my intake of calcium supplement will indeed increase my risk of developing cardiovascular disease.  I plan to take a coronary artery calcium (CAC) scan before I start the supplements (this will serve as a baseline).  In a year or two, I will take the CAC scan again to check for any development on CV disease.  

 

My question is:  is the CAC scan the right test for this purpose?  If not, what will be the correct test?

 

Appreciate any input in advance!

[carlyai]

I am not a doctor but here are my results.

I had a high calcium score scan, so the cardiologist did an angiogram (I think that's what they call the look inside your arteries to your heart).

Dr found minimal plaque and said the calcium doesn't always build up inside the arteries. 

I know knowledgeable Sheryl doesn't agree with this.

What I'm trying to say is that (in my opinion) a high calcium score may not indicate high plaque buildup inside your arteries.

Best to see a good cardiologist.

My guy just said everyone your age should be on low dose cholesterol tablet. (77 years old at the time).

 

 

[Al BB]

32 minutes ago, Y Chang said:

Recently I did a bone density test and based on the test score I have osteopenia, therefore I am planning to take calcium supplements.  

 

Searching on the web, there seems to be some studies which suggest that calcium supplements can increase the risk of heart attack.  Nevertheless, I still think that in my own situation the benefits outweigh the risk.  

 

However, I want to monitor if my intake of calcium supplement will indeed increase my risk of developing cardiovascular disease.  I plan to take a coronary artery calcium (CAC) scan before I start the supplements (this will serve as a baseline).  In a year or two, I will take the CAC scan again to check for any development on CV disease.  

 

My question is:  is the CAC scan the right test for this purpose?  If not, what will be the correct test?

 

Appreciate any input in advance!

May I comment that your concern regarding heart attack are true ?. I have been diagnosed with (and I quote) " Severe calcific trileaflet AV causing severe AS........."

I wasn't aware of any issues (Except High BP) and the above was diagnosed recently as a result of an Echocardiograph.

I an currently on Meds to lower my BP,  and Cardiologist will review again in September.  The recommendation is that I may need a Transcatheter Aortic Valve Implementation (TAVI). Cost is estimated at 2MB +.

Hope this helps.

 

[Al BB]

34 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I am not a doctor but here are my results.

I had a high calcium score scan, so the cardiologist did an angiogram (I think that's what they call the look inside your arteries to your heart).

Dr found minimal plaque and said the calcium doesn't always build up inside the arteries. 

I know knowledgeable Sheryl doesn't agree with this.

What I'm trying to say is that (in my opinion) a high calcium score may not indicate high plaque buildup inside your arteries.

Best to see a good cardiologist.

My guy just said everyone your age should be on low dose cholesterol tablet. (77 years old at the time).

 

 

Yes, In my case its in a valve in the heart , not the artery. I am 79 BTW. I hope Carlyai is ok and takes your advice and see a good cardiologist. 

[carlyai]

49 minutes ago, Al BB said:

May I comment that your concern regarding heart attack are true ?. I have been diagnosed with (and I quote) " Severe calcific trileaflet AV causing severe AS........."

I wasn't aware of any issues (Except High BP) and the above was diagnosed recently as a result of an Echocardiograph.

I an currently on Meds to lower my BP,  and Cardiologist will review again in September.  The recommendation is that I may need a Transcatheter Aortic Valve Implementation (TAVI). Cost is estimated at 2MB +.

Hope this helps.

 

My Dr family friend in Australia had/having a valve replacement.

Pigs valve which they insert thru the leg artery. 

Minimal invasive surgery.

Not sure if it's the same valve.

[Al BB]

55 minutes ago, carlyai said:

My Dr family friend in Australia had/having a valve replacement.

Pigs valve which they insert thru the leg artery. 

Minimal invasive surgery.

Not sure if it's the same valve.

My Brother had Pigs Valve inserted 40 Years ago, aged 37, no min invasive surgery then. Been fine ????

Are you going to see a Cardiologist?  I paid 18K for the full examination, incl ; X Ray, ECG & Echocardiograph.

[Al BB]

Just now, Al BB said:

My Brother had Pigs Valve inserted 40 Years ago, aged 37, no min invasive surgery then. Been fine ????

Are you going to see a Cardiologist?  I paid 18K for the full examination, incl ; X Ray, ECG & Echocardiograph.

 

1 minute ago, Al BB said:

My Brother had Pigs Valve inserted 40 Years ago, aged 37, no min invasive surgery then. Been fine ????

Are you going to see a Cardiologist?  I paid 18K for the full examination, incl ; X Ray, ECG & Echocardiograph.

Sorry my reply should have been for the writer of the Original Post! ASpologies.

[save the frogs]

I think calcium supplements are bad for you and should be avoided.

I recommend you get calcium from diet. 

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/osteopenia#symptoms

 

Causes of Osteopenia

- not getting enough exercise

- a diet lacking calcium and Vitamin D

(plus others)

 

Osteopenia Diet

To get enough calcium and vitamin D, eat dairy products such as cheese, milk, and yogurt.

 

Osteopenia Exercises

Walking 30 minutes a day will strengthen your bones

(plus other exercises)

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by save the frogs

[Y Chang]

5 hours ago, carlyai said:

I am not a doctor but here are my results.

I had a high calcium score scan, so the cardiologist did an angiogram (I think that's what they call the look inside your arteries to your heart).

Dr found minimal plaque and said the calcium doesn't always build up inside the arteries. 

I know knowledgeable Sheryl doesn't agree with this.

What I'm trying to say is that (in my opinion) a high calcium score may not indicate high plaque buildup inside your arteries.

Best to see a good cardiologist.

My guy just said everyone your age should be on low dose cholesterol tablet. (77 years old at the time).

 

 

This is an interesting piece of data.  Thank you for sharing your experience.

[Sheryl]

The evidence linking calcium supplementation to risk of heart disease is mixed and weak. There is no evidence of causation and while some studies found correllation others did not. Notd that correllation does not always -- or even usually -- equal causation.

 

Osteoporosis significantly  worsens quality of life as well as increasing mortality.  As you have osteopenia you definitely need to ensure you get enough calcium and magnesium. (Don't overlook the  magnesium).  Whether you need supplements to achieve that depends

on your diet, age and sex. It is extremely difficult  for postmenopausal women of any age, and people of both sexes over age 71,  to get enough calcium by diet alone. 

 

In other words don't hesitate to take calcium (a prepartion that includes D3) if you need it but also supplement magnesium.

 

As for cardiac screening, calcium scans are  useful but costly and involves radiation exposure. I would certainly not recommend them annually.  Every 3-5 years would be more reasonable.

 

Exercise stress tests are a completly non-invasive test with no radiation exposure and inexpensive.  It picks up coronary artery disease in 80-85% of cases so not perfect.. but has the added benefit of also assessing overall cardiac fitness and thus can give an early indication of a need for more exercise etc.

 

I would suggest a baseline calcium scan and repeat in 3-5 years depending on results, and exercise stress test evey 1-2 years depending on results.

 

[Muhendis]

12 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I think calcium supplements are bad for you and should be avoided.

I recommend you get calcium from diet. 

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/osteopenia#symptoms

 

Causes of Osteopenia

- not getting enough exercise

- a diet lacking calcium and Vitamin D

(plus others)

 

Osteopenia Diet

To get enough calcium and vitamin D, eat dairy products such as cheese, milk, and yogurt.

 

Osteopenia Exercises

Walking 30 minutes a day will strengthen your bones

(plus other exercises)

 

 

That's all good stuff but don't forget your thyroid and kidneys need to be working properly.

Exercise and good diet go a long way to keeping the internals bits in good condition but sometimes things like kidneys need a bit of medication.

Regular, annual blood tests will reveal many small problems that are correctable by life style and/or dietry changes.

[swm59nj]

Just to be on the safe side.  You should speak to a doctor.  There is one person on the forum Sheryl.  Who appears to have medical training.  Other than that.  You will be taking advice from people without medical knowledge.  

[save the frogs]

I tried to find more information on this topic:

The calcium from supplements is not the same as calcium found in foods. 

 

https://saveourbones.com/can-calcium-cause-brain-lesions-kidney-stones-and-heart-attacks/

 

 Typical calcium supplements contain inorganic calcium (carbonate, citrate, dolomite, di-calcium phosphate, tri-calcium phosphate, coral, oyster shell or bone meal). Only a small amount of this “rock” calcium gets absorbed, so the remainder gets lodged in tissues where it doesn’t belong (such as the heart).

Second, the amount of calcium matters. Large amounts of inorganic calcium (participants took 500mg or more in the study) cannot be assimilated by the body. As noted above, only a small amount of this calcium is processed.

The more rock-like calcium you take, the more ends up in various body tissues…and not just your cardiovascular tissue, as you’ll learn next.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by save the frogs

[save the frogs]

also from the same source: 

calcium supplements may cause kidney stones

anyway, not sure if this information is reliable. 

this web site is trying to sell their brand of calcium supplements.

maybe some calcium supplements on the market are better than others. maybe the cheaper kinds will cause problems. that's one thing I would look at.

 

https://saveourbones.com/can-calcium-cause-brain-lesions-kidney-stones-and-heart-attacks/

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by save the frogs

[save the frogs]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It is extremely difficult  for postmenopausal women of any age, and people of both sexes over age 71,  to get enough calcium by diet alone. 

The folks at Johns Hopkins beg to differ ...

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/calcium-supplements-should-you-take-them

 

The Best Calcium Supplement is None

 

The truth is, the research is inconclusive. But there is a growing body of evidence that suggests no health benefit, or even worse, that calcium supplements may be harmful.

 

While taking calcium supplements may produce unwanted side effects, meeting your calcium needs through your diet is safe.

 

Most people can get adequate calcium through their diet if they make an effort.

 

 

[save the frogs]

best of luck in your healing, Y Chang

 

[RocketDog]

17 hours ago, Al BB said:

May I comment that your concern regarding heart attack are true ?. I have been diagnosed with (and I quote) " Severe calcific trileaflet AV causing severe AS........."

I wasn't aware of any issues (Except High BP) and the above was diagnosed recently as a result of an Echocardiograph.

I an currently on Meds to lower my BP,  and Cardiologist will review again in September.  The recommendation is that I may need a Transcatheter Aortic Valve Implementation (TAVI). Cost is estimated at 2MB +.

Hope this helps.

 

Maybe it will ease your mind to relate my brother's(76yo) recent USA transvalvular catheter replacement of his stenotic aortic valve, followed two weeks later by a catheter placement of clips on the prolapsing AV valve. Tye surgeon thought a porcine tissue valve wouod be needed but found clips added to native leaflets stiffened them enough to avoid gross prolapse. So far, so good, 2 months post-op.

Both done under sedation,  fully conscious procedure. Both fully successful with immediate relief of symptoms.

For reference he is obese, diabetic, on pressure meds.

These transvalvilar catheter procedures are relatively recent procedures but wildly successful and gaining popularity.

 

Good luck to you. Think positive.

Edited July 14, 2023 by RocketDog

[Al BB]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Maybe it will ease your mind to relate my brother's(76yo) recent USA transvalvular catheter replacement of his stenotic aortic valve, followed two weeks later by a catheter placement of clips on the prolapsing AV valve. Tye surgeon thought a porcine tissue valve wouod be needed but found clips added to native leaflets stiffened them enough to avoid gross prolapse. So far, so good, 2 months post-op.

Both done under sedation,  fully conscious procedure. Both fully successful with immediate relief of symptoms.

For reference he is obese, diabetic, on pressure meds.

These transvalvilar catheter procedures are relatively recent procedures but wildly successful and gaining popularity.

 

Good luck to you. Think positive.

Thanks, Staying Positive...as always. 

Regards

[save the frogs]

You may want to consider taking Vitamin K2 MK-7, ESPECIALLY if you decide to take the calcium supplements. But even if you don't. 

 

Vitamin K2 MK-7 decalcifies the arteries.

 

https://www.nutraceuticalbusinessreview.com/news/article_page/Vitamin_K2_MK-7_and_Cardiovascular_Calcification/147750#:~:text=Taking a daily vitamin K2,flexibility and elasticity to vessels.

 

Taking a daily vitamin K2 MK-7 supplement is an action people can take to prevent arterial calcification.

 

[Y Chang]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

You may want to consider taking Vitamin K2 MK-7, ESPECIALLY if you decide to take the calcium supplements. But even if you don't. 

 

Vitamin K2 MK-7 decalcifies the arteries.

 

https://www.nutraceuticalbusinessreview.com/news/article_page/Vitamin_K2_MK-7_and_Cardiovascular_Calcification/147750#:~:text=Taking a daily vitamin K2,flexibility and elasticity to vessels.

 

Taking a daily vitamin K2 MK-7 supplement is an action people can take to prevent arterial calcification.

 

Save the frogs, thank you for the info.  In the past couple days, I have also received advices from other sources regarding the role of Vitamin K2 in bone building and heart health.  I have also been reading more on calcium from natural sources (instead of supplements).  Turns out designing a high calcium diet may not be as difficult as I thought.  I may use a combination of supplements and food for calcium sources initially.  I am still going to get the CAC scan, so there is a reference point at least.

 

Thank you again for all the helpful advices.  And thank you everyone for the input and feedback.  Appreciate it!

[save the frogs]

9 hours ago, Y Chang said:

Turns out designing a high calcium diet may not be as difficult as I thought.  I may use a combination of supplements and food for calcium sources initially.  I am still going to get the CAC scan, so there is a reference point at least.

One last comment.

 

If I were you, I would increase calcium in diet AND increase exercise.

Try to change your lifestyle by adding more exercise.

Maybe just walking 30 minutes a day will help.

 

Maybe try it for a few months.

Then monitor.

If still no improvements, then add supplements.

 

I would keep the supplements as a last resort as I have heard too many negative things about calcium supplements. 

 

Best wishes on your healing journey.

 

 

[save the frogs]

I just looked at my coconut water container label.

 

It has 35mg of Calcium per 375 ml.

Never even realized coconut water had calcium. I knew it had Magnesium and Potassium.

 

So it might be worth it to consider adding coconut water to diet in addition to dairy for calcium requirements.