Trump surrenders for historic fourth arrest

[Nick Carter icp]

5 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I have no expectation you will understand the difference even if this means anything to you

Cult is a term, in most contexts pejorative, for a relatively small group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader, who excessively controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered deviant (outside the norms of society).

OK, so the difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump is a "Charismatic" leader and Biden isnt , so that makes Trump supporters a cult and Bidens supporters not a cult ?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

OK, so the difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump is a "Charismatic" leader and Biden isnt , so that makes Trump supporters a cult and Bidens supporters not a cult ?

Incorrect. But you're not fooling anyone. You will never accept that Trump leads a political cult movement no matter what evidence is presented. Typical really of Trump cultists that believe he won in 2020 regardless of absolutely NO EVIDENCE.

You're really wasting people's time with game playing.

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect. But you're not fooling anyone. You will never accept that Trump leads a political cult movement no matter what evidence is presented. Typical really of Trump cultists that believe he won in 2020 regardless of absolutely NO EVIDENCE.

You're really wasting people's time with game playing.

IMO, Some people just use the word "cult" as a derogatory term .

   "Evidence" seems to be an important issue for you . so what evidence do you have to make the claim of Trumps being a "cult"

    Here is the definition of what a cult is , where does Trump fit in to the definition of the word ?

 

1 

 

: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

• a satanic cult
• cult members

2 

 

: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much

• He criticizes the way journalists promote the cult of celebrity in modern America. [=the tendency of people to care too much about famous people]
• a cult of personality = a personality cult

3 

 

: a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

• a cult of admirers
• She has developed a cult following.

4 

 

formal : a system of religious beliefs and rituals

• an ancient fertility cult

 

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/cult

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

IMO, Some people just use the word "cult" as a derogatory term .

   "Evidence" seems to be an important issue for you . so what evidence do you have to make the claim of Trumps being a "cult"

    Here is the definition of what a cult is , where does Trump fit in to the definition of the word ?

 

1 

 

: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

• a satanic cult
• cult members

2 

 

: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much

• He criticizes the way journalists promote the cult of celebrity in modern America. [=the tendency of people to care too much about famous people]
• a cult of personality = a personality cult

3 

 

: a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

• a cult of admirers
• She has developed a cult following.

4 

 

formal : a system of religious beliefs and rituals

• an ancient fertility cult

 

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/cult

 

 

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to the question of whether a particular group is a cult.

 

In Trumps case we are talking about a destructive authoritarian cult.

 

"The term “cult” gets thrown around a lot to describe the intense passion of Donald Trump’s followers—but is it accurate? For Steven Hassan, a former Moonie turned cult expert and author of The Cult of Trump, the answer is decidedly yes. Trump, he holds, has all the characteristics of a cult leader, and his followers the qualities of a cult, from the all-consuming devotion to a single malignant narcissist to the daily consumption of “alternative facts” to immunize them against cognitive dissonance (a.k.a. reality). "

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/can-trumps-cult-of-followers-be-deprogrammed

[candide]

4 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

And so dont another many millions.  Lets make them understand and let them have piece of mind. Open checking of votes is the only way in this world now.  Too many people.  Too many different views.  Too much anger. 

You are assuming they may be rational. Remember Pizzagate....

 

Poll: 46 Percent Of Trump Voters Believe ‘Pizzagate’ Theory

https://dcist.com/story/16/12/28/poll/

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

You are assuming they may be rational. Remember Pizzagate....

 

Poll: 46 Percent Of Trump Voters Believe ‘Pizzagate’ Theory

https://dcist.com/story/16/12/28/poll/

 

Indeed &

 

Majority Of Republicans Believe The QAnon Conspiracy Theory Is Partly Or Mostly True, Survey Finds

Some 56% of Republicans believe that QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory, is mostly or partly true

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/02/majority-of-republicans-believe-the-qanon-conspiracy-theory-is-partly-or-mostly-true-survey-finds/?sh=604e3fac5231

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, candide said:

You are assuming they may be rational. Remember Pizzagate....

 

Poll: 46 Percent Of Trump Voters Believe ‘Pizzagate’ Theory

https://dcist.com/story/16/12/28/poll/

 

That poll was taken in 2016 . 
"Pizzagate" was about the allegations of child trafficking by the elite .

  Three years later Jefferey Epstein was arrested on those charges .

   He was charged for trafficking dozens of underage girls for sexual purposes , but he died before he faced the trial .

   There hasn't been a full investigation , and so some of the allegations of "pizzagate" could be correct

   

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I see. So Dems have no such emotional obsequious attachment to Biden because he has no personality.

Yes, they just vote for the policies.

[candide]

22 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Indeed &

 

Majority Of Republicans Believe The QAnon Conspiracy Theory Is Partly Or Mostly True, Survey Finds

Some 56% of Republicans believe that QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory, is mostly or partly true

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/02/majority-of-republicans-believe-the-qanon-conspiracy-theory-is-partly-or-mostly-true-survey-finds/?sh=604e3fac5231

And 48% of them believe in creationism.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/03/republican-views-on-evolution-tracking-how-its-changed/

 

It's probably more or less the same guys who believe in Pizzagate, QAnon, birther, big lie, creationism, etc...

 

[TimeMachine]

30 minutes ago, candide said:

You are assuming they may be rational. Remember Pizzagate....

 

Poll: 46 Percent Of Trump Voters Believe ‘Pizzagate’ Theory

https://dcist.com/story/16/12/28/poll/

 

As I sit here trying to think of a better way to eat my BigMac because of the sliding bun problem I realize that changes only occur from the top. For example  Never has a citizen walked into a bank with an idea and the bank says yep well implement that. So, change to voting would only ever come from the top. Its not in their interest to have votes public checkable. It will never happen.  Just my crazy idea. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

That’s all you got? Biden has no personality? Pretty lame, dude. 

Yes, you're right, he's pretty lame too.

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Yes, they just vote for the policies.

From the polls it looks like a lot of them aren't so keen on those policies now. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:00 PM, TimeMachine said:

Anyway.  I only dream. No president and all the pollies will ever want that system. 

Time for me to close down the idea.  Nuff said. 

Cheers all. 

The thing is though, you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

Every single investigation ever carried out into voter fraud in the US has found that there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. And that includes not one, but two investigations initiated by Donald Trump.

 

Quote

The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.

Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud

 

A second firm hired by Trump campaign found no evidence of election fraud

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

That poll was taken in 2016 . 
"Pizzagate" was about the allegations of child trafficking by the elite .

  Three years later Jefferey Epstein was arrested on those charges .

   He was charged for trafficking dozens of underage girls for sexual purposes , but he died before he faced the trial .

   There hasn't been a full investigation , and so some of the allegations of "pizzagate" could be correct

That's a bit of a mischaracterization.

 

The "pizzagate" conspiracy wasn't simply about child trafficking in a generalized sense and not merely by "the elite." It was the conspiracy theory that specifically Democratic Party elites (including but not limited to Bill and Hillary Clinton) were abducting and trafficking children and that the centre of these practices was the basement of a pizza parlour (hence the name) in Washington, that doesn't even have a basement.

 

None of the major elements of the pizzagate conspiracy theory have any truth to them, nor did they have anything to do with Geoffrey Epstein.

[TimeMachine]

19 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The thing is though, you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

People charged and trespassed voilently into a government building. Think more broadly.  My idea of open voting isn't to support Trump and have it over turned to Trump's favour. Its to avoid people's musunderstanding of the voting system so as to avoid future problems of any  suspicion that voting is inaccurate for everyone. 

[ozimoron]

33 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

People charged and trespassed voilently into a government building. Think more broadly.  My idea of open voting isn't to support Trump and have it over turned to Trump's favour. Its to avoid people's musunderstanding of the voting system so as to avoid future problems of any  suspicion that voting is inaccurate for everyone. 

There are mechanisms in place to ensure the integrity of the voting system. Trump is finding that out now. That people are suspicious is their problem. If they have evidence they can present it anytime.

[heybruce]

53 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

People charged and trespassed voilently into a government building. Think more broadly.  My idea of open voting isn't to support Trump and have it over turned to Trump's favour. Its to avoid people's musunderstanding of the voting system so as to avoid future problems of any  suspicion that voting is inaccurate for everyone. 

Can you explain how this "open voting" works?  How can it provide evidence every vote was correctly registered and counted better than the current system of audits by independent parties without compromising the sanctity of the secret ballot?

[TimeMachine]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There are mechanisms in place to ensure the integrity of the voting system. Trump is finding that out now. That people are suspicious is their problem. If they have evidence they can present it anytime.

Yes,  The main problem is there is no evidence,  for example someone gets shot in a house.  Then police are told they cannot go inside the house.  Then there will be no evidence. Supply a free and open environment so that evidence can be found. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

47 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

People charged and trespassed voilently into a government building. Think more broadly.  My idea of open voting isn't to support Trump and have it over turned to Trump's favour. Its to avoid people's musunderstanding of the voting system so as to avoid future problems of any  suspicion that voting is inaccurate for everyone. 

But as stated, no (rational) basis exists to justify suspicions that voting is inaccurate.

 

Given that no evidence of widespread voter fraud has ever been found in all the times this has been investigated, up to and including the most recent elections, there is no (valid) reason for such suspicions to exist.

 

If there was a reason for people to be suspicious of the integrity of the US voting systems, then it might be a good idea to address those concerns. But without wanting to sound like a broken record, there is no factual basis for concern.

[TimeMachine]

13 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Can you explain how this "open voting" works?  How can it provide evidence every vote was correctly registered and counted better than the current system of audits by independent parties without compromising the sanctity of the secret ballot?

The database of votes is accessible to everyone. 

Database will have id number for each voter.  Password for each id number.  You can see everyones votes that agreed to public exhibition. Private can only see their own vote. 

Encryption and block chain technology ensures safety and reliability.  

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by TimeMachine

[GroveHillWanderer]

14 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Yes,  The main problem is there is no evidence,  for example someone gets shot in a house.  Then police are told they cannot go inside the house.  Then there will be no evidence. Supply a free and open environment so that evidence can be found. 

That's not a great analogy. It assumes that something has actually happened and no investigation is allowed.

 

That's not the case here - no one is saying that investigations into election fraud cannot be done. They have been done (as mentioned  two of them were even commissioned by Trump himself).

 

A better analogy would be that the police receive reports of a shooting in a house. They enter the house, do a thorough investigation and find that absolutely no evidence that anyone was shot, exists in that house.

Edited September 3, 2023 by GroveHillWanderer

[TimeMachine]

5 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

That's not a great analogy. It assumes that something has actually happened and no investigation is allowed.

 

That's not the case here - no one is saying that investigations into election fraud cannot be done. They have been done (as mentioned  two of them were even commissioned by Trump himself).

 

A better analogy would be that the police receive reports of a shooting in a house. They enter the house, do a thorough investigation and find that absolutely no evidence that anyone was shot, exists in that house.

Its not possible to go to court to check if my wifes vote has been counted corrrectly.  Not possible to ask for her ballot paper back and ask who counted it and where it was entered.  Instead the path of the votes is used as evidence which may be enough evidence to prove to some,  but those who want to see those details simply can't in the current system. Instead the path of all votes is seen to have been passed through 3rd party unbiased people. Not such a bad system, but there is better.

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Its not possible to go to court to check if my wifes vote has been counted corrrectly.  Not possible to ask for her ballot paper back and ask who counted it and where it was entered.  Instead the path of the votes is used as evidence which may be enough evidence to prove to some,  but those who want to see those details simply can't in the current system. Instead the path of all votes is seen to have been passed through 3rd party unbiased people. Not such a bad system, but there is better.

You really need to stop beating a drum that only you can hear.

The 'voter problem' has nothing to do with how it works, how it's set up, how its administered or it's overall integrity; it's entirely from Trump and his minions being REALLY bad losers and getting enough of their followers to believe his nonsense.

And we have people like yourself who may not have neccesserily drunk all of the koolaid but who have been influenced enough to think there's a problem. There's no problem. Nothing needs to change. The system has worked very well for quite a long time thank you and was never brought into question when it suited Trump (2016 and all the states he won); it's only been a problem when he didn't.

 

[TimeMachine]

39 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You really need to stop beating a drum that only you can hear.

The 'voter problem' has nothing to do with how it works, how it's set up, how its administered or it's overall integrity; it's entirely from Trump and his minions being REALLY bad losers and getting enough of their followers to believe his nonsense.

And we have people like yourself who may not have neccesserily drunk all of the koolaid but who have been influenced enough to think there's a problem. There's no problem. Nothing needs to change. The system has worked very well for quite a long time thank you and was never brought into question when it suited Trump (2016 and all the states he won); it's only been a problem when he didn't.

 

Im finding the drum beating is all about the posts here bagging Trump.  I think you'll find a large percentage of the population like him.  In any case I'm just recommending a checkable voting system that if you're against is your choice,  but then I'm  wondering what have you got to hide if you'd prefer the current system. Saying it aint broken but then not allowing me to confirm my vote is acceptable to some and not to others. 

[TimeMachine]

Hey,  check the irony in this statement.

Lets have a vote to change the voting system.  Hah????

[johnnybangkok]

30 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

Im finding the drum beating is all about the posts here bagging Trump.  I think you'll find a large percentage of the population like him.  In any case I'm just recommending a checkable voting system that if you're against is your choice,  but then I'm  wondering what have you got to hide if you'd prefer the current system. Saying it aint broken but then not allowing me to confirm my vote is acceptable to some and not to others. 

There's many reasons to 'bagging' Trump. This is just one of many. All are neccessary.
What isn't neccessary is a change in the current way voting is done in the US but but like a mad scientist trying to justify his invention, you just keep banging on about how there is. 

One more time. This is a problem invented by Trump because he can't admit to himself nor his minions that he did in fact, lose the election. If that is not reason enough to vote ANYONE other than him for the next POTUS, then I really can't help you. 

[TimeMachine]

22 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

There's many reasons to 'bagging' Trump. This is just one of many. All are neccessary.
What isn't neccessary is a change in the current way voting is done in the US but but like a mad scientist trying to justify his invention, you just keep banging on about how there is. 

One more time. This is a problem invented by Trump because he can't admit to himself nor his minions that he did in fact, lose the election. If that is not reason enough to vote ANYONE other than him for the next POTUS, then I really can't help you. 

And I,  you. 

[candide]

2 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Im finding the drum beating is all about the posts here bagging Trump.  I think you'll find a large percentage of the population like him.  In any case I'm just recommending a checkable voting system that if you're against is your choice,  but then I'm  wondering what have you got to hide if you'd prefer the current system. Saying it aint broken but then not allowing me to confirm my vote is acceptable to some and not to others. 

And what do you recommend against the pizzagate conspiracy?

Put an online camera in the basement (which doesn't exist) of the pizzeria?

[TimeMachine]

Just now, candide said:

And what do you recommend against the pizzagate conspiracy?

Put an online camera in the basement (which doesn't exist) of the pizzeria?

Cant comment. I know nothing about it. 

[candide]

2 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

Cant comment. I know nothing about it. 

Big Lie, birther, pizzagate, creationism  etc.. it's mainly the same people. The problem is a lack of rationality and changing the election system won't change it. Nor will it prevent sore losers and liars like Trump to claim any B.S. that these people may swallow.

Edited September 3, 2023 by candide