18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

My Brother-in-Law is an ex Rugby player... His nick-name is 'shoulders'....

He's fit, healthy, he cycles, has run marathons... but he still has to walk though doors sideways (exaggeration but you get my point)... 

 

.... why should he have to pay anything extra ???

 

The whole concept is morally wrong and it gets toxic when discussing overweight people. 

 

I can understand the arguments, but each one of them presented by someone who's perhaps forgotten or overlooked a little of their humanity. 

 

 

 

 

So perhaps there's another point: 2 configartions of economy seats: 'Basic size' folks and 'big size'.

 

And big size folks (accoring to a published size chart) expected to book / pay for the 'big size seats.

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

So perhaps there's another point: 2 configartions of economy seats: 'Basic size' folks and 'big size'.

 

And big size folks (accoring to a published size chart) expected to book / pay for the 'big size seats.

Nice idea... Perhaps they could call it something like... oh I don't know.. how about 'premium economy' !!! 

 

 

Your idea is actually more reasonable...

If a person is so large that they cannot feasibly sit in regular economy class seat or doing so impacts on the space of a neighbouring passenger then perhaps they should be seated in 'premium-economy' which usually has larger seats (more commonly more leg room though).

 

I don't think there is anything wrong in giving larger people a free-upgrade to Premium Economy (if there is space) or asking them to pay if there isn't. 

 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Nice idea... Perhaps they could call it something like... oh I don't know.. how about 'premium economy' !!! 

 

 

Your idea is actually more reasonable...

If a person is so large that they cannot feasibly sit in regular economy class seat or doing so impacts on the space of a neighbouring passenger then perhaps they should be seated in 'premium-economy' which usually has larger seats (more commonly more leg room though).

 

I don't think there is anything wrong in giving larger people a free-upgrade to Premium Economy (if there is space) or asking them to pay if there isn't. 

 

Or perhaps an airline rule:

- For economy passenges people over 110KG (??) must book Premium Economy. 

At check-in the airline reserves the right to check the weight of some passengers.

Passengers who are over 110 Kg (??) and who have a standard economy booking must upgrade to a Premium Economy ticket or if the passenger is 120Kg or heavier they must upgrade to a Biz class ticket or be denied boarding, and no refund. 

21 hours ago, transam said:

I would have thought that there is an average weight for the price of a ticket amongst normal-ish sized people. So combined body & carry on weight sounds fair to me...

 

Obese folk should fly business, only fair for the normal-ish sized folk who have to deal with an obese neighbour, but that's another topic..........????

 

 

Either fly business or pay for 2 economy seats.

 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Nice idea... Perhaps they could call it something like... oh I don't know.. how about 'premium economy' !!! 

 

 

Your idea is actually more reasonable...

If a person is so large that they cannot feasibly sit in regular economy class seat or doing so impacts on the space of a neighbouring passenger then perhaps they should be seated in 'premium-economy' which usually has larger seats (more commonly more leg room though).

 

I don't think there is anything wrong in giving larger people a free-upgrade to Premium Economy (if there is space) or asking them to pay if there isn't. 

 

You want to reward people for uncontrolled eating? I would only agree to that if the huge person had a clinically diagnosed disease that caused them to become excessively fat.

How about the unfortunate person inflicted with an obese person next to him gets the upgrade and the huge person gets an extra seat beside them in economy?

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You want to reward people for uncontrolled eating?

I would only agree to that if the huge person had a clinically diagnosed disease that caused them to become excessively fat.

Who checks this... should check-in staff be given the power to arbitrarily make the decision regarding whether or not someone can fit in a seat and whether their Dr's note is acceptable ??

 

We see the arguments with baggage issues already, imagine how this would evolve when it comes to peoples weight.

 

 

-----

 

That said, this discussion has digressed across a couple of issues:

- Outright weight - should heavier people (fit and healthy) pay more ? 

- Obesity - should someone who can't fit in their seat pay more ?

- Airline seating is smaller than it used to be decades ago, so are airlines not also complicit in this issue ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You want to reward people for uncontrolled eating? I would only agree to that if the huge person had a clinically diagnosed disease that caused them to become excessively fat.

Also... as this is being discussed - I'd like to see an approach in which we maintain our humanity. 

 

If there is an available seat in premium economy, why not give it to someone for whom regular economy is a tight fit ??...   there is no negative impact on anyone else.

 

It's not about 'giving someone a reward' it's simply about about making the best of an existing situation while not forgetting our humanity.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Also... as this is being discussed - I'd like to see an approach in which we maintain our humanity. 

 

If there is an available seat in premium economy, why not give it to someone for whom regular economy is a tight fit ??...   there is no negative impact on anyone else.

 

It's not about 'giving someone a reward' it's simply about about making the best of an existing situation while not forgetting our humanity.

 

 

 

How about rewarding someone who is not a glutton, over someone that is.

Airlines are not charitable organisations. It's not up to them to make accomodations for people that eat too much bad food and do little or no exercise.

The excessively large person still gets extra space, so why should they get a better seat?

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Who checks this... should check-in staff be given the power to arbitrarily make the decision regarding whether or not someone can fit in a seat and whether their Dr's note is acceptable ??

It would be sorted when the person buys the ticket, not at check in. If all passengers have to give their weight at time of purchase, it's obvious who might not fit a standard seat.

If they lied about their weight, automatically banned from boarding.

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

- Airline seating is smaller than it used to be decades ago, so are airlines not also complicit in this issue ?

Yes they are and should be punished for doing so.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How about rewarding someone who is not a glutton, over someone that is.

Airlines are not charitable organisations. It's not up to them to make accomodations for people that eat too much bad food and do little or no exercise.

The excessively large person still gets extra space, so why should they get a better seat?

 

Sure... move either of them so both have space... there's nothing wrong with that either. 

 

But this idea of yours that this is somehow rewarding gluttony is flawed...  its just making a situation a little bit better for all concerned... it doesn't need to be any less humane than that.

 

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It would be sorted when the person buys the ticket, not at check in. If all passengers have to give their weight at time of purchase, it's obvious who might not fit a standard seat.

If they lied about their weight, automatically banned from boarding.

The weight example is not valid...   A person can be 190cm tall and a muscular 100kgs, he's not fat, although the BMI index may incorrectly suggest he is. 

 

Judging this issue on weight alone is misleading - but, visually, it can be observed who is so morbidly obese that they may not fit regular economy seating. 

 

In these circumstances special arrangements can be made, which are not rewards, but simply dealing with a situation in the most humane manner possibly.

 

If there is space and the flight is not full - give that person two seats. 

If the the flight is full offer another option - reasonably priced upgrade to business or book on another less busy flight. 

 

Its a similar issue when travelling with a child less than 2 years old (lap seat), invariably, if the flight is not full the person travelling with the infant is given 2 seat as the extra space is useful.

This used to happen to us quite often - it was a decent solution and we didn't feel we were being rewarded because we were travelling with a child, it simply that the airline check-in staff took steps to make things a little easier where they could.

 

There is no perfect solution to this issue which is why it's discussed so much with vastly differing opinions. But, some of those opinions sometimes border on the outright bigoted. 

 

 

 

 

On 8/30/2023 at 8:35 PM, richard_smith237 said:

There is no perfect solution to this issue which is why it's discussed so much with vastly differing opinions. But, some of those opinions sometimes border on the outright bigoted. 

Call me bigoted then. I don't know how many nurses ruined their backs by lifting fat people, but it was a lot.

Eventually so many patients were fat that they banned nurses lifting patients and required hoists to be used instead.

If a patient feels humiliated by having to be moved by a hoist that's on them, unless they actually had a medical condition and didn't just eat too much.

On 8/29/2023 at 6:53 PM, hotandsticky said:

That will not happen......this survey is about safety and weight distribution.

Which means next time I fly Korean Air their going stuff me in next to a bloat? 

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Call me bigoted then. I don't know how many nurses ruined their backs by lifting fat people, but it was a lot.

Eventually so many patients were fat that they banned nurses lifting patients and required hoists to be used instead.

If a patient feels humiliated by having to be moved by a hoist that's on them, unless they actually had a medical condition and didn't just eat too much.

Large people need to be managed differently, especially on a plane. I don’t think anyone wants to fly on a plane with a bunch of large people crammed in one side of the cabin. Weight distribution is an imperative on planes, especially small planes. 

On 8/30/2023 at 11:48 AM, richard_smith237 said:

On the surface, 90 kgs seems like a fair limit for a skinny pensioner with a myopic outlook.

 

However, I know sportsmen and military lads who are easily 100kgs...  why should they be penalised ?

 

 

Baggage allowance is fair because its inanimate, it is not reliant on genetic differences, career differences etc...  

People are diverse and singling out any group through any means and charging them more is wrong.

 

A seat is a seat and the limiting factor is if someone fits into it. 

 

Charging for check-in baggage is wrong (IMO) as it compromises safety when people take too much carry on and creates additional choke points at security check-points.

 

If someone is morbidly obese and can't fit in a seat, give them 2 seats, unless the flight is full, in which case, offer them a flight on which they can be given 2 seats (or they have to pay for an additional seat - i.e. an additional child fare etc).

 

How often are the flights 100% full. I've noticed more full flights recently, but still very few are 100% full and I rarely see anyone who is going to struggle to fit in a seat. So a lot of these comments are simply 'pie in the sky' and just a peacocking opportunity for some to show off their prejudice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Going by your logic a large person should not pay more for bigger size

clothes because he can not help he is a big guy?

Does that really make sense to you?

 

the fairest thing would be to pay per kilo.

Less weight for a skinny person would mean less money for the airline?

No,less fuel needed or more space for cargo.

Maybe your big strong fire man makes more money because he can do a certain job?Is that fair?

Disclaimer ,life is not fair.

 

On 8/30/2023 at 2:48 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Either fly business or pay for 2 economy seats.

 

For many years a grossely overweight American lived a few houses down fro me in Bangkok. From memory about 140Kg.

 

He had discovered that 2 airlines offered a special fare for passenger over xxxKg occupying 2 economy seats. Second seat at 50% of the standard fare for that route.

 

He shared that this was not on the websites of th 2 airlines but was available by phone. 

 

One airline offered this deal in economy and Premium Economy, the other airline offered this plan in Premium economy only. Neighbor had shared the airline considered such a big size, even using 2 seats was too uncomfortable and would probably cause some discomfort to any other person sitting in the same economy row. So only available in Preium Economy zone. He also shared that for an additional fee the airline would remove the 2 normal Econ. Prm. seats and put in one much wider seat.

 

 

 

 

Too many take this issue personally, or form opinions based on emotion. It's a simple business deal...more weight equals more cost.

On 8/30/2023 at 3:09 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Also... as this is being discussed - I'd like to see an approach in which we maintain our humanity. 

 

If there is an available seat in premium economy, why not give it to someone for whom regular economy is a tight fit ??...   there is no negative impact on anyone else.

 

It's not about 'giving someone a reward' it's simply about about making the best of an existing situation while not forgetting our humanity.

 

 

 

But I'm just imagining passenger goes on board and tells cabin attendant but you have a policy that bigger people get automatic upgrade to Prem. Econ.

 

I'm so very tired and that makes me feel heavy so I want that upgrade.

 

It would never end. 

On 9/2/2023 at 5:36 PM, novacova said:

Large people need to be managed differently, especially on a plane. I don’t think anyone wants to fly on a plane with a bunch of large people crammed in one side of the cabin. Weight distribution is an imperative on planes, especially small planes. 

As long as they don't sit next to me I don't care.

On 8/30/2023 at 3:59 PM, richard_smith237 said:

- Airline seating is smaller than it used to be decades ago, so are airlines not also complicit in this issue ?

But the discussion isn't complete unless you add that I pay less for a seat today than I did back in the '70s when cheap new cars cost $2500. 

 

Of course, back then, I could use  Delta ticket on a United flight, and if I missed my flight, they'd get me on the next one at no additional charge...

On 9/2/2023 at 12:36 PM, novacova said:

Large people need to be managed differently, especially on a plane. I don’t think anyone wants to fly on a plane with a bunch of large people crammed in one side of the cabin. Weight distribution is an imperative on planes, especially small planes. 

Also large shoulder people need to be managed, i saw a guy yesterday, shoulders freakishly wide to the point i was wondering if they were the latest implants, not a excessively big guy. If you stuck on a flight with him you'd think it was a joke

On 8/29/2023 at 5:47 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Sensitive, overweight are you? maybe why hot and sticky

 

Really stupid comment 

 

And a stupid op

 

....and I think the prostitutes you are seeing in Thailand should charge you more because your penis is 1cm bigger than asian.

Just now, Celsius said:

 

Really stupid comment 

 

And a stupid op

Not really, well not for those of us who have had to deal with a fatty neighbour......????

19 minutes ago, transam said:

Not really, well not for those of us who have had to deal with a fatty neighbour......????

 

What about noisy children? What about rude passengers in general?  Less annoying than some fatty..... or is is just easier to pick on someone fat? Weak, pathetic and loso.

 

You want comfort in the cattle class it is YOU who should be buying business class.

 

And I am just waiting for someone to claim I must be fat because of my views regarding this topic. Will post a pic of my 196cm 94kg hunsum man body 

 

 

 

 

Just now, Celsius said:

 

What about noisy children? What about rude passengers in general?  Less annoying than some fatty..... or is is just easier to pick on someone fat? Weak, pathetic and loso.

 

You want comfort in the cattle class it is YOU who should be buying business class.

 

And I am just waiting for someone to claim I must be fat because of my views regarding this topic. Will post a pic of my 196cm 94kg hunsum man body 

 

 

 

 

Kids less annoying for you, it seems, but kids do not have their elbows up my nose when I am trying to eat.  ????

 

Cattle class have seats to fit average size folk, not for shoehorning a fat carcass in, because you don't want to pay for a seat that fits..????

 

Forget the photo, please, we won't know where you got it from..............................????

12 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

What about noisy children?

 

 

You can tell noisy Children to behave and be quiet , you cannot tell a fat person to go on a diet and slim down a bit 

2 minutes ago, transam said:

 

Forget the photo, please, we won't know where you got it from..............................????

 

That's easy. My wife takes a picture while hold "transam is too poor to buy business class and takes it out on fatties" banner. The Asean Now forum is seen in the background. 

Just now, Celsius said:

 

That's easy. My wife takes a picture while hold "transam is too poor to buy business class and takes it out on fatties" banner. The Asean Now forum is seen in the background. 

An expected reply from a cornered individual....????

 

But never mind, eh......????

On 8/29/2023 at 5:29 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Like I say "eventually" people will pay based on weight, read the post

Most likely start on basic economy with a maximum weight, and you can by flex tickets that cover excessively weight more seat space, as it should be.