All the new condos

[georgegeorgia]

A lot of new condos still being built and I must say I'm very tempted to buy a studio or 1 bedroom for the future.

 

I liked the Arcadia beach resort condominiums in jomtien ( well on the way to jomtien) I can't remember exactly where it is but I stayed there a few nights and enjoyed it 

 

Does anyone live in Arcadia beach resort condos ( it's no where near the beach by the way)

 

But anyway the more I thought about it ,I couldn't live in a 1 bedroom 26sqm room and then there was tourist visitors with screaming kids by the pool to put up with.

 

The thing is ,those type will be hard to rent out to people if I needed money as a landlord  and no resale value really 

 

Some of these all completely same look inside ,no difference ranged from 1 million to 1.8 million.,I guess depending on floor 

 

 

There is going to be too many condo going up ,the question is why ?

 

Do you think Pattaya / jomtien needs all these in the future?

Edited August 5, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[bbko]

When the buyers dry up so will the construction.

[scubascuba3]

Developers make money so they will keep building. Best to buy an older condo, better value, bigger

[BenStark]

3 minutes ago, bbko said:

When the buyers dry up so will the construction.

I believe much of the buyers has dried up already.

 

I have a friend who delivers a certain object to most of those constructions, and he explained to me that many of those projects have no other choice as to start building, because otherwise they lose their approved financing.

[Shop mak]

If your goal is to rent out, I would go for a larger studio 34sqm+  in Buakhao 15.

In high demand and very very popular location for rentals, be it airbnb or regular real estate companies, (except currently, when road work are back on, for another 6-12 months in Buakhao 15).

Normally start at 2,2 mill up, to purchase.

 

If mainly for yourself, any place you like.

In Jomtien I would go for VT 5 or 7 near Dongtan beach, if my goal was to rent out the unit, only when I return home.

Half way between Pattaya and Jomtien, would not be my location of choice, but, up to you.

 

Maybe a good idea to wait another 6-12 months to see, if any major changes to retirement visa requirements, or not.

[Lacessit]

When I read other threads about changes to Immigration law, e.g. increasing financial requirements, buying any property in Thailand does not make sense.

It looks even less sensible, when some of the new condos are probably built from toad s##t, ceiling wax, and duct tape.

[georgegeorgia]

Yes I do like some of those units in that road between Pattaya and jomtien but yes renting them out to tenant would be difficult.

 

[Pattaya57]

23 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

But anyway the more I thought about it ,I couldn't live in a 1 bedroom 26sqm room and then there was tourist visitors with screaming kids by the pool to put up with.

 

The thing is ,those type will be hard to rent out to people if I needed money as a landlord  and no resale value really 

 

Some of these all completely same look inside ,no difference ranged from 1 million to 1.8 million.,I guess depending on floor 

You are talking a 1.0 to 1.8 million condo and then complain they're only 26 sqm and very basic? What do you expect in any country for only US$30k

 

Go look at a real condo for 5-6 million baht, that'll get you a very nice 100sqm 2 bedroom condo 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

The thing is ,those type will be hard to rent out to people if I needed money as a landlord  and no resale value really 

Remember, location, location, location.... places like VT 6 rent well and hold good value. 

[Henryford]

Yes i've always wondered why they are building so many condos, another 2,000 going up at the Grand Solaire near Pratamnack. I guess it's to launder dirty money.

 

The Arcadia is in a bad location. The bottom of a big hill and nothing close within walking distance. I would never buy anything that wasn't on the baht bus route and with some shops/bars in walking distance. Plus the rooms are very small. OK to rent out for short terms but you could never live in 26 sqm.

[JimTripper]

Too small, broski.

 

You would end up renting off AirBNB, cleaning the room everyday, and learning Hindi & Chinese.

Long term renters that speak English can’t live in rooms that small.

Better chance of buying at Nirun and finding a long term broke expat to rent.

[georgegeorgia]

6 hours ago, Henryford said:

Yes i've always wondered why they are building so many condos, another 2,000 going up at the Grand Solaire near Pratamnack. I guess it's to launder dirty money.

 

The Arcadia is in a bad location. The bottom of a big hill and nothing close within walking distance. I would never buy anything that wasn't on the baht bus route and with some shops/bars in walking distance. Plus the rooms are very small. OK to rent out for short terms but you could never live in 26 sqm.

Yes your right , they are very small 1 bedroom 26sqm 

But I love the pool and good gym they have , I think the building fees are 18k a year compared to the view talay which I heard was 45k???? could I live in such a small room all the time ??? No 

[georgegeorgia]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Remember, location, location, location.... places like VT 6 rent well and hold good value. 

Yes ,although some buy in bad location but remember 10 years from now it could be a good location 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, georgegeorgia said:

Yes ,although some buy in bad location but remember 10 years from now it could be a good location 

Change comes slowly here.......

[newnative]

41 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Yes your right , they are very small 1 bedroom 26sqm 

But I love the pool and good gym they have , I think the building fees are 18k a year compared to the view talay which I heard was 45k???? could I live in such a small room all the time ??? No 

   The typical studios at VT3, VT5C, VT5D, VT6, and VT7, which are mostly 48sqm, would not have condo fees of 45,000 baht a year.   Faz Waz gives the VT6 fee as 40 baht a sqm.  I think some of the other VT projects have cheaper fees; Faz Waz has VT5's fee at 15 baht a sqm.    So, for VT6, 48sqm x 40 baht equals 1,920 baht a month. Times 12 months equals 23,040 baht a year.  

[sqwakvfr]

Does Thailand have Zoning laws?  I still amazed at how the infrastructure in BKK can support so many high rise condo buildings.  

[georgegeorgia]

6 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Does Thailand have Zoning laws?  I still amazed at how the infrastructure in BKK can support so many high rise condo buildings.  

Theres a house owned by farang just near the Arcadia beach resort condos in Pattaya that has a construction site next to it ,they are building another condo.

The balconies will overlook his backyard 

[scubascuba3]

28 minutes ago, newnative said:

   The typical studios at VT3, VT5C, VT5D, VT6, and VT7, which are mostly 48sqm, would not have condo fees of 45,000 baht a year.   Faz Waz gives the VT6 fee as 40 baht a sqm.  I think some of the other VT projects have cheaper fees; Faz Waz has VT5's fee at 15 baht a sqm.    So, for VT6, 48sqm x 40 baht equals 1,920 baht a month. Times 12 months equals 23,040 baht a year.  

Some of the VTs have a fee per condo rather than by M², something like 500-1000 baht a month, so a studio pays the same as a huge one, I think VT2 and VT6 work on that basis, not sure about the others, obviously double units pay double

[ChipButty]

Here in Phuket the re sale value of condos has not moved in the last 5 years, renting has been busy over the last 18 months, these projects keep on going up I guess the clocks ticking, 

I know of one 2 bed condo when new was 12 million baht I saw it advertised for sale at 9 million baht and they are nice units good construction on a well run project with 4 pools, I own a couple of 1 bedroom apartments in the same block it has been a good rental unit for the last 5 years if I was to sell I would be lucky to get my money back, seems like a few are for sale and they are hovering around the original sale price from 5 years ago, 

[GinBoy2]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:42 PM, bbko said:

When the buyers dry up so will the construction.

Well that hasn't been the history of condo construction.

 

They continue to build despite horrific vacancy rates.

 

It defies normal economic logic, but I've long since given up trying to understand the Thai property market

[JimTripper]

 

18 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well that hasn't been the history of condo construction.

 

They continue to build despite horrific vacancy rates.

 

It defies normal economic logic, but I've long since given up trying to understand the Thai property market

Maybe has something to do with the financing and not the unit sales???

 

The profit could all be in the loan monies received. Big infusion of capital then the building is made of much cheaper materials then stated and the unit sale money is secondary. So delays don’t matter much either, or the financing money runs out or is used for other things before the project is completed.

[newnative]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:40 PM, georgegeorgia said:

A lot of new condos still being built and I must say I'm very tempted to buy a studio or 1 bedroom for the future.

 

I liked the Arcadia beach resort condominiums in jomtien ( well on the way to jomtien) I can't remember exactly where it is but I stayed there a few nights and enjoyed it 

 

Does anyone live in Arcadia beach resort condos ( it's no where near the beach by the way)

 

But anyway the more I thought about it ,I couldn't live in a 1 bedroom 26sqm room and then there was tourist visitors with screaming kids by the pool to put up with.

 

The thing is ,those type will be hard to rent out to people if I needed money as a landlord  and no resale value really 

 

Some of these all completely same look inside ,no difference ranged from 1 million to 1.8 million.,I guess depending on floor 

 

 

There is going to be too many condo going up ,the question is why ?

 

Do you think Pattaya / jomtien needs all these in the future?

     Legitimate property developers continue to build condos in Pattaya because they are able to find buyers for their product.  It's really just that simple.  I've used this example before.  Riviera Group built Riviera Wong Amat and found buyers for its product.  From Riviera Wong Amat they progressed to Riviera Jomtien, Riviera Monaco, Riviera Ocean Drive, and Copacabana.  Had there been no buyers at Riviera Wong Amat, I doubt the other projects would have been built.  

    You can see similar examples with other developers building multiple projects, such as Sansiri, Lumpini, and Raimon Land.  Developers study the market and will sometimes switch gears.   Supalai built, I believe, just one highrise condo project in Pattaya, Supalai Mare, and then segued to building houses on the Darkside.  Pattaya continues to grow but I think the number of large, new condo projects has slackened a bit.

    Question.  If you believe, as you state, that condos bought for investment will have, in your words, 'no resale value really', why are you thinking about such an investment?   If that's your thinking, you might be better off just renting and investing your money in something else.  

   Despite the occasional posters who proclaim that their condo has lost half its value, has lost ALL its value, cannot be given away, cannot find a buyer at any price, etc. , etc., I think you know that is not actually the reality in most cases.  

    Suppose you spend 1.5 million for a Pattaya condo.  That's about $43,000 at today's exchange rate.  About the average price of a new car.   Suppose, in 10 years, that it has, worse case, actually lost half its value.  If you've been able to steadily rent it out, you'll have 10 years of rent to help offset the loss in value.  If you've lived in it, you've saved 10 years of rent.  Even if it is now valued at only half--unlikely--you still have a roof over your head that you own free and clear, come what may.  What's that now 10-year old car worth and would you be happy living in it, come what may?

     My partner and I have bought and sold 2 condos in Rayong and 16 in Pattaya, some studios, some 1 to 3 bedrooms.  None lost any value, all sold at a profit, although some of the profits on the studios were small.  All were condos with a seaview, a key point, I think.  

     In your shoes, I would also look for a seaview condo.  I believe they hold their value and are easier to sell--right off the bat you've eliminated all the condos competing on the market that don't have a seaview.  If you bump your budget up a bit, you could possibly get a 32 sqm seaview condo at Lumpini Park Beach for under 2MB.  Not very big, but a good use of space with a nice-size balcony, reasonable condo fee, beachfront, and on the baht bus line. 

     Up the beach, I think you could get into a 48 sqm studio with a bit of a seaview at VT5D, possibly 5C, for around 2.5MB.  We renovated 4 of these on higher floors with better seaviews and sold them about 9 or 10 years ago for around 3.25-3.5MB.   If condos lose half their value, as some pundits say, these seaview VT5 condos should now be around 1.6MB but that doesn't seem to be the case, although there are a couple low floor units listed on Hipflat for around 2.2MB.  Short on amenities--just a pool--but good, popular location and low condo fee.  My partner and I lived in 48 sqm units at VT3, 5, and 7 for various periods and found we had enough space.  The very large balconies are an extra, outdoor room.

     If you go with one of the 'theme park' projects, I would look around and find the one that suits you best with location, price, and condo size variety.  Arcadia seems to be limited with 1 bedroom condo sizes--most just around 25-27sqm.  Atlantis, on the other hand, has 1 bedrooms in the 35 to 42sqm range.  A number of these resorts to choose from in Jomtien.  If a lot of short-term, noisy, tourist-type renters bother you--as they do me--you might look for a project that has more long-term type renters.

   One thing my partner and I always kept in mind, even when we were strictly buying a condo as an investment to rent out, we never bought anything we would not personally be ok living in, if we had to.  If 26 sqm is too small for you, it's likely going to be too small for most long-term renters, as well.  And, I think your aim would be long-term renters rather than all the hassle and work of dealing with short-term tenants.  Maybe consider looking for something a bit bigger that gives you flexibility to live in it, yourself, at some points, and rent it out at other points.

     The great thing about Pattaya is the terrific choice of housing at all price points and in a number of neighborhoods--from south Jomtien to Wong Amat.  I would urge you to take your time, not rush into anything, and do lots of looking--it's a good way to educate yourself on pricing and all that is available.  Good luck!

    

       

    

   

[newnative]

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Some of the VTs have a fee per condo rather than by M², something like 500-1000 baht a month, so a studio pays the same as a huge one, I think VT2 and VT6 work on that basis, not sure about the others, obviously double units pay double

    VT3 used to have that system when we first owned there--I think it was a flat rate of 6000 baht a year per unit. Then it switched to a baht per sqm system, I believe 12 baht when we were there years ago.  I think some of the other newer VTs also switched.

[save the frogs]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

Good luck!

will all that experience you have, you could set up a real estate agency to advise foreigners. 

[JimTripper]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

     Legitimate property developers continue to build condos in Pattaya because they are able to find buyers for their product.  It's really just that simple.  I've used this example before.  Riviera Group built Riviera Wong Amat and found buyers for its product.  From Riviera Wong Amat they progressed to Riviera Jomtien, Riviera Monaco, Riviera Ocean Drive, and Copacabana.  Had there been no buyers at Riviera Wong Amat, I doubt the other projects would have been built.  

    You can see similar examples with other developers building multiple projects, such as Sansiri, Lumpini, and Raimon Land.  Developers study the market and will sometimes switch gears.   Supalai built, I believe, just one highrise condo project in Pattaya, Supalai Mare, and then segued to building houses on the Darkside.  Pattaya continues to grow but I think the number of large, new condo projects has slackened a bit.

    Question.  If you believe, as you state, that condos bought for investment will have, in your words, 'no resale value really', why are you thinking about such an investment?   If that's your thinking, you might be better off just renting and investing your money in something else.  

   Despite the occasional posters who proclaim that their condo has lost half its value, has lost ALL its value, cannot be given away, cannot find a buyer at any price, etc. , etc., I think you know that is not actually the reality in most cases.  

    Suppose you spend 1.5 million for a Pattaya condo.  That's about $43,000 at today's exchange rate.  About the average price of a new car.   Suppose, in 10 years, that it has, worse case, actually lost half its value.  If you've been able to steadily rent it out, you'll have 10 years of rent to help offset the loss in value.  If you've lived in it, you've saved 10 years of rent.  Even if it is now valued at only half--unlikely--you still have a roof over your head that you own free and clear, come what may.  What's that now 10-year old car worth and would you be happy living in it, come what may?

     My partner and I have bought and sold 2 condos in Rayong and 16 in Pattaya, some studios, some 1 to 3 bedrooms.  None lost any value, all sold at a profit, although some of the profits on the studios were small.  All were condos with a seaview, a key point, I think.  

     In your shoes, I would also look for a seaview condo.  I believe they hold their value and are easier to sell--right off the bat you've eliminated all the condos competing on the market that don't have a seaview.  If you bump your budget up a bit, you could possibly get a 32 sqm seaview condo at Lumpini Park Beach for under 2MB.  Not very big, but a good use of space with a nice-size balcony, reasonable condo fee, beachfront, and on the baht bus line. 

     Up the beach, I think you could get into a 48 sqm studio with a bit of a seaview at VT5D, possibly 5C, for around 2.5MB.  We renovated 4 of these on higher floors with better seaviews and sold them about 9 or 10 years ago for around 3.25-3.5MB.   If condos lose half their value, as some pundits say, these seaview VT5 condos should now be around 1.6MB but that doesn't seem to be the case, although there are a couple low floor units listed on Hipflat for around 2.2MB.  Short on amenities--just a pool--but good, popular location and low condo fee.  My partner and I lived in 48 sqm units at VT3, 5, and 7 for various periods and found we had enough space.  The very large balconies are an extra, outdoor room.

     If you go with one of the 'theme park' projects, I would look around and find the one that suits you best with location, price, and condo size variety.  Arcadia seems to be limited with 1 bedroom condo sizes--most just around 25-27sqm.  Atlantis, on the other hand, has 1 bedrooms in the 35 to 42sqm range.  A number of these resorts to choose from in Jomtien.  If a lot of short-term, noisy, tourist-type renters bother you--as they do me--you might look for a project that has more long-term type renters.

   One thing my partner and I always kept in mind, even when we were strictly buying a condo as an investment to rent out, we never bought anything we would not personally be ok living in, if we had to.  If 26 sqm is too small for you, it's likely going to be too small for most long-term renters, as well.  And, I think your aim would be long-term renters rather than all the hassle and work of dealing with short-term tenants.  Maybe consider looking for something a bit bigger that gives you flexibility to live in it, yourself, at some points, and rent it out at other points.

     The great thing about Pattaya is the terrific choice of housing at all price points and in a number of neighborhoods--from south Jomtien to Wong Amat.  I would urge you to take your time, not rush into anything, and do lots of looking--it's a good way to educate yourself on pricing and all that is available.  Good luck!

    

       

    

   

You’re assuming the property value always goes up. I don’t think that’s the case. Real estate goes in cycles and you don’t want to be in a downturn. It’s an illiquid asset and hard to sell and get out if things go bad. You end up chasing the market down.

Edited August 6, 2023 by JimTripper

[billaaa777]

View Talay 5 condo fees are 7,200 per year for a 48 SM condo.

[Irish star]

Why would you buy a shoebox , I air b one time and every time I moved I had to ask gf to slide over or move so I could get by , and you will never sell it , if you buy a condo for 10 million you would have a chance at resale anything under that amount Good Luck 

[ChipButty]

23 minutes ago, Irish star said:

Why would you buy a shoebox , I air b one time and every time I moved I had to ask gf to slide over or move so I could get by , and you will never sell it , if you buy a condo for 10 million you would have a chance at resale anything under that amount Good Luck 

even that is debatable, I know of a unit 2 bed was 12 million 5 years ago it's on the market now for 9 million and it's in good condition and a good project

[newnative]

4 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

You’re assuming the property value always goes up. I don’t think that’s the case. Real estate goes in cycles and you don’t want to be in a downturn. It’s an illiquid asset and hard to sell and get out if things go bad. You end up chasing the market down.

     Apologies for the length--short is not my forte.  No, I'm not assuming property values always go up.  I've never said that, nor do I believe that.  With many projects in Thailand, you'll be happy if they maintain their value, or don't decrease much.  We've had a poster on this thread mention that with his rental condo in Phuket, that he has owned for 5 years, he would be lucky to get back what he paid for it.  But, note he didn't say he would be lucky to get back half of what he paid for it--and he's, hopefully, had some rental income from it. 

     I've relayed some of my experiences and said that buying wisely is important, doing your homework is important, finding a good deal is important, and taking your time is important.  Most of the condos my partner and I have bought have been to live in, and I think buying to live in long-term makes the most sense with condo buying in Thailand, if one prefers to own their space rather than rent.

     I've also said that timing can be important, as well.  In a number of cases, we sold at the right time.  For example, from 2011 to around 2014, we bought (not at the same time) 6 empty 48 sqm foreign quota studio shells at VT3, 5C, 5D, and 7.  We finished and furnished them, lived in some of them, and sold each at a profit.  At that time period, VT was a big player in Pattaya, with competition just starting to develop.  (small pun)  VT condos were easy to sell then at a profit.

     Not long ago, I saw one of our VT seaview studios back up for sale on Hipflat.  We had sold it for around 3.25MB-3.5MB and it was now for sale for 2.85MB.  Our buyer had been a Russian investor so he had about 10 years of rental income during a period when VTs rented easily.  So, he made some money with the condo but he was now selling for less than what he paid for it.   Hipflat still has higher floor VT5 seaview studios listed for 3 to 3.5MB so perhaps the Russian needed a quick sale.

     The last condo I bought as a residence in the US was a foreclosure in 2008.  Paid $170,000 for a condo that had last sold for over $300,000 in the real estate frenzy.  Thought I had gotten a bargain.  Yaa me.  Little did I know that the condo would drop a further $10,000 in value, to $160,000, after I bought it.  Boo me. 

    In 2010, I decided to move to Thailand.  The market had not improved much, so if I had sold the condo then, I would have lost money.  Instead of selling, I rented it out, sometimes a good option instead of selling at a loss.  In 2014, I needed some money and the market had recovered enough for me to sell the condo at a $10,000 profit.  Pat on the back, good job, dodged a bullet.  Timing.  Fast-forward to 2023, Zillow tells me the condo is now worth $257,400.  Smack on the head, idiot for selling.  Also timing, bad.

    Just some illustrations that real estate has ups and downs.  Like most investments, there are risks involved in buying.  I know and accept that going in, that I might lose money.  I like to own, not rent, so I take the risk--life is short.  If one is happy living in a rental property, with no property worries, with the freedom to move around and not be tied down, rent, instead--bargains abound here.   Certainly renting is a good option if you are likely to be here for just a short time or your length of stay is uncertain.   Owning pays off more long-term--with both the rent savings and the accumulated joys of owning your space and putting your stamp on it.  

    I'll circle back to the original VT studio that we bought in 2011.  Paid about 2.2MB for the empty shell, if I recall, and spent about 400,000 baht to fix it up.  Investment of about 2.6MB.  Had we not sold it, and lived there instead since 2011, we would have saved about 12 years of rent payments.  12 years of saved rent payments at 20,000 baht a month for rent ( I think about average for nice VT3 and 5  seaview studios during most of that period) equals a rent savings of 2,880,000 baht.  The rent savings would have more than paid for the condo.   So, essentially a free condo rather than 12 years of rent money thrown out the window--and a roof over your head that you still own.  Not a bad deal, in my opinion, although many would rather rent in Thailand and invest that 2.6MB in other investments--also good.  Different strokes. . .

     

[whereyougo]

On 8/5/2023 at 1:11 PM, Pattaya57 said:

You are talking a 1.0 to 1.8 million condo and then complain they're only 26 sqm and very basic? What do you expect in any country for only US$30k

 

Go look at a real condo for 5-6 million baht, that'll get you a very nice 100sqm 2 bedroom condo 

This. If you can't afford this then rent. 25 sqm will get old really quick and it's no way to live