Condominium: Who is responsible for the drainpipes which start in my unit and then run along the ceiling from the unit below?

[scubascuba3]

30 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The condo I owned had 400 and they had keys for all (don't know if there was a master key for phases or 400 keys - 5 phases to the condo - loft conversion).  They had access to every unit on sale, you did not have to give your key to them... but if you changed it I believe you were responsible for handing them a key.  When I had maintenance being done all I had to do was fill out a form for non-emergencies - but emergencies they would be able to access it.  I had on several occassions document indicating entry and exactly when they entered, when they left, and reasons for entry and a list of things done if they did anything.

 

It was the only condo in the city at that point that had to the unit gas (for fireplaces, but I also had a Wolf gas range) as well... and some of the condo defined property was only accessable through entering a unit.  

 

When I was selling it I just had building maintenance fix up a few things (for a fee since it was not common property) and he did not need me to give him a key.  In that case since it was not an emergency, I filled out permission to enter for maintenance.

Where in Thailand was that condo?

[bkkcanuck8]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Where in Thailand was that condo?

That was not in Thailand, I was just talking about condos in general.   Everything is usually documented on sale though (to cover the developer, the corporation, and you).  The stupid thing is most people don't read the entire set of documents... and everyone should completely read them and understand them.  (I indicated the only one I owned is not in Thailand).  Personally, I would not own a condo again I don't think... I am less interested in making compromises it takes when living in a condo or HOA... I did however make sure I was on the condo board (which was rather easy since they only had that number run) - so I could have some say.  Good thing about the condo I had - the floors were basically 18" of concrete (to handle forklifts and inventory), bad thing was you could still be constrained by noise as it did not stop sound from getting through...

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Wouldn't they have an entry key for emergency's?

 

Most condos require that. 

 

I'm sure the owner would prefer that than a flooded unit. 

 

There should be an agent or contact number just for situations like this in any case. 

Of course shuld be.

 

How many condo offices regularly chck they have working key for every unit?   

 

How many owners/occupiers/owners who are non resident ever check if the office has a current key for their unit?

 

 

I'll leave the answers to you...

[TimeMachine]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:20 PM, roo860 said:

IMHO they have no right to force entry if no key or keyholder is available. 

I believe there is an unwritten law if it's about safety or need then gotta do it. Perhaps better run condos have it written in to their constitution. 

[markeewan]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:54 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

This is a concern.

My unit's drains were not used for some time (because it was empty when I bought it). If the unit below is also empty and there is a leak, then there could be a lot of damage before anybody notices that there is a leak at all.

I guess it is my responsibility to fix a leak and pay for that. But first I have to know that there is a leak. And if nobody tells me because nobody is watching then that can get expensive.

Let's see.

I think in a condo you only own the space inside the walls and the structure is common property. It is worth reading up on as it may not be as you think.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

It all depends whether your balcony is yours or common area.

 

If it’s yours then you are responsible for anything that goes down it and causes a blockage.  Whether through action, or inaction (ie not removing leaves).

 

Think about it this way, let’s assume the balcony is yours and it’s blocked with cigarette butts, of course you’re responsible, now what’s the difference if it’s blocked with leaves because you never cleared them out every time they got there, it’s still your responsibility.

I expect that I am responsible like you describe.

But what if there is a small leak in the unit below now and nobody reports it, and maybe 1/2 year later the owner of the unit below returns and by then there is a big mess because of all the little water over 1/2 year. I don't think that should be my responsibility. 

[OneMoreFarang]

About the keys: I never let anybody in my condominium if I, or my gf or a trusted friend, is not there.

In my experience service technicians and other people like to look here a little, touch there a little, what is this, what is that, ....

A friend who I trust has access to my condo. If necessary, he can come over. 

No access without supervision - but maybe that is only me.

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I expect that I am responsible like you describe.

But what if there is a small leak in the unit below now and nobody reports it, and maybe 1/2 year later the owner of the unit below returns and by then there is a big mess because of all the little water over 1/2 year. I don't think that should be my responsibility. 

Really, it all depends... while most of us can make educated guesses... some of these questions would require a lawyer who understands things.  It likely depends on whether the leak is inside your condo or out...  I have heard of some major bills with regards to flooding (outside Thailand), so it is one of the small items to make sure your insurance covers (and also having a discussion with a lawyer would be wise). 

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About the keys: I never let anybody in my condominium if I, or my gf or a trusted friend, is not there.

In my experience service technicians and other people like to look here a little, touch there a little, what is this, what is that, ....

A friend who I trust has access to my condo. If necessary, he can come over. 

No access without supervision - but maybe that is only me.

If I owned a place here I probably would install cameras to cover the unit. 

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I expect that I am responsible like you describe.

But what if there is a small leak in the unit below now and nobody reports it, and maybe 1/2 year later the owner of the unit below returns and by then there is a big mess because of all the little water over 1/2 year. I don't think that should be my responsibility. 

There have been cases of peoples sinks leaking over many months and causing damage to the condo below.  They have been found responsible for the damage below.  I think you own insurance normally covers this.

[scorecard]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About the keys: I never let anybody in my condominium if I, or my gf or a trusted friend, is not there.

In my experience service technicians and other people like to look here a little, touch there a little, what is this, what is that, ....

A friend who I trust has access to my condo. If necessary, he can come over. 

No access without supervision - but maybe that is only me.

Same rules condo and house. 

 

My Thai adult son and his Thai wife 100% serious about this rule. Also watch carefully whether the visitor/technician etc., is near the children.

 

And same rule applied to one my D.I.L's brothers. Not allowed to be alone in condo/house and not allowed to cuddle/ hug the children.

[bkkcanuck8]

36 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

There have been cases of peoples sinks leaking over many months and causing damage to the condo below.  They have been found responsible for the damage below.  I think you own insurance normally covers this.

Always check your insurance, not always... depends on policy. 

[ChipButty]

I have some condo's and we have a key card entry system which we also need to enter the project, it is connected to their computer in the past when I have wanted them re programmed I just go to the office with all the cards for that particular unit and they do it for me, I'm guessing they have a master card.

They can enter our units in case of emergency and also the smoke alarms are hard wired down to the security they know exactly which unit has gone off. 

They have a good maintenance team always on site recently had some lights gone out they are not normal bulbs so got them to change them they gave me a time they would enter the unit as it was empty at the time I prefer to pay a little bit extra and get the management team to do the job, anything goes wrong it's down to them, they take photo's when done and send to me. 

A couple of months back a guest blocked a toilet and it was on a Sunday and we were nearby the condo my wife went to the office and within 10 minutes the maintenance guy was at the unit, job done cost me 300 baht.

[Toby1947]

Much ado about nothing, block your outlet up, and buy a broom. Job done 

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

Much ado about nothing, block your outlet up, and buy a broom. Job done 

Now why didn't I think about that.

Oh, maybe the reason is that if I would block the drain then the water would flow from the balcony into my apartment and then at some stage into the common area corridor. 

Thanks for that great idea...

Edited September 16, 2023 by OneMoreFarang

[transam]

19 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

Much ado about nothing, block your outlet up, and buy a broom. Job done 

Oh, wow, really.................

May I call you jug.............

[Mark Nothing]

In my building the condo above is responsible for damage to the unit below with leaky waterpipes.  That is if they choose to.  Some just ignore responsibility.

 

The German owner above my unit renovated his bathroom with inferior tradesmen.  The slow leaks blackened my ceiling off and on for years. 

 

The nightly dripping all night every night while he was in country was a real nuisance. He finally had to remove the tile flooring and waterproof the concrete under the new tiles.  Which worked.  He was responsible for my 2,000 baht new gypsum ceiling and paintjob.

 

The main issue was the shower unit installed was not connected correctly to the building drain pipe results in puddling and slow drip leaking as the water leached through the concrete.

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Of course shuld be.

 

How many condo offices regularly chck they have working key for every unit?   

 

How many owners/occupiers/owners who are non resident ever check if the office has a current key for their unit?

 

 

I'll leave the answers to you...

100%,  right? 

[pacovl46]

This is a total guess on my part, but usually in condominium blocks there’s some sort of management that takes care of the reception and the maintenance of the building and the gardening, for which the residents pay a monthly fee, which should also cover the maintenance of the drainpipes and any repairs that need to be done. If lack of maintenance causes any trouble then this should definitely be paid for by management because it’s their job to maintain the building. 

[radiochaser]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About the keys: I never let anybody in my condominium if I, or my gf or a trusted friend, is not there.

In my experience service technicians and other people like to look here a little, touch there a little, what is this, what is that, ....

A friend who I trust has access to my condo. If necessary, he can come over. 

No access without supervision - but maybe that is only me.

Wife bought a condo late last year.  We were there for a few weeks this year.   The sink in the master bedroom developed a leak.  I went to the office to see if the condo maintenance would fix it.  An appointment time was set up for maintenance personnel to go to the our condo. 

We were told, be sure to lock up or take valuables out of the condo, if you will not be there when the maintenance personnel enters the condo!   This was from the condominium management office cautioning us about their own employees!

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by radiochaser

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

Wife bought a condo late last year.  We were there for a few weeks this year.   The sink in the master bedroom developed a leak.  I went to the office to see if the condo maintenance would fix it.  An appointment time was set up for maintenance personnel to go to the our condo. 

We were told, be sure to lock up or take valuables out of the condo, if you will not be there when the maintenance personnel enters the condo!   This was from the condominium management office cautioning us about their own employees!

And? Did you order a truck to get your valuables out?

Personally I think most of those technicians are not bad guys. But they often like to look everywhere and touch everything. Like kids in a toy shop. Until something falls down and then obviously nobody ever touched it... 

[natway09]

Short answer to your question is YOU.

I know of 2 condo owners who had to replace ceilings in units below & lucky little other water damage.

Ensure have drainers in kitchen & turn water off when away for any length of time in case of a pipe bursting

[NoDisplayName]

Stop by DIY or your favorite 20-baht store.............Drain snake.

 

[david555]

36 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Stop by DIY or your favorite 20-baht store.............Drain snake.

 

or this one ,..... used it at satisfaction with boiling water ...., wear eye protection  !!

Edited September 16, 2023 by david555

[radiochaser]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And? Did you order a truck to get your valuables out?

Personally I think most of those technicians are not bad guys. But they often like to look everywhere and touch everything. Like kids in a toy shop. Until something falls down and then obviously nobody ever touched it... 

Nah, we hired these guys to watch the plumber.

[Dan O]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:59 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

That is correct when the water is from the unit itself. Like a bad valve in unit A, water leak in unit A, and the water supply from unit A will be stopped.

 

But in this case there are two different units involved. The water comes from a drain in my balcony (rain water). The pipes goes to the ceiling of the unit below my unit.

There could be a water leak in the below unit. But it would make no difference if they would close the water supply from that unit, because the water comes from my unit above.

And because the water originates from rain to the balcony of my unit it also wouldn't work to cut my water. Because the water comes from the rain. 

Closing the drain in my unit is also no option, the rainwater has to go somewhere. 

You need to review your condo documents to see how they classify the balcony. It may be listed as your property or common area with exclusive use (of you) or Master Element property. Condo docs and management in Thailand is poor in this respect in many condo buildings. Typically (in the USA) you only own and are responsible for internal wall to wall and floor to ceiling and any piping that is your exclusive use meaning serving you. Piping that is enters and exits your condo and is shared, main drain lines, fire safety, main gas supply etc are common elements before and after they enter or exit your condo. Balconies can be common element for your exclusive use, which gets into a grey area or Master element like windows, roof and exterior walls.  Based on your description of it being a balcony floor drain it should be the condo master entity and they are responsible but no guarantees.