Food Hygeine

[CharlieH]

In the home I've never eaten anything warmed up or recycled etc. Meals are prepared  fresh each time and any left overs go in the dogs ! ????

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Lucky Bones said:

Good question.

Yeah, I used to fridge everything but the village family just dragged it all out again. Wifey would give me the "stupid falang" look and put a cover over the food.

I gave up eventually.

I join them now in leaving "most" foods out & haven't had a dose of food poison for as long as my ever diminishing memory recalls.

Guessing our bods just acclimatise?

 

Are you suggesting that you don't do similar to the wife now, or that you get crook at times?????????

 

My Thai son and his Thai wife, over about 3 years bought 3 fridges and set them up on his wife's family farm which was well established with good construction farm buildings, nice house.

 

Each time they 'installed a fridge' they got comments like 'make sure you leave some money to pay for the electricity'.

 

Then each fridge had been dissonnected and the fridges used as dry food / clothing cupboards. Then over time all 3 disappeared (discovered later sold).

 

The only time just one was used as a fridge was when my sons wifes' sister got married. Son and his wife bought about bottles of cheap champage and a case of SPY, all put in one of he fridges and the fridge plugged. Son put several 'bungey' electic ropes areound the fridge and sealed the knot with something like sealing wax.

 

Next morning, about 08:00 son and his wife went to check:

 

- Ropes had been cut and left on the ground

- Drinks and drinks gone (found weeks later at a farm 1 km away, used as a wardrobe).

 

Leftover cooked food left on a table under the main house with a plastic cover. Most eaten within I guess 4 or 5 hours. Nobody ever got sick.

[Lucky Bones]

3 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Not to mention in restaurants where one never know whats going on behind the scenes or how long the food is out or even if the food handler has washed his hands after taking his big D... ?  However our bodies or metabolisms,  can tend to be stronger then we think but I still would not provoke the devil mainly when abroad and always remember the magic mantra when travelling...

 

"if you can't peel it, cook it or boil it....forget it"......with this, small chances in having to spend the rest of the stay on the loo.

Rule #:?      Never send your (un-cooked) meal back to the kitchen.

It won't end well.????????

[dingdongrb]

17 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

In the home I've never eaten anything warmed up or recycled etc. Meals are prepared  fresh each time and any left overs go in the dogs ! ????

Not sure what cuisine you fix at home but I'm not about to feed a half pan of lasagna or other great dishes to the dog. Besides I think that dishes like Lasagna, Beef Stroganoff, and Chicken Alfredo are better on the second go-around. 

[chickenslegs]

5 minutes ago, dingdongrb said:

Besides I think that dishes like Lasagna, Beef Stroganoff, and Chicken Alfredo are better on the second go-around.

+1

Same for most pasta dishes, and especially Christmas dinners leftovers.

Bubble and Squeak ... Yummy

https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/potato-recipes/bubble-squeak/

[Lucky Bones]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

My Thai son and his Thai wife, over about 3 years bought 3 fridges and set them up on his wife's family farm which was well established with good construction farm buildings, nice house.

 

Each time they 'installed a fridge' they got comments like 'make sure you leave some money to pay for the electricity'.

 

Then each fridge had been dissonnected and the fridges used as dry food / clothing cupboards. Then over time all 3 disappeared (discovered later sold).

 

The only time just one was used as a fridge was when my sons wifes' sister got married. Son and his wife bought about bottles of cheap champage and a case of SPY, all put in one of he fridges and the fridge plugged. Son put several 'bungey' electic ropes areound the fridge and sealed the knot with something like sealing wax.

 

Next morning, about 08:00 son and his wife went to check:

 

- Ropes had been cut and left on the ground

- Drinks and drinks gone (found weeks later at a farm 1 km away, used as a wardrobe).

 

Leftover cooked food left on a table under the main house with a plastic cover. Most eaten within I guess 4 or 5 hours. Nobody ever got sick.

Wow. I read your comment twice.

Thought....this Scorecard Bloke knows me and my life experiences too well!

Excellent comment which I so relate to.

Your comment made my 10 + year village experiences so much more acceptable to me.

(and no, still not getting sick.)

cheers.????????

 

[geisha]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

I went to India several times for consulting work, got severe diarrhea every time. and all meals at the 5 star hotel dining room or at the executive dining room at the client HQs.

 

My consulting company had prepared packs of several diarrhea and other medicines, incl. water purification tablets, a pack was given to all staff going to India.  

 

My western colleague from our Singapore office also get severe diarrhea every time. On one occasion he spoke to the guest relations lady at the 5 star hotel. She instantly insisted that the hotel kitchen and food prep. was hygienic to world standards, then got angry syaing she was insulted.

 

After that we took lots of canned food, big variety and can opener and ate in our rooms direct from cans.

 

Not the best way to eat and no hot food but it solved the diarrhea problem.  

When food is prepared with dirty hands ( ugh!)  staphylococcal poisoning can be worse than anything . I also had a very bad poisoning in India, and I was only eating vegetables !  It was awful, I passed out 24 hrs and high fever. Took 3 days to clear up:and a doctor. Luckily I was also in a 5 star and they were really helpful.   For the rest of my long stay we had a Villa with staff who had always worked for foreigners , so the food was healthy.  Then had food poisoning in Patong , Italian restaurant, another one that knocked me out. It’s not nice. 

[still kicking]

3 minutes ago, geisha said:

When food is prepared with dirty hands ( ugh!)  staphylococcal poisoning can be worse than anything . I also had a very bad poisoning in India, and I was only eating vegetables !  It was awful, I passed out 24 hrs and high fever. Took 3 days to clear up:and a doctor. Luckily I was also in a 5 star and they were really helpful.   For the rest of my long stay we had a Villa with staff who had always worked for foreigners , so the food was healthy.  Then had food poisoning in Patong , Italian restaurant, another one that knocked me out. It’s not nice. 

I know how you feel I just had food poisoning in Pattaya and that was in a Swiss restaurant, and it was just a simple meal just a sausage and some fries, the worst part about that I I had to fly out to Australia at the same day. Spend more time in the airplane toilet than in my seat.

[swm59nj]

I have known Thai people that have gotten food poisoning. So they do get food poisoning and it is quite common. Some severe. 
People from other countries are effected more easily.  Because their digestive system is not accustomed to the local bacteria. 

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, scorecard said:

I went to India several times for consulting work, got severe diarrhea every time. and all meals at the 5 star hotel dining room or at the executive dining room at the client HQs.

 

My consulting company had prepared packs of several diarrhea and other medicines, incl. water purification tablets, a pack was given to all staff going to India.  

 

My western colleague from our Singapore office also get severe diarrhea every time. On one occasion he spoke to the guest relations lady at the 5 star hotel. She instantly insisted that the hotel kitchen and food prep. was hygienic to world standards, then got angry syaing she was insulted.

 

After that we took lots of canned food, big variety and can opener and ate in our rooms direct from cans.

 

Not the best way to eat and no hot food but it solved the diarrhea problem.  

India is well known for gastric problems. The term 'Delhi belly" was coined for a reason.

 

 

[BoganInParasite]

Took me 5+ years to train my wife on how to treat/store cooked or raw foods...and she was a highly trained and experienced nurse. But I also bent a little in the last five years as I observed very few Thais seemingly getting sick from the practices I opposed. In fact up here is Pua there are far more stories of Thais getting sick (parasites) from eating raw meats of various descriptions than food poisoning. Some of it results are the stuff of nightmares and funerals.

[Surasak]

13 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You also may have noticed flies don't go on food here, street food vendors don't have a fly problem, i think there's some deal going on

Next time you visit street food vendor, have a look to see if there is any Mint or Parsley hanging up. Flies can't stand the stuff.

[MPoll]

I get food poisoning more often here than in the US but still not very often. Almost every time I've gotten sick in Thailand it was from a brick & mortar restaurant often in a tourist zone. Never from street food. Once here at home when my wife's uncle prepared a duck dinner. And it is not just about westerners not being accustom to Thai bacteria. My wife gets it too on occasion. 

 

And I would say American food standards are way overblown. 

 

On another note - I keep plenty of frozen dishes in my freezer. My wife doesn't understand this practice and turns her nose up at it. When I make a pot of Mexican chili there is always 7-8 servings and it has to go into the freezer.

Edited August 10, 2023 by MPoll

[dingdongrb]

1 hour ago, MPoll said:

And I would say American food standards are way overblown. 

 

Why? Because in the USA stores we don't have open bins of meat laying about so everyone can touch it all or sneeze all over it?

 

I remember being at a Makro a few years back and while in the veggie & fruit section there was a girl enticing customers to try a sample of cut cantaloupe pieces. While her back was turned from the sample tray of cut pieces a small child (perhaps 4 or 5 years old) started touching and playing with all those sample pieces. After seeing that I was wondering why there was a need for the toothpicks on the tray.

 

I won't mention where but I once bought some food (if I recall it was a pork and rice dish) at a popular food court. I still have a pic somewhere of a chunk of glass I found in the food. It wasn't a sharp jagged pieced but a chunk about the size of a 25 satang coin looking like it might have come from a soda bottle or such.

 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, dingdongrb said:

Why? Because in the USA stores we don't have open bins of meat laying about so everyone can touch it all or sneeze all over it

Not an issue, unless you don't plan on cooking it, and still would be the least of your concerns.

 

Everything being squeaky clean is not good for your immune system.  Every infection strengthens it ... or kills you ????

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, still kicking said:

I know how you feel I just had food poisoning in Pattaya and that was in a Swiss restaurant, and it was just a simple meal just a sausage and some fries, the worst part about that I I had to fly out to Australia at the same day. Spend more time in the airplane toilet than in my seat.

Ouch. Were you popular with the hosties?

[dingdongrb]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not an issue, unless you don't plan on cooking it, and still would be the least of your concerns.

 

Everything being squeaky clean is not good for your immune system.  Every infection strengthens it ... or kills you ????

I only mentioned meat..... but that's ok if you want to cook the bread and donuts you want to buy too.....  ????

 

I do understand what you state but why do you get vaccinations? Just let your body work it out......  LOL

[MPoll]

16 minutes ago, dingdongrb said:

Why? Because in the USA stores we don't have open bins of meat laying about so everyone can touch it all or sneeze all over it?

 

I remember being at a Makro a few years back and while in the veggie & fruit section there was a girl enticing customers to try a sample of cut cantaloupe pieces. While her back was turned from the sample tray of cut pieces a small child (perhaps 4 or 5 years old) started touching and playing with all those sample pieces. After seeing that I was wondering why there was a need for the toothpicks on the tray.

 

I won't mention where but I once bought some food (if I recall it was a pork and rice dish) at a popular food court. I still have a pic somewhere of a chunk of glass I found in the food. It wasn't a sharp jagged pieced but a chunk about the size of a 25 satang coin looking like it might have come from a soda bottle or such.

 

Because I just don't see the food borne illnesses in myself, my family, my friends, and in general around Thailand. The US takes a 0.1% problem and reduces it to a 0.01% problem. The whole egg refrigeration thing is absurd. The examples you cite may make you squeamish but, for me, they just don't constitute enough of a problem to reorder society around the US type of standard. I look at a lot what is done in Thailand and chalk it up to US "picnic standards". Americans do the same at outdoor events when it suits their purpose. Use your own judgement for your own consumption but I pretty quickly learned that I could ingest a lot of delicious foods here without any significant problem. 

[MPoll]

9 hours ago, still kicking said:

I know how you feel I just had food poisoning in Pattaya and that was in a Swiss restaurant, and it was just a simple meal just a sausage and some fries, the worst part about that I I had to fly out to Australia at the same day. Spend more time in the airplane toilet than in my seat.

My Thai wife and I were sitting at Five Star Bar on Beach road, Pattaya, and ordered some food which was prepared in the hotel next door. We both got sick that night. Which just goes to show that a hotel restaurant kitchen can serve up contaminated food and that Thais are not immune to it either.

[fredwiggy]

17 hours ago, KannikaP said:

When I did my Basic Food Hygiene course several years back, I was taught not to keep cooked food at room temperature, over 20C, but to put it in the fridge when it had cooled. And when re-heating to make sure it was well hot all the way through.

Here, my Mrs leaves dishes of food, hotdogs etc out on the kitchen table for over 24 hours, and rice, which is very susceptible to a dangerous bacteria, is re-warmed a few times over in the rice cooker.

Why do they never get food poisoning?

They do all the time. Rice should not be left out more than 2 hours. Refrigerated it will last a few days, or frozen if need be. Raw chicken sold here at stores will get bacteria very quickly, especially Salmonella. It should be stored at 40 degrees, like it is in the US, and wrapped in plastic. Cooking here, using hot oil and boiling, does reduce or eliminate a lot of bacteria, but the chicken should be cut into small pieces. I've gotten the runs here way more than back home in America, and I'm sure leaving food out, as I've seen in many homes, is the culprit. Koi Pla, raw fish with spices, kills many in Thailand every year, up to 20,000 it's said. I know personally of two farangs wives who died from liver disease from eating it. People don't usually discuss their bathroom habits with anyone besides their doctor and maybe a close relative, so no one has any idea how many suffer from food borne illnesses.

Edited August 10, 2023 by fredwiggy

[Gottfrid]

16 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Did YOU train her?

I don´t think he needed. Some of us are just lucky and found one that can understand such things all by themselves. ???? 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Gottfrid

[ChipButty]

the worst cases of food poisoning  i have ever had have come from 5 star hotels, once was staying in the Fort Aguada in Goa part of the Taj group of hotels in India, the guy in the restaurant told me don't eat seafood in here, 

[Liverpool Lou]

11 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

13 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Gawd...I don't need the "'i' before 'e'" rule explaining.   

From my post that you commented on...

"That's weird, sounds foreign to me browsing this leisurely, albeit from a height.   I'll seize this opportunity to get a caffeine fix for myself and the old heifer (the wife)". 

Expand  

Does this help?

No, it does not help as I do not need any help.  I understand the grammatical "rule", I wasn't querying it nor saying that it was wrong (even though it is).   

 

If you read my comment that has confused some posters you will see that the content is nonsense but just uses as many "e" before "i" words as I could quickly put together in a paragraph.   It's called facetiousness.

[ChipButty]

my wife cooks fresh food almost everyday and she will buy it everyday nothing is lying around but it did take me a while to get her to understand using a freezer and the fridge, once it's defrosted you cant put it back, 

 

my lunch today is fresh, a fresh packet of Mama noodles 

[Kwaibill]

I’ve had to do the “Somchai two-step” many times, especially the last couple of years. Mrs. Kwai does many of the above mentioned, but this was not a problem in years previous.

Possible contributions include removal of gall bladder, stroke, and concomitant changes/additions to my medicine routine and just plain age.

I do think I became “ adapted” after the first six months in SEAsea, but change is the rule in life.

Time to go heat a burger from 7 for lunch.????

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, dingdongrb said:

I do understand what you state but why do you get vaccinations? Just let your body work it out......  LOL

I don't, with exception to tetanus.

 

Note to self;  get tetanus booster, or not.

 

I don't buy thinks people have access to, touch/cough or sneeze on, if I can't wash it or cook before eating.  

 

Though pastries & such, behind the counter would be handled by staff anyway.

 

Trust my immune system for those things, with minimal exposure.

 

Another reason why I really don't do buffets.

Edited August 10, 2023 by KhunLA

[LukKrueng]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you need to train your mrs better.

I heard there are some good local wife trainers you could get to train your wife

[dingdongrb]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I don't, with exception to tetanus.

 

Note to self;  get tetanus booster, or not.

 

I don't buy thinks people have access to, touch/cough or sneeze on, if I can't wash it or cook before eating.  

 

Though pastries & such, behind the counter would be handled by staff anyway.

 

Trust my immune system for those things, with minimal exposure.

 

Another reason why I really don't do buffets.

I agree with the buffets. It was a buffet (at a popular US casino) where I obtained my only bout of food poisoning many years ago. And I'm surprised with all the places I eaten at and strange things I've eaten over the years living in Thailand and China that I haven't gotten ill again.

 

You've never been to a Dunkin Donuts or Mister Donut where it was 'help yourself'? Or at other places where French breads and other bakery items were in bags not completely closed?

 

......and to add, you never received a polio, measles, chickenpox or other vaccination? If memory serves me right I had to obtain a Yellow Fever vaccination many years ago (more than 30) when I first came to Thailand on a Business Visa.

 

[patman30]

On 8/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, KannikaP said:

make sure it was well hot all the way through

sounds like you passed with flying colours, ????‍♂️
75C is what you are suppsoed to reheat core to

 

On 8/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, KannikaP said:

Why do they never get food poisoning?

Surely you should remember from you BFH course how bateria grows and at what rates etc.
they don't get food poisoning because the bacteria has not had enough time to grow to dangerous levels
most foods especially once cooked will be fine for 1 day out in the open
BFH courses are aimed at professionals, in the UK a chef is personally liable, with hefty fines and even imprisonment upto 1 year
and of course the company they work for is liable,

hence BFH is based on what is always safe especially when working with other people who have also handled the food you may now be liable for when serving
in practice you do not need be so strict, which is why many many restuarants that do not follow BFH standards are not killing people by the dozen daily
reheating a few times is fine if food is fresh, same goes for refreezing,  but this is not advised/permitted in commercial kitchens to avoid any confusion.

One great thing about Thailand, is the turnover
the food on street carts for example is usually turned over quickly as they dont prepare more than they can sell (of course not everyone, always)
advice for eating out
do not eat in very quiet places that have few customers
order the popular dish, never the dish that is rarely ordered
if really worried have something deep fried, as even spores die at ~140C

you can also increase your tolerance to bacteria in foods,
i know people who do this with raw chicken

Edited August 10, 2023 by patman30

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

......and to add, you never received a polio, measles, chickenpox or other vaccination? If memory serves me right I had to obtain a Yellow Fever vaccination many years ago (more than 30) when I first came to Thailand on a Business Visa.

Just the ones as an infant, and nothing like the amount they give today.  Hep B & covid to an infant, that's just nuts.

 

Ones I got as an infant, about as krap as most vaccines, as got measles, mumps & chicken pox, as almost everyone did in the hood as kids.  Yearly flu vaccines are a joke, and covid, that not even a vaccine IMHO ... nuff said

 

On Topic ... twice here, sick from food.  Once at farang managed restaurants, chicken improperly cook, damn raw in center.  As soon as I bit into that, saw it, knew it was going to be coming back up later on.   Other time was a buffet, you cook.  Made the mistake of eating something coming out of the kitchen, freshly restocking, and yet, barely warm.   Damn, knew it was a mistake as soon as I ate it.  Twice in 20+ yrs, so not too bad.

 

I avoid most display items, not all, but as cautious as one can be, but do enjoy eating.  Chain donuts suck, so no worries there.  Luck & good immune system, so far so good.