Unethical Business Practice.

[Dazinoz]

Let me first acknowledge that this is Thailand and things are generally not the same but I feel strongly about this so seeking some help.

 

A lady friend of mine works in a massage shop. If she doesn't do a massage she gets no money. Fair enough. As an example if she does a 1 hour oil massage, customer pays 300 baht, she gets 120 and shop 180. Fair enough I guess. No customers no pay. As an example if she were to sit at the shop for more than 12 hours every day for 5 days and no customers she gets nothing. Here is the part that gets me. Last week she went home for 5 days. She had to pay shop 500baht/day (2500baht). Now at her rate that is 21 massages.  She definately would NOT get that many massages  in 5 days. Its a small shop very close to other bigger more popular shops.

 

I tried to tell her to leave shop and she said she dare not as owner a friend of the family and gave her job. I said she is not paying you but takes no notice. I had a falling out wit the boss over this and now my friend is no longer my friend.

 

Does anyone know where, if anywhere, I could report this practice? I am in Chiang Mai. I know probably a waste of time but if I don't try nothing will happen.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Dazinoz
Added text.Change typo fro 121 to 21 massages.

[ArnieP]

https://complaint.ocpb.go.th/#

[save the frogs]

12 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

She had to pay shop 500baht/day (2500baht). Now at her rate that is 121 massages.

you lost me. how do you get 121 massages?

180 x 3 = 540

so it's roughly the amount the shop would receive if she did 3 massages per day

[lopburi3]

11 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I had a falling out wit the boss over this and now my friend is no longer my friend.

Seems might be better to take no for an answer and move on.  Foreign input is not likely to be appreciated no matter how good your intentions.  

[Dazinoz]

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

you lost me. how do you get 121 massages?

180 x 3 = 540

so it's roughly the amount the shop would receive if she did 3 massages per day

Oops. An error. Error corrected.

 

And she only gets 120 baht per massage, Shop gets 180. So she would need to get 21 massages to pay the 2500 she had to pay owner which would only be 4 per day but many days she gets none.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Dazinoz

[Lacessit]

Even the relative rate the shop pays itself and her is way too much. My massage lady who runs a shop in Chiang Rai has 3 or 4 women working for her. Thai massage ( no oil ) is 150 baht. The women get 100 baht, she takes 50. They don't have to wait in the shop, she calls them if there is an influx of customers.

 

The owner is no friend of the family, and is extracting the urine.

 

IMO it is casual work, and no government agency would be interested. Perhaps if you presented her with data from other shops which demonstrates she is being exploited, although she may also regard that as loss of face.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Lacessit

[JayClay]

Did she want to go home by herself, of her own accord?

 

Or was she inviting you to take her to her home town? There's a big difference. 

[Dazinoz]

9 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Seems might be better to take no for an answer and move on.  Foreign input is not likely to be appreciated no matter how good your intentions.  

Sad to say you are probably right but I feel strongly about this happening to a friend. To make it worse the greedy owner has a very rich farang boyfriend.

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, JayClay said:

Did she want to go home by herself, of her own accord?

 

Or was she inviting you to take her to her home town? There's a big difference. 

Yes I know a big difference and that is why this is a sore point with me. She wanted to go herself I did not invite her.

[Dazinoz]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Even the relative rate the shop pays itself and her is way too much. My massage lady who runs a shop in Chiang Rai has 3 or 4 women working for her. Thai massage ( no oil ) is 150 baht. The women get 100 baht, she takes 50. They don't have to wait in the shop, she calls them if there is an influx of customers.

 

The owner is no friend of the family, and is extracting the urine.

 

IMO it is casual work, and no government agency would be interested. Perhaps if you presented her with data from other shops which demonstrates she is being exploited, although she may also regard that as loss of face.

Shop is in Loi Kroh road so charges standard rate for the area. As far as girls not at shop owner told me before If I took girl to dinner I had to "bar (massage) fine" her because she is not physically at the shop. Often 3 girls sit all day and my friend often says no customers today.

 

And you are right about no friend but my lady friend does not see that.

 

Like I said I probably wont have any success but I feel too strongly about this to just let it go.

[ezzra]

In theory , Thailand has very strong and stringent labour laws, in practical, it's the law of the jungle out there with employers pretty much dictating their own rules.

[Dazinoz]

29 minutes ago, ArnieP said:

https://complaint.ocpb.go.th/#

I checked this out and is more for a complaint between a business and myself. It also requires documentary evidence and states if none attached complaint will not proceed.

 

Thanks anyway.

[bluebluewater]

This:  Let Thai people take care of a Thai problem

[johnnybangkok]

36 minutes ago, ezzra said:

In theory , Thailand has very strong and stringent labour laws, in practical, it's the law of the jungle out there with employers pretty much dictating their own rules.

This is very wrong. Thai labour offices take these sort of things very seriosusly and will take up her case if it's justified.
All she has to do is take her complaint to the local Labour office and put in a complaint. She WILL be heard and if they are breaking the law, she will get compensation and the owners will be fined and/or worse. However I think your biggest issue will be if she is willing to go and complain since it's a 'friend of the family'. If she does she will get a fair hearing and by the sounds of it, will win but it's getting her to do it in the first place. In the meantime, I found the following information for you:-

 

Location Chiang Mai Provincial Labor Office , Administration Building, 1st floor, Chiang Mai City Hall, Chotana Road, Chang Phueak Subdistrict, Mueang District, Chiang Mai 50300.

Telephone 0 5311 2621-2.

Email chiangmai @mol.mail.go.th.

Edited July 19, 2023 by johnnybangkok

[bignok]

50/50 split normally. Your friend is being ripped off. Mind your own business though if you don't want trouble.

[ArnieP]

18 minutes ago, bignok said:

50/50 split normally.

Not in massage places in Thailand.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

Here is the part that gets me. Last week she went home for 5 days. She had to pay shop 500baht/day (2500baht).

Here is the part that gets me...presumably she was aware of that condition when she accepted the job, a condition that ensures that she isn't replaced by a new masseuse in her absence and her job is safe even though the owner may not have enough staff to cover in those five days? 

 

  

.

[bignok]

1 minute ago, ArnieP said:

Not in massage places in Thailand.

Yes it is. Known a few. They got 50%.

[Dazinoz]

23 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Here is the part that gets me...presumably she was aware of that condition when she accepted the job, a condition that ensures that she isn't replaced by a new masseuse in her absence and her job is safe even though the owner may not have enough staff to cover in those five days? 

 

  

.

So if she knew it makes it ok for owner to rip her off? Girls come and go not a problem to have enough staff. Actually she has 3 shops so just moved girls between them. 

 

Actually thinking about it owner changed rules many time. When I first started taking lady out to dinner I was told 500 baht. Then It was free for 1 hour and 500 for longer. Than changed to free 1 hour, 300 up to 2 hours then 500 longer. Then changed to 300 for up to 1.5 hours and 500 longer. So no set rules and I am almost 100% positive she would have been told the conditions because owner keeps changing to suit condition.

 

A bar I sometimes goto bar fine is 500. Girls get 300 and bar 200. The massage owner gets ALL the fine.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Dazinoz
Text added.

[Dazinoz]

27 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

This is very wrong. Thai labour offices take these sort of things very seriosusly and will take up her case if it's justified.
All she has to do is take her complaint to the local Labour office and put in a complaint. She WILL be heard and if they are breaking the law, she will get compensation and the owners will be fined and/or worse. However I think your biggest issue will be if she is willing to go and complain since it's a 'friend of the family'. If she does she will get a fair hearing and by the sounds of it, will win but it's getting her to do it in the first place. In the meantime, I found the following information for you:-

 

Location Chiang Mai Provincial Labor Office , Administration Building, 1st floor, Chiang Mai City Hall, Chotana Road, Chang Phueak Subdistrict, Mueang District, Chiang Mai 50300.

Telephone 0 5311 2621-2.

Email chiangmai @mol.mail.go.th.

Thanks for the info but I know she won’t do it. 

[bignok]

21 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Thanks for the info but I know she won’t do it. 

So forget it.

[bignok]

2 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

had a falling out wit the boss over this and now my friend is no longer my friend.

Thats Thailand. Nobody likes confrontation. You lost a friend. Lesson there. Don't do it again.

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

So forget it.

Obviously I will have to. I was hoping to be able to report myself but obviously not.

 

 

[bignok]

Just now, Dazinoz said:

Obviously I will have to. I was hoping to be able to report myself but obviously not.

 

 

How long have you been visiting Thailand? 

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

Thats Thailand. Nobody likes confrontation. You lost a friend. Lesson there. Don't do it again.

Yep, annoying part about that is I gave her a considerable sum of money to go home but now she supporting owner. As you say. TiT.

[Dazinoz]

Just now, bignok said:

How long have you been visiting Thailand? 

Lived here 10 years. I know I should know better but sometimes something bugs me so much.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

Does anyone know where, if anywhere, I could report this practice?

Up to her to report it no good you doing it.

[bignok]

5 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Yep, annoying part about that is I gave her a considerable sum of money to go home but now she supporting owner. As you say. TiT.

Another thing dont lend money. Was she your girlfriend?

Edited July 19, 2023 by bignok

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

Another thing dont lend money.

Learnt about lending a looooong time ago. This was a gift.

 

[itsari]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

This is very wrong. Thai labour offices take these sort of things very seriosusly and will take up her case if it's justified.
All she has to do is take her complaint to the local Labour office and put in a complaint. She WILL be heard and if they are breaking the law, she will get compensation and the owners will be fined and/or worse. However I think your biggest issue will be if she is willing to go and complain since it's a 'friend of the family'. If she does she will get a fair hearing and by the sounds of it, will win but it's getting her to do it in the first place. In the meantime, I found the following information for you:-

 

Location Chiang Mai Provincial Labor Office , Administration Building, 1st floor, Chiang Mai City Hall, Chotana Road, Chang Phueak Subdistrict, Mueang District, Chiang Mai 50300.

Telephone 0 5311 2621-2.

Email chiangmai @mol.mail.go.th.

You are right what you say yet dont forget if you use the law you will be blacklisted and find trouble getting employment .

That happens in the west too .