Retirement Visa using the 65,000 Income method ?

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Must you show a statement with 24 months of monthly transfers to demonstrate that you qualified the previous year based on both income and money in the bank? Can Immigration again deny you based on the fact that you qualified the previous year via money in the bank?

I think for the 1st Extension based on Income he would need to show that he met the conditions for his previous extension as well as meeting the conditions to do his new extension which by the sounds of it he’s not going to be in a position to do so needs to use an Agent to get an Extension based on him doing 12 months transfers. 

 

Once he’s got the extension based on Income, there are no requirements other than to maintain the transfers each month so after another 12 months of extensions he should be good to do it himself. 
 

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I think for the 1st Extension based on Income he would need to show that he met the conditions for his previous extension as well as meeting the conditions to do his new extension which by the sounds of it he’s not going to be in a position to do so needs to use an Agent to get an Extension based on him doing 12 months transfers. 

 

Once he’s got the extension based on Income, there are no requirements other than to maintain the transfers each month so after another 12 months of extensions he should be good to do it himself. 

The question I have is: if you qualify using both money in the bank and income, how does Immigration decide which qualification has been used for the last extension? How does your extension stamp differ depending on whether you previously qualified on income or money in the bank? I fully accept that, in practice, the officials may not approach this objectively, but compliance with the previous extension is achieved by either  65k+ baht transfer for every month during the term of the last extension; or maintaining the necessary balances in the bank. You do not need to do both. I would even argue that you ought logically to be able to change in the middle between two extensions, reducing the amount in the bank as soon you begin depositing 65k+ baht per month (though I would not expect any office to accept this in practice).

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The question I have is: if you qualify using both money in the bank and income, how does Immigration decide which qualification has been used for the last extension? How does your extension stamp differ depending on whether you previously qualified on income or money in the bank? I fully accept that, in practice, the officials may not approach this objectively, but compliance with the previous extension is achieved by either  65k+ baht transfer for every month during the term of the last extension; or maintaining the necessary balances in the bank. You do not need to do both.

Been there - done that.  I extend based on income but have 800k in the associated bank account - so have to make intention known each time that extension is based on income - they then check/underline/initial each of the monthly deposits and use that to confirm method was income.  They keep all paperwork and can obtain within minutes when doing next extension to confirm method used (as they had to do that this year as I took few hundred k out of account 2 months after last extension - so at first glance officer believed I was in violation until viewing last years paperwork).  

[Mike Teavee]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The question I have is: if you qualify using both money in the bank and income, how does Immigration decide which qualification has been used for the last extension?

I’m assuming by the paperwork that was used to support the extension…

 

12 Month statement showing 65K pm…. “Income”

 

Bank Statement showing 800K, “Deposit”

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I’m assuming by the paperwork that was used to support the extension…

 

12 Month statement showing 65K pm…. “Income”

 

Bank Statement showing 800K, “Deposit”

So, you would need to submit the bank statement to show you qualified for the last extension, thus (in spite of the fact that you could have qualified based on income if able to use that to qualify) you would again need to use money in the bank the next time. Or, do you annotate the application in some way to state that, although forced to show proof of money in the bank this time, yo will be using income next time? Do you need to show the 12-month statement of 65k baht transfers along with the 800k deposit but, perhaps, stamp the 800k deposit statement "not for this extension"? If so, make sure you keep a copy of all this, as I doubt Immigration can easily lay their hands on it at the time of your next extension. They will usually just look at your extension stamp and want to see if you qualify for the next one based on income or money in the bank.

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If so, make sure you keep a copy of all this, as I doubt Immigration can easily lay their hands on it at the time of your next extension. They will usually just look at your extension stamp and want to see if you qualify for the next one based on income or money in the bank.

For CW the paperwork is easily available as I posted above.  In my case ran into lunch hour but on return at 1300 my new extension was in passport as they processed during lunch.  

[Mike Teavee]

36 minutes ago, BritTim said:

So, you would need to submit the bank statement to show you qualified for the last extension, thus (in spite of the fact that you could have qualified based on income if able to use that to qualify) you would again need to use money in the bank the next time. Or, do you annotate the application in some way to state that, although forced to show proof of money in the bank this time, yo will be using income next time? Do you need to show the 12-month statement of 65k baht transfers along with the 800k deposit but, perhaps, stamp the 800k deposit statement "not for this extension"? If so, make sure you keep a copy of all this, as I doubt Immigration can easily lay their hands on it at the time of your next extension. They will usually just look at your extension stamp and want to see if you qualify for the next one based on income or money in the bank.

I'm not sure I understand your point but... 

 

Firstly, you haven't qualified for your last extension until you have (at least) kept 800K in the Bank for 3 months after it... Agreed?

 

But I think it goes way beyond that & If you do an extension based on money (800K) in the bank then I think they will check to see you've met the conditions of that for the full year so need to have maintained (at least) 800K in the bank 3 months after, 400K for 7 months after that, I don't know whether they will insist on the final 2 months having 800K but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.  

 

So yes, I believe that if you want to switch to the Income method then you'll need to show both (800K & 65K pm) the 1st time, after that you should be ok with 65K 

 

No idea how you evidence between the 2 which is why I suggested he used an Agent for his 1st “Income” extension.... But if I was doing it myself I would have all the evidence of the 12 month transfers in 1 hand & if challenged, proof that I met the previous money in the bank extension in the other. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Firstly, you haven't qualified for your last extension until you have (at least) kept 800K in the Bank for 3 months after it... Agreed?

That can be validly argued if your last extension was based on money in the bank. They want to be sure that the 800k baht was your money, and not from some kind of short-term loan. it is certainly more valid than saying you must qualify based on money in the bank for the entire year while simultaneously qualifying based on income That said, I would still say that qualifying by 12 consecutive monthly deposits from abroad meets the cumulative 800k requirement for an extension based on income. In the past, when income letters from the embassy were accepted, I do not recall them ever saying that they would not accept the income letter because you did not met the requirement for 800k baht in the bank.

 

11 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

So yes, I believe that if you want to switch to the Income method then you'll need to show both (800K & 65K pm) the 1st time, after that you should be ok with 65K 

So, do you believe that would now also be true if using an income letter from your embassy?

 

I think you may be correct on actual practice, but I think it is completely illogical. The intent of the current rules, I believe, is that you must qualify for an extension by showing you have met the requirements for your last extension, either by keeping the requisite bank balances, or by depositing a minimum level of income into your account from abroad every month during the term of the last extension. I do not think using money in the bank for one extension should prevent you from using income to qualify for the next one (though you must be able to show proof of retrospective income, not just a promise to do it going forward). Interesting enough, when monthly deposits were first introduced, you were allowed to qualify the first time based on only two or three monthly deposits as it was felt unreasonable to require 12 deposits when this was not previously necessary. Now, apparently, 24 months of transfers are required.

 

Similarly, I think if you have previously been using income, you should be able to switch to money in the bank by simply having 800k baht in the bank during the previous year. I do not think a failure to continue 65k+ deposits should disqualify you for the next extension as long as you qualify based on money in the bank.

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That can be validly argued if your last extension was based on money in the bank. They want to be sure that the 800k baht was your money, and not from some kind of short-term loan. it is certainly more valid than saying you must qualify based on money in the bank for the entire year while simultaneously qualifying based on income That said, I would still say that qualifying by 12 consecutive monthly deposits from abroad meets the cumulative 800k requirement for an extension based on income. In the past, when income letters from the embassy were accepted, I do not recall them ever saying that they would not accept the income letter because you did not met the requirement for 800k baht in the bank.

 

So, do you believe that would now also be true if using an income letter from your embassy?

 

I think you may be correct on actual practice, but I think it is completely illogical. The intent of the current rules, I believe, is that you must qualify for an extension by showing you have met the requirements for your last extension, either by keeping the requisite bank balances, or by depositing a minimum level of income into your account from abroad every month during the term of the last extension. I do not think using money in the bank for one extension should prevent you from using income to qualify for the next one (though you must be able to show proof of retrospective income, not just a promise to do it going forward). Interesting enough, when monthly deposits were first introduced, you were allowed to qualify the first time based on only two or three monthly deposits as it was felt unreasonable to require 12 deposits when this was not previously necessary. Now, apparently, 24 months of transfers are required.

 

Similarly, I think if you have previously been using income, you should be able to switch to money in the bank by simply having 800k baht in the bank during the previous year. I do not think a failure to continue 65k+ deposits should disqualify you for the next extension as long as you qualify based on money in the bank.

We'll agree to disagree... & I look forward to the day somebody comes along to say they used an Agent for the 800K in the bank & were able to switch to Income the next year & I'll be proven totally wrong.  I won't be holding my breath. 

 

Your last point about people previously Using Income then switching to "Money in the Bank" is not valid as the "Income" method is solely based on your previous 12 months transfers & has no requirements for future transfers, whereas the "Deposit" in the bank has rules for what needs to happen over the following (at least) 3 to 12 months. 

 

You could get an extension based on "Income", then do nothing until 2-3 months (Depending on IO) before your Extension was due, stick 800K in the bank & then follow the deposit rules... 

 

 

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Your last point about people previously Using Income then switching to "Money in the Bank" is not valid as the "Income" method is solely based on your previous 12 months transfers & has no requirements for future transfers, whereas the "Deposit" in the bank has rules for what needs to happen over the following (at least) 3 to 12 months. 

I do not see where in the Police Order for extensions where it says money in the bank is both retrospective and prospective, but income is based only on retrospective payments. I believe both are retrospective only. If this is not true, then a failure to maintain deposits later means that your current permission to stay becomes invalid, and you are on overstay. You should be fined when this is discovered, and blacklisted from Thailand if the overstay is more than 90 days. Of course, it is not true. The deposits in the bank are only used to qualify for your next extension (if you do not qualify instead based on income).

 

As you say, we are going to have to agree to disagree. We have had a polite discussion, and I think I understand your position, even though I disagree with it.

[SmokeandIce]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:27 AM, DrJack54 said:

 

I suggest new non O application showing 12 month transfers  with 12 month statement. 

Please be aware that some Thai immigrations will NOT issue a non O based on 12 months of THB 65,000.  They require either THB 800,000 in a Thai bank account or an Embassy letter (if uour country issues).  The THB 65,000 for 12 months is ok for a Non O extension but not a new Non O.  I had this issue at Chaeng Wattana.

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, SmokeandIce said:

The THB 65,000 for 12 months is ok for a Non O extension but not a new Non O.  I had this issue at Chaeng Wattana.

For your first extension were you able to show 12 month of transfers? 

[wwest5829]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:52 PM, bondjames007 said:

I am looking at applying for the Retirement Visa-O visa (Currently living in Thailand).

 

I will use the 65,000 a month Income for 12 months,  my monthly income will be paid into Thailand via Wise account.

 

Is this an issue ?  does the monthly transfers need to show that the income transfer came from an actual  overseas bank account ? 

I have used this method for over a decade. Wise takes the amount I tell them via an electronic funds transfer from my U.S. bank. On the Wise app, I check thevresaon for the funds is “for long term living expenses”. The funds are directly deposited in my Bangkok Bank account as FTT coming fro abroad. No problems.

[CMBob]

Interesting discussion regarding switching from obtaining extensions based on retirement using the 800k bank method to obtaining a subsequent extension based on the income (65k per month) method.  My comments do not relate to obtaining a Non-O in the first place or any issue using an agent.  It would seem that this is all that would be required:

(1)  You would have to show proof that you have complied with the requirements for the prior extension based on the 800k bank method.  Without confusing amounts, let's say the applicant can (if needed) show the entire 800k has been in the bank for the entire year prior to the new extension application based on income.

(2) Then there should be no problem in switching to the income method for the next (and subsequent) extension applications so long as you can show the necessary proofs that you've transferred 65k from abroad each month prior to the date of application for the new extension (whether doing this through the affidavit method if your country still does those or doing it through proof from your Thai bank).

 

Am wondering if Dr. Jack and/or BritTim believes this could (or should) work.

 

[DrJack54]

26 minutes ago, CMBob said:

 

Am wondering if Dr. Jack and/or BritTim believes this could (or should) work

I'm actually going to do this for next extension November.

I currently use money in bank method.

I leave 800k all yr round in dedicated bank account) 

 

So in November (newt extension) I will continue with the 800k in bank for Nov 2023 right through to my next extension Nov 2024.

 

I have just started 65k+ per month and will do that every month to Nov 2024..

 

At that point I can show CW immigration over 12+ monthly transfers. 

Also as back up I have the money in bank method covered.

Oz pp so no income letter form embassy available.

 

 Not relevant but my reason is that I want seamless access of money in bank  to my lovely partner without wills etc. 

 

EDIT: reading back over my post this is related to the OP as imo he cannot do the sort of plan I have outlined because he is using an agent.

That will be clear to immigration. 

BTW OP, where were your stamps issued

Edited August 14, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

Interesting discussion regarding switching from obtaining extensions based on retirement using the 800k bank method to obtaining a subsequent extension based on the income (65k per month) method.  My comments do not relate to obtaining a Non-O in the first place or any issue using an agent.  It would seem that this is all that would be required:

(1)  You would have to show proof that you have complied with the requirements for the prior extension based on the 800k bank method.  Without confusing amounts, let's say the applicant can (if needed) show the entire 800k has been in the bank for the entire year prior to the new extension application based on income.

(2) Then there should be no problem in switching to the income method for the next (and subsequent) extension applications so long as you can show the necessary proofs that you've transferred 65k from abroad each month prior to the date of application for the new extension (whether doing this through the affidavit method if your country still does those or doing it through proof from your Thai bank).

 

Am wondering if Dr. Jack and/or BritTim believes this could (or should) work.

Others are mostly in disagreement with my opinion on this, and Immigration may not applying the rules as I think they were intended.

 

My view is that, for any retirement extension after the first, you should be able to qualify for the next extension based on money in the bank or income. You qualify based on income, by having 12 monthly transfers from abroad or by using an income letter. To qualify based on money in the bank, you must have complied with minimum balances in your account since the previous extension.

 

The popular opinion is that when you previously qualified for an extension based on money in the bank, you must also qualify based on money in the bank at the time of the next extension. You cannot qualify based on income alone, but must meet the same requirements as if you could not qualify based on income. However, having qualified based on both money in the bank and income for one extension, you can then choose which (money in the bank or income) you want to use for the subsequent extension.

 

The written Police Order does not make sufficiently clear whether my logic or the common consensus is what was intended.

[1happykamper]

Geeeeez. So many answers. This is why I use an agent. These guys who insist that they stroll into immigration with their docs and leave 40 minutes later with their extension are living in la la land 555.

[Longwood50]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:52 PM, bondjames007 said:

will use the 65,000 a month Income for 12 months,  my monthly income will be paid into Thailand via Wise account.

I am from the USA and use that method. 

1. Your first issue will be opening a bank account.  Most banks will tell you that you need a long term visa in order to open an account.  I found a Bangkok Bank that would open one but I had to buy an accident insurance policy for one year as a condition.  I was told later that I could cancel the policy by calling the insurance company.  I didn't know that and don't know if that is true.  Your only other option is to use an agent to open an account for you if you can't open one yourself. 

2. You do have a possible alternative if you are from a country that still issues income affidavits.  If you are from one of those countries that still does, you can go to the local embassy or consulate give them whatever documentation they may or may not require and issue to you an affidavit of income.  As I remember, you had to first go to the embassy and obtain it, then take it to the Ministry of Foreign affairs the following day to get it legalized. 

3.  If you are not from a country that still does income affidavits you will need to put 800,000 baht in an account and have it remain there for I believe two months.  It could be three. 

4. You take your current visa to immigration and apply for a 90 day extension.  That gives your money time to age in the bank.  You "may" have luck getting the 90 day extension and then using that to open the bank account depending on the bank policy.  I know Kasikorn requires a certificate of residence in addition to a visa to open an account.  

5. 15 days before your extension runs out, you take your passport, bank book updated the day you are applying, and a letter from your bank attesting to your account and balance at the bank plus a bank statement. They will take your passport and when approved give it to you the following day. 

6. In the future, you use Wise and transfer your money into your Wise account.  You convert it same day, or use the automated transfer feature to convert when the baht to your currency level hits whatever threshold you have set.  After it converts you transfer it to your bank here in Thailand.  You "MUST USE THE LONG TERM STAY" as the reason for the transfer.  At Bankgok Bank it will show as a FTT foreign transfer in your bank book.  One caveat to that is if you fail to update your bank book regularly for some unexplained reason the bank will group your deposit with other transactions and just net the amount and you lose the FTT designation in the bank book. 

7. At the end of one year you make a copy of all of your bank book for the past year.  You then go to the bank and get a statement for at least 12 months preferably 13 months.  You then get the letter from the bank confirming your account.  In Chonburi they require the bank to prepare a letter showing the amount transfered each month  Such as in the example attached.  When I have shown them this letter, they don't even look at the statement or bank book copy.  However they will still require them. 

That along with your application, map to where you are residing, copies of your passport and 63 signatures or more on each and every document gets your renewal. 


 

[OJAS]

43 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

As I remember, you had to first go to the embassy and obtain it, then take it to the Ministry of Foreign affairs the following day to get it legalized. 

I was never required to have my British Embassy income confirmation letters notarised in this way.

[OJAS]

46 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

15 days before your extension runs out, you take your passport, bank book updated the day you are applying, and a letter from your bank attesting to your account and balance at the bank plus a bank statement. They will take your passport and when approved give it to you the following day. 

You can actually apply for a new extension of stay up to 30 days before your current permission to stay expires at most offices - and even up to 45 days beforehand at some (e.g. Chaengwattana and Chiang Mai). And retirement extensions are normally processed and issued on the spot at most offices, with no need to leave your passport with them overnight (Jomtien are the notable exception in that regard, though).

 

[DrJack54]

59 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

You take your current visa to immigration and apply for a 90 day extension.  That gives your money time to age in the bank.  You "may" have luck getting the 90 day extension and then using that to open the bank account depending on the bank policy

Many of your points are half right but in the main incorrect. 

 

Example the quoted text above.

You do not take your current visa to immigration and obtain a 90 day extension.

 

Having entered on either visa exempt or tourist visa you can attend immigration and obtain conversion to a non O retirement.

 

You need a Thai bank account in your name only to obtain the non O using TM87 form for conversion from visa exempt entry or TM86 for entry with tourist visa for conversion.

 

You require 800k in bank on day of application.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by DrJack54

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Having entered on either visa exempt or tourist visa you can attend immigration and obtain conversion to a non O retirement.

I beg to differ with you.  I had a tourist visa.  You can not go directly from a tourist visa to a non-o.  You have to have an extension and then wait until it is within 15 days of its expiration.  I know.  I did it.  

Also, yes you need to have the 800,000 baht on deposit and AGED prior to making the application for the extension.  

As I recall, I had to go to Bangkok and get an income verification letter presented for the 90 day extension.  I then had to go to Bangkok again for a second letter when I applied for the non-o.  

 

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

You can actually apply for a new extension of stay up to 30 days before your current permission to stay expires at most offices

As with most things in Thailand it always depends on which office and officer you are talking with.  I have been in Thailand now for 5 years.  You never get your passport back the same day.  You are given a plastic tab with a number on it to retrieve your passport the following day after 2:00 pm.  

Most offices don't require the detailed bank letter,  Chonburi does.  You indicate you can apply well in advance.  I can tell you Chonburi says 15 days.  So you are correct in saying, you should check with the office you are applying to as to what the rules dejour at that office are. 

 

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

I was never required to have my British Embassy income confirmation letters notarised in this way.

Not notarized.  Legalized.  I was required and perhaps it was only Chonburi immigration to take the embassy letter to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bankgok and have it legalized.  

Since they deal with all the embassies, they can "authenticate" a real letter from the embassies.  The local immigration offices have no such expertise.  Again, that might be only Chonburi.  But I most definitely was required to do it. 

[DrJack54]

57 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I beg to differ with you.  I had a tourist visa.  You can not go directly from a tourist visa to a non-o.  You have to have an extension and then wait until it is within 15 days of its expiration.  I know.  I did it. 

Your posts are just a jumble.

Maybe language based.

 

Here is what happened to you...

You entered Thailand with tourist visa.

That gave you a 60 day permit stamp. 

With at least 15 days remaining on that permit (21 days at some offices) ..you obtained a non O retirement.

That would have included doing a TM86.

You would have needed to have 800k in your Thai bank account on day of application.

That gives you a 90 day permission of stay.

In the last 30 days of that permit with the money having been maintained in account for minimum 2 months you would apply for subsequent 12 month extension. 

 

You also stated in your first post this...

 

"You "may" have luck getting the 90 day extension and then using that to open the bank account depending on the bank policy" 

 

This is another example of your confusion.

You didn't "getting a 90 day extension" 

You obtained a non O retirement and that gave you a 90 day permit.

 

The point is you require a Thai bank account in your name only to apply for non O in Thailand.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by DrJack54

[SmokeandIce]

17 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

Geeeeez. So many answers. This is why I use an agent. These guys who insist that they stroll into immigration with their docs and leave 40 minutes later with their extension are living in la la land 555.

I do it every year without an agent for the last 13 years...never an issue.

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Here is what happened to you...

You entered Thailand with tourist visa.

That gave you a 60 day permit stamp.

No it is not language based.  Perhaps your immigration area has different rules than Chonburi. 

I arrived in Thailand on a 30 day from the USA that was 5 years ago.  I went to immigration.  They told me I had to first do an extension for 90 days which as essentially the same process as a non-0 visa.  I had to go to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and obtain an income affidavit and had to go to the ministry of foreign affairs the following day to have it legalized.  Since I did not have an open bank account the affidavit took its place.  At the end of 75 days I had to return to immigration and file for a one year.  Now perhaps you are considering the first extension to be obtaining the Non-O.  Perhaps you are correct that the 90 day was actually a Non-O visa but that is not how they explained it to me at the time.  They said, I would have to apply for a 90 day extension then after 75 days apply for the 1 year Non-O.  Even if you are correct.  The difference is only in the terminology not in the process.  You go first for the 90 day, then apply for a one year.  

To apply for the 1 year, I again had to go to Bangkok obtain an income affidavit, and get it legalized.  So two submissions only 75 days apart from each other. 

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

No it is not language based.  Perhaps your immigration area has different rules than Chonburi. 

I arrived in Thailand on a 30 day from the USA that was 5 years ago.  I went to immigration.  They told me I had to first do an extension for 90 days which as essentially the same process as a non-0 visa.  I had to go to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and obtain an income affidavit and had to go to the ministry of foreign affairs the following day to have it legalized.  Since I did not have an open bank account the affidavit took its place.  At the end of 75 days I had to return to immigration and file for a one year.  Now perhaps you are considering the first extension to be obtaining the Non-O.  Perhaps you are correct that the 90 day was actually a Non-O visa but that is not how they explained it to me at the time.  They said, I would have to apply for a 90 day extension then after 75 days apply for the 1 year Non-O.  Even if you are correct.  The difference is only in the terminology not in the process.  You go first for the 90 day, then apply for a one year.  

To apply for the 1 year, I again had to go to Bangkok obtain an income affidavit, and get it legalized.  So two submissions only 75 days apart from each other. 

It appears you visited immigration and supplied income proof and used TM87 form to obtain 90 day non immigrant O visa entry stamp (cost 2,000 baht).  Then returned 75 days later to apply for a one year extension of stay for retirement using new income proof and TM7 form at cost of 1,900 baht.

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

No it is not language based.  Perhaps your immigration area has different rules than Chonburi. 

I arrived in Thailand on a 30 day from the USA that was 5 years ago.  I went to immigration.  They told me I had to first do an extension for 90 days which as essentially the same process as a non-0 visa.  I had to go to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and obtain an income affidavit and had to go to the ministry of foreign affairs the following day to have it legalized.  Since I did not have an open bank account the affidavit took its place.  At the end of 75 days I had to return to immigration and file for a one year.  Now perhaps you are considering the first extension to be obtaining the Non-O.  Perhaps you are correct that the 90 day was actually a Non-O visa but that is not how they explained it to me at the time.  They said, I would have to apply for a 90 day extension then after 75 days apply for the 1 year Non-O.  Even if you are correct.  The difference is only in the terminology not in the process.  You go first for the 90 day, then apply for a one year.  

To apply for the 1 year, I again had to go to Bangkok obtain an income affidavit, and get it legalized.  So two submissions only 75 days apart from each other. 

@DrJack54's explanation was accurate, though the visa application for the Non O at Jomtien often differs from the standard practice at other offices.

 

If you look back in your passport(s) you will be able to find the Non O visa stamp which you received to change from the visa exempt entry. It was immediately stamped 'used', and you had a fresh 90-day permission to stay placed in your passport at the same time as the visa.

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

Others are mostly in disagreement with my opinion on this, and Immigration may not applying the rules as I think they were intended.

 

My view is that, for any retirement extension after the first, you should be able to qualify for the next extension based on money in the bank or income. You qualify based on income, by having 12 monthly transfers from abroad or by using an income letter. To qualify based on money in the bank, you must have complied with minimum balances in your account since the previous extension.

As you know I am one of those people who have in the past been adamant that you need to maintain the T&Cs of your current extension (i.e. keep 800K for 3 months, 400K for 7 months & then 800K for 2 months) to get a new one BUT I am just back from my agents to arrange for my next extension (I keep 800K in the bank all year around but use an Agent to do the paperwork & stay on top of any changes to requirements) & they told me I only had to show a 3 month bank statement (Plus usual certificate that you have X amount in the account as at today) so I am starting to believe that you might be right & they don't really care what you do after you get your extension & up to the point where you need to have the 800K again, & an immediate switch to the Income Method might be possible as long as you religiously put the 65K in the bank for 12 months beforehand.

 

I guess somebody who was planning to use the Income method could test it out, if worse comes to the worse they could always fall back on an Agent assisted extension (or in @DrJack54case use the 800K he has in the Bank)

 

NB, I was also told that I need to visit Jomtien IO in person to have the Photo taken, last year I was able to do the photo at the Agents office so would be interested in hearing if guys using "Agent Assisted Financed" extensions are also required to attend Immigration (I guess not if these are done up-country). 

 

1 final point, I was able to use a Fixed Deposit account BUT I had to make a small! (Minimum transfer in value seemed to be 10K) deposit & get the book updated before getting the statement/certificate.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Mike Teavee