Medical Insurance start date question when entering from overseas for Non O-A Long Stay Retirement Visa

[Bodger2222]

Hi 

 

I am in the process of applying for a Non O-A Long Stay Retirement Visa from South Africa.

 

I am not planning to actually leave South Africa until October/November but if all goes to plan I will receive the visa in my passport in September.

 

I have to provide medical insurance to apply for this visa. I am applying with LMG and they are asking for a start date for the policy.

 

I also have to provide a provisional flight booking for within 2 weeks of the date that I submit the Visa application. (I'm not obligated to use this booking its just for the purpose of the application).

 

Ideally I want the Medical Insurance to start when I first enter Thailand but I can't enter that date as part of my application to the Consulate as I dont know it yet.

 

Also my understanding is that the 12 month visa only actually starts on the day I enter Thailand e.g. 1 November 2023 to expire on 31 October 2024. But my Medical Insurance is going to have a start date of some time in September when I submit the application, so it will expire before the 12 months Visa will expire.

 

So its quite confusing what start date I must put on the Medical Insurance.

 

Of course i can delay the application to closer when I want to leave but Id rather get it in my passport sooner so Im free to go at short notice as I cant commit to a real travel date right now. Either way the medical insurance will still expire before the Visa expires.

 

Would appreciate your advice on how to best handle this situation.

 

Thanks very much

 

 

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

When you apply for non O-A that visa has a validity of 12 months.

This means that it's a poor plan to apply early.

Yes every entry provides a 12 month permission of stay.

However that is only for the validity of the visa.

 

You may read that non O-A can provide almost 2 years of stay in Thailand.

That is possible if the non O-A is issued shortly prior to first entry and you do a exit/reentry just prior to visa expiry.

 

How long do you wish to stay in Thailand? 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[Bodger2222]

I plan to be in Thailand full time and will be renewing the visa each year. So it will be an ongoing renewal.

 

Even if I apply as close as possible to departure date, the medical insurance will still be expiring before the visa ends and I have to commit to a start date when I make the application.

 

Is there any issue with the medical insurance expiring before the visa expires 12 months after entry or any way to avoid it.

[biervoormij]

When I did my O-A I booked my flight to arrive on the same day as my  insurance would start so I would get the full year. I believe if you only have 11 months on your insurance when you enter Thailand they will only give you 11 months on your permission to stay.

 

Have you considered getting a tourist visa or entering with visa exemption and then converting to an Non-Imm-O based on retirement visa so you do not have the insurance requirements?

 

I killed off my O-A this year by leaving the country and am now on a Non-Imm-O based on retirement.

[DrJack54]

42 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

Is there any issue with the medical insurance expiring before the visa expires 12 months after entry or any way to avoid it.

The permission of stay will only be issued till the date of expiry of insurance. Poor plan.

 

You state that you wish to live in Thailand ongoing.

Obtaining a non O-A is bad option.

MANY folk living  in Thailand having a non O-A have exited Thailand to kill off their non O-A and reentered with a non O based on retirement. 

 

EDIT: I posted same time as @biervoormij and he killed off non O-A as I mentioned

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[Bodger2222]

I looked into the Non O, but unfortunately I can't apply for a Non O from South Africa - not available anymore according to the consulate!

 

How do you convert a tourist visa to Non O?

 

Thanks for the advice.

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

I looked into the Non O, but unfortunately I can't apply for a Non O from South Africa - not available anymore according to the consulate!

 

How do you convert a tourist visa to Non O?

 

Thanks for the advice.

You can do a "conversion " from a tourist visa OR visa exempt entry using a TM86 or T87 respectively.

 

The main issue is need to have Thai bank account in your name only and ability to meet financial requirements.

800k on day of application for non O retirement 

 

How long do you wish to stay in Thailand? 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[Bodger2222]

I can enter on visa exempt from South Africa.

 

I already have the thai bank account with the required funds as I previously was on the O-A retirement visa prior to coming back to South Africa 18 months ago and then the visa expired.

 

So I am starting from new but can produce the bank statement no problem.

 

So it seems the best way is to just arrive on the visa exempt and then convert to non O at the Phang Nga Immigration based on retirement?

 

I plan to be there long term with the odd trip out of Thailand.

 

The Non O sounds much better than the O-A.

 

As long as i can apply within Thailand once I'm there on the visa exempt then I dont see why that wouldnt be a much better plan.

 

No insurance required and no planning before I leave. As soon as im ready I can just book a flight.

 

One question - if i am entering on a visa exempt do i need to have a return ticket or can I enter on a one way ticket as i know I wont be leaving again any time soon?

 

Any other considerations?

 

Thanks again

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bodger2222

[biervoormij]

17 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

I looked into the Non O, but unfortunately I can't apply for a Non O from South Africa - not available anymore according to the consulate!

 

How do you convert a tourist visa to Non O?

 

Thanks for the advice.

I think that the following thread outlines the process. I am sure I would forget something if I tried to answer your question but am sure @DrJack54 can answer any additional questions.

 

You have to apply for 90 day non-imm-O and after you get it you will have to apply to extend it for the 12 months so going through the process a couple of times. The benefit is no health insurance requirements and you also don't need the medical or background check the O-A requires.

 

The downside of the non-imm-O is you have to get a bank account opened and the 800K in the account in a short period of time. Also have read some immigration offices want you to have a 12 month lease when applying.

 

 

[DrJack54]

30 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

As long as i can apply within Thailand once I'm there on the visa exempt then I dont see why that wouldnt be a much better plan.

It is best option given that you plan living in Thailand ongoing.

 

There have been couple of posts recently of "conversion" from visa exempt to non O retirement being issue at couple of rogue offices.

Thinking @Red Phoenix has posted re that.

 

You could consider obtaining tourist visa for entry .

Don't know if SA have eVisa. 

 

Bottom line is to live ongoing in Thailand forget the non O-A plan

 

Many threads on this.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1282251-visa-exempt-to-non-o-retirement-dates/

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[Bodger2222]

Thanks again for the help.

 

The Non O sounds a definite game changer.

 

You said....

You could consider obtaining tourist visa for entry .

Don't know if SA have eVisa. 

 

What would be the reason/benefit for applying for a tourist visa/eVisa versus visa exempt?

 

And any thoughts on the one way flight?

 

Thanks very much

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

Thanks again for the help.

 

The Non O sounds a definite game changer.

 

You said....

You could consider obtaining tourist visa for entry .

Don't know if SA have eVisa. 

 

What would be the reason/benefit for applying for a tourist visa/eVisa versus visa exempt?

 

And any thoughts on the one way flight?

 

Thanks very much

Regarding obtaining tourist visa over enter visa exempt is down to recent couple of posts of rogue offices not accepting conversion from visa exempt to non O using TM87.

I mentioned this in previous post.

@Red Phoenix has posted about that previosly

 

Which immigration office will you be dealing with.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[Bodger2222]

Phang Nga Immigration

 

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

Phang Nga Immigration

 

Thinking you will be fine using TM87 to obtain non O retirement at that immigration office..

You will need 800k in Thai bank account in your name only on day of application.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

52 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

One question - if i am entering on a visa exempt do i need to have a return ticket or can I enter on a one way ticket as i know I wont be leaving again any time soon?

Your airline is likely to insist that you have an onward flight ticket out of Thailand within 30 days. You can meet the requirements with a cheap throwaway ticket (skyscanner.net is good for finding these), a fully refundable ticket, or a rental ticket that gives you a ticket available for a couple of days to meet the requirement.

[Bodger2222]

you said....Your airline is likely to insist that you have an onward flight ticket out of Thailand within 30 days.

 

So if the airline is Ok then its not an issue - i.e. will thai immigration want to see a return flight?

 

 

I really appreciate all the help and advice.

 

Thanks so much

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bodger2222

[JimTripper]

2 hours ago, Bodger2222 said:

I plan to be in Thailand full time and will be renewing the visa each year. So it will be an ongoing renewal.

 

Even if I apply as close as possible to departure date, the medical insurance will still be expiring before the visa ends and I have to commit to a start date when I make the application.

 

Is there any issue with the medical insurance expiring before the visa expires 12 months after entry or any way to avoid it.

With an o-a I only got stamped in at the airport until the day my insurance expired

[DrJack54]

OP if entering Thailand visa exempt google ..onwardtickek.com

The airline departure may/will require onward flight.

Rent a ticket for 12 USD works fine

 

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

So if the airline is Ok then its not an issue - i.e. will thai immigration want to see a return flight?

Yes.

The onward flight is purely for airline at departure.

Upon arrival Thai immigration not interested in onward flight 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

So if the airline is Ok then its not an issue - i.e. will thai immigration want to see a return flight?

Immigration will almost never ask to see an onward flight reservation.

[Bodger2222]

ive done one way tickets with Qatar a few times and they have never queried it.

 

Do you mean when i check in at the departing airport that they might want to see an onward flight?

 

Thanks

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bodger2222

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

I was more concerned about Immigration on arrival - do they normally check for a return ticket

Never. 

[Bodger2222]

Are you saying that when i check in at the departing airport that they might want to see an onward flight?

 

Apologies for all the questions. This is the last one!!

 

Moving to a Non O has been a huge help. Just want to be sure I have everything clear.

 

Thanks very much

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bodger2222

[DrJack54]

25 minutes ago, Bodger2222 said:

Are you saying that when i check in at the departing airport that they might want to see an onward flight?

 

Apologies for all the questions. This is the last one!!

 

Moving to a Non O has been a huge help. Just want to be sure I have everything clear.

 

Thanks very much

Yes regarding airline requesting to see onward flight.

Immigration on arrival will not ask to see onward flight.

The critical thing when obtaining non O in Thailand is to have a Thai bank account in place.

 

Re onward flight at departure I have suggested in other thteads....

try obtain boarding pas and if airline insists upon onward flight step away from counter and do online ticket with company such as "onwardticket.com" it's a 2 minute process .

 

Screenshot of ticket is sufficient for airline. 

Obviously you need internet.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

9 hours ago, Bodger2222 said:

Do you mean when i check in at the departing airport that they might want to see an onward flight?

While the airline might not, commonly, the check in staff at your departure airport will want to see an onward flight out of Thailand within 30 days when you have no Thai visa. Sometimes, when this happens, the airline supervisor will allow you to travel if you sign an indemnity form guaranteeing to reimburse the airline for any costs they might suffer should you be denied entry. That possibility cannot be relied upon.

[Andrew Dwyer]

As said previously, but just to sum up.

Forget the OA ( not a good visa anymore with the addition of health insurance complicating things ).

Visa exempt arrival is your easiest option ( requires bank account and funds, but seems like you have this covered ).

Re: a return ticket: use onwardticket.com to obtain a ticket out of Thailand ( eg: BKK to Phnom Phen ) will cost around 14 US$ , book date for close to end of your visa exempt date ( i.e. 28/29 days after arrival. Departures from SA check in staff may request this, but maybe not , worth the peace of mind.

Apply for your non imm O visa at Phang Nga immigration shortly after arrival ( 4 or 5 days )to allow time for any documentation to be gathered, a 30 day extension can be obtained if you need more time.

 

A visa exempt/ non imm O procedure is simple, many have done it, including myself 8 months ago.

[Red Phoenix]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

As said previously, but just to sum up.

Forget the OA ( not a good visa anymore with the addition of health insurance complicating things ).

Visa exempt arrival is your easiest option ( requires bank account and funds, but seems like you have this covered ).

Re: a return ticket: use onwardticket.com to obtain a ticket out of Thailand ( eg: BKK to Phnom Phen ) will cost around 14 US$ , book date for close to end of your visa exempt date ( i.e. 28/29 days after arrival. Departures from SA check in staff may request this, but maybe not , worth the peace of mind.

Apply for your non imm O visa at Phang Nga immigration shortly after arrival ( 4 or 5 days )to allow time for any documentation to be gathered, a 30 day extension can be obtained if you need more time.

 

A visa exempt/ non imm O procedure is simple, many have done it, including myself 8 months ago.

Excellent summary of best route to follow for OP's situation! ????

[Bodger2222]

Thanks so much to everyone for the brilliant feedback - really has helped me significantly.

 

Great forum as always and much appreciated.

[818Pilot]

I just converted my visa exempt to Non-o in CM and it was painless. When they issued the initial 90 day non-o, I applied for a single re-entry so I could head back to the US to take care of stuff for my perm move. Some will disagree with this choice, but I still got insurance, and will keep it until I don't fell it's necessary, doesn't pay for things, or becomes incredibly expensive where saving the premiums would be a better choice. At 57, I'm fortunate that prices are reasonable and compared to the US, I'd say they are very reasonable.  I just don't want to be mandated to buy it. 

[rwill]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:05 PM, Bodger2222 said:

I plan to be in Thailand full time and will be renewing the visa each year. So it will be an ongoing renewal.

 

Even if I apply as close as possible to departure date, the medical insurance will still be expiring before the visa ends and I have to commit to a start date when I make the application.

 

Is there any issue with the medical insurance expiring before the visa expires 12 months after entry or any way to avoid it.

Basically what happens is if your insurance expires before a full year your permission to stay will only be until the date the insurance expires.  It's really only a problem the first time as long as your insurance expires the same date each year.

 

But as many have already stated it's better to do the NON-O rather than the NON O-A if possible.

Edited August 5, 2023 by rwill