Grey clouds gather over Thailand’s welfare state as elderly subsidy cut

 

Thailand’s universal welfare has taken a backward step with the caretaker government’s recent decision to limit monthly subsidies of 600 to 1,000 baht per head to just poor, elderly Thais.

 

Previously, all elderly Thais were eligible.

 

But those who register themselves as elderly from now on will not receive monthly state subsidies unless they can prove that they do not have enough income or resources to live on.

“I am worried that millions of elderly Thais will not get state support despite being poor,” 67-year-old Saiyud said.

 

She explained that it is not easy to prove one’s poverty given the various criteria that must be met. For example, she was refused a welfare card just because, with her children, her household income exceeds 100,000 baht a year.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/aging-thailand-agonises-over-welfare-state-as-elderly-subsidy-cut/

 

-- Thai PBS 2023-08-18

 

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Thank you (military) caretaker government  ????

2 hours ago, JoePai said:

Thank you (military) caretaker government  ????

Ya, those Chinese subs are urgently needed aren't they.

It's 'watch' money for someone.

2 hours ago, JoePai said:

Thank you (military) caretaker government  ????

Those watches aren't cheap. Got to cut back somewhere...

 

In france the government wanted to adjust social security.  People hit the street in big numbers. Thai society seems ok with all this,  so not really any big deal. They will manage it seems. 

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s universal welfare has taken a backward step with the caretaker government’s recent decision to limit monthly subsidies of 600 to 1,000 baht per head to just poor, elderly Thais

While they sit on their millions.

3 hours ago, webfact said:

But those who register themselves as elderly from now on will not receive monthly state subsidies unless they can prove that they do not have enough income or resources to live on.

Ask the two P's or Anutin what they need to live on and judge all others as needing the same..

9 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

In france the government wanted to adjust social security.  People hit the street in big numbers. Thai society seems ok with all this,  so not really any big deal. They will manage it seems. 

Thai's don't have the backbone 

10 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

In france the government wanted to adjust social security.  People hit the street in big numbers. Thai society seems ok with all this,  so not really any big deal. They will manage it seems. 

No need to worry, the sons are drug runners and the daughters are toiling away down south to make ends meet.

As it's a caretaker government can they do this? I thought as caretaker government they can't change policy without approval or emergency measures - maybe I'm too naive! 

1 hour ago, TimeMachine said:

In france the government wanted to adjust social security.  People hit the street in big numbers. Thai society seems ok with all this,  so not really any big deal. They will manage it seems. 

That's because thai education is extremely poor and never teaches them they will get old !

It's fair enough that those, who have fund to take care of themselves, do so. However, the difficulty in Thailand lies in that only around six percent of the population is registered for income tax – and only about four percent pays income tax, according to news articles – so, registering who is actually in need, is difficult for the remaining 94-96% of the population. This does of course not mean that 96% of the Thai population is poor, it rather indicates that there is a huge level of Informal economy, neither taxed, nor monitored by the government.

 

In other countries like the Scandinavian – don't forget that Pita would like to change the system towards these and New Zealand – there is an extremely detailed registration of the citizens economy and government retirement pension is reduced depending of each individual's status. Those with high income pays extra high taxes and gets less in return. Thailand's step increasing income tax-scale is actually even more hard on the rich than the Scandinavia countries, when looking at the difference from lower tax rates to the wealthy people's tax rate – but not to forget that Scandinavians in total pays much more tax, also those with (very) small income.

 

600-700 baht up to 1,000 baht is very little support to those elders in real need when looking at buying power – it's 20-30 baht per day – if comparing to a Scandinavian retirement support from a government it should be in a level up to perhaps between 6,000 and 10,000 baht per month, when considering buying power and difference in general living costs. But paying a rate that equals the Scandinavians would be very costly. It there was no government retirement pension, then a Danish citizen with average income should save up between 20- 25% of the income up to retirement age, to cover for the missing government pension. For a low income – around the level where you would be considered poor in Denmark – 28% to 41% of the income during the year up to retirement age, should be set aside to cover for none government pension. Less percentage – much less – if you are in the higher og very high income level.

 

Would Thais in general be prepared to pay 20-25% income tax for an acceptable, but still modest governmental retirement pension?

 

The average Danish income tax percentage is from 38% – plus additional 8 percent when it's income from work – and up to 52%.

 

Danish government's various income support, which however is mainly retirement pension, equals 14.7% of GNP.

 

It's important to have in mind that the more subsidies the people wish from a government, the higher taxes shall be paid. In Denmark – and yes, we are still number one in the World on the income tax chart – we pay in average around 40-50% income tax, 25% v.a.t. and high gift-taxes on lots of other stuff, like paying for up to three cars when buying one. We ought to get a lot in return, but the higher taxes we pay, we get relative less and less in return – while government administration grows to register and control all financial movements of the population; the Taxman even have access to one's bank account – and today many Danes complains about bad health system, too little pension (compared to buying power) and the number of people that feels they are poor, is growing.

 

It's a quite difficult balance to find – I'm not sure that Pita's and MFP's idea of copying the Scandinavian system is the right way – so, first of all you need to invent a system in Thailand to find out, who really are in need, and an economical registration and control level that the population can accept.

What must this Pita chap been thinking by now.  He has pretty much put his whole life on the line for his country and everybody sits around watching it on their phones.  How bizarre. 

49 minutes ago, khunPer said:

It's fair enough that those, who have fund to take care of themselves, do so. However, the difficulty in Thailand lies in that only around six percent of the population is registered for income tax – and only about four percent pays income tax, according to news articles – so, registering who is actually in need, is difficult for the remaining 94-96% of the population. This does of course not mean that 96% of the Thai population is poor, it rather indicates that there is a huge level of Informal economy, neither taxed, nor monitored by the government.

 

In other countries like the Scandinavian – don't forget that Pita would like to change the system towards these and New Zealand – there is an extremely detailed registration of the citizens economy and government retirement pension is reduced depending of each individual's status. Those with high income pays extra high taxes and gets less in return. Thailand's step increasing income tax-scale is actually even more hard on the rich than the Scandinavia countries, when looking at the difference from lower tax rates to the wealthy people's tax rate – but not to forget that Scandinavians in total pays much more tax, also those with (very) small income.

 

600-700 baht up to 1,000 baht is very little support to those elders in real need when looking at buying power – it's 20-30 baht per day – if comparing to a Scandinavian retirement support from a government it should be in a level up to perhaps between 6,000 and 10,000 baht per month, when considering buying power and difference in general living costs. But paying a rate that equals the Scandinavians would be very costly. It there was no government retirement pension, then a Danish citizen with average income should save up between 20- 25% of the income up to retirement age, to cover for the missing government pension. For a low income – around the level where you would be considered poor in Denmark – 28% to 41% of the income during the year up to retirement age, should be set aside to cover for none government pension. Less percentage – much less – if you are in the higher og very high income level.

 

Would Thais in general be prepared to pay 20-25% income tax for an acceptable, but still modest governmental retirement pension?

 

The average Danish income tax percentage is from 38% – plus additional 8 percent when it's income from work – and up to 52%.

 

Danish government's various income support, which however is mainly retirement pension, equals 14.7% of GNP.

 

It's important to have in mind that the more subsidies the people wish from a government, the higher taxes shall be paid. In Denmark – and yes, we are still number one in the World on the income tax chart – we pay in average around 40-50% income tax, 25% v.a.t. and high gift-taxes on lots of other stuff, like paying for up to three cars when buying one. We ought to get a lot in return, but the higher taxes we pay, we get relative less and less in return – while government administration grows to register and control all financial movements of the population; the Taxman even have access to one's bank account – and today many Danes complains about bad health system, too little pension (compared to buying power) and the number of people that feels they are poor, is growing.

 

It's a quite difficult balance to find – I'm not sure that Pita's and MFP's idea of copying the Scandinavian system is the right way – so, first of all you need to invent a system in Thailand to find out, who really are in need, and an economical registration and control level that the population can accept.

Comparing Scandinavia to Thailand is not exactly Apples for Apples is it .     Pita is an Educated Man but also a very naive one or he wouldn't have entered the Political fray knowing full well that he had to be absolutely 'clean' and free of anything his Enemies might be able to use against him to stop him leading a Government   Being Educated doesn't always mean being Smart and Street Wise !

12 hours ago, webfact said:

welfare state

"welfare state"??? I must get them our dictionary. 

One place is too generous with the welfare they hand out, other places aren't doing enough to help. 

Means testing makes complete sense -- it's the implementation that's problematic in Thailand. Oz does means testing with their Age Pension, apparently with acceptance by most. And the US will eventually have to do it with its Social Security and quit playing the game that it's a retirement program, not a welfare program.

On 8/18/2023 at 12:54 PM, OneZero said:

Ya, those Chinese subs are urgently needed aren't they.

and going to SPACE !!!

On 8/18/2023 at 3:00 PM, khunPer said:

only about four percent pays income tax, according to news articles

So could be considered fair. If you haven't paid in...????

 

Of course my logic does help any little old ladies in Isaan.

On 8/18/2023 at 1:34 PM, hotchilli said:

Ask the two P's or Anutin what they need to live on and judge all others as needing the same..

There's only room at the trough for the filthy, connected snouts! ????????????

Means testing of Thais is going to be difficult. Many don't trust banks, and have their savings in gold.

Some troll posts in violation of our Community Standards have been removed.

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Means testing of Thais is going to be difficult. Many don't trust banks, and have their savings in gold.

Under the bed, under the floorboards, inside walls, cash , gold, i've seen it all here but the most wealthy keep thier dosh offshore and 'invisible', often invested in property abroad.