Thermal runaway dangers that seem to be overlooked!

[MJCM]

12 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Comprendo ?

I agree with your comment, but why that last remark?

Edited September 27, 2023 by MJCM

[Eleftheros]

Didn't airlines ban some Samsung phone products being carried on airplanes? I seem to remember something along those lines a couple of years back.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If he were anti EV he wouldn’t produce a video like this

I didn’t know he was selling EVs now.

 

His videos normally get trotted out when anybody wants to bash EVs

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It is an Asian thing, aka Chinese. You see grown up people riding around on them on the Skywalk in Bangkok. Nuts!!

If they're Chinese, I wonder how they're getting them to BKK.  In each of my 5 flights this year from China to BKK, they've asked me to confirm I have nothing battery powered in my checked bags, and they limit carry on batteries to a reasonable size like a laptop.  I've seen them confiscate a lot of power bricks that were too big, and those were often pretty reasonably sized.  But over the limit, which is apparently pretty small. 

 

Edit:  I'd also add that at least twice, I was delayed at Chinese airport security when I walked over there too quickly, before my checked bags had passed an x-ray screening.  They asked me to wait 5 minutes and present my passport and BP again, at which time I went through.

 

Can't imagine they'd x-ray one of those beasts and let it on the plane as checked or carry on.  But then, I've been surprised before.

 

Could be they bought them in Bangkok and are in for a real disappointment when it's time to haul it to China...

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by impulse

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The problem is well known. And it seems often ignored.

Somehow the green fanatics pretend all electric is just perfect. It's not!

No energy is perfect, from:

... battery fires

... generators (all) exploding

... dams collapsing

... oil leaks, spills, fires

... coal burning, mines cave ins

... natural gas explosions

... refinery fires (Philly, PA, USA had a huge one)

 

Nobody can argue, when in use, EVs aren't better than ICEVs, especially diesel, considering all the death and or health issues they've caused, due to simple local air pollution.

 

 

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The problem is well known. And it seems often ignored.

Somehow the green fanatics pretend all electric is just perfect. It's not!

Many times a disaster waiting to happen. 

[eisfeld]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's about the amount of stored energy available to support a fire.

A typical household powerwall is about 5 kWhr. Teslas run to 85 kWhr. That's a lot of stored energy.

 

Size matters.

The product posted to which I replied has 73Wh battery. Less than some laptops or powerbanks. Size matters indeed.

[OneMoreFarang]

It's sad that some people don't want to accept the fact that EVs and batteries have also downsides.

Recently many topics are like religion. You are part of this or that religion, it's impossible to just discuss facts and pros and cons.

There are still lot of challenges regarding EVs and lithium batteries. Probably technology will get better over time. But with more and more of these vehicles there are also more and more problem with the scale of the problems. Arguing "you are against EVs" doesn't make the problems go away. 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

I didn’t know he was selling EVs now.

He doesn’t sell anything. He is happy to get discounts on any vehicle someone wants to buy. He does take issue with manufacturers or agents who give bad customer service and will advise against buying the vehicles however great they are to drive, but if you are sure of the vehicle you want to buy he will help.

He is giving almost impartial advice.

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

His videos normally get trotted out when anybody wants to bash EVs

People mostly don’t bother to understand or watch the videos, it seems that you may have been one of those, they just go by the headline.

 

I have no interest in bashing EVs if you have actual read my posts you will understand that. 
 

I will buy and drive the vehicle that makes sense, at the present time and for my use it is extremely unlikely to be an EV however if I did get either an EV or hybrid I would put it in the garden about 20 metres from our house not in our beside house parking area.

[motdaeng]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's sad that some people don't want to accept the fact that EVs and batteries have also downsides.

i don't know any ev owner who claims ev's don't have downsides and batteries are perfect! 

can you please tell me where they are ... thank you!

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Nobody can argue, when in use, EVs aren't better than ICEVs, especially diesel, considering all the death and or health issues they've caused, due to simple local air pollution.

You are taking one small point in the life of a vehicle and ignoring the improvements made in engine technology. 
In Thailand there is very limited infrastructure available for EVs and if you want to drive from Udonthani to Bangkok you either can’t do it in one go, I’ve done this trip reasonably often, or your trip time has to take hours longer due to the requirements of battery charging and your route options are restricted.

That is just one real life example of where an EV isn’t better than an ICEV. Then you get to the restricted load carrying of your EV. I have carried about a ton on the udon Bangkok route, there maybe an EV that has that load capacity, probably not, but there certainly isn’t one that can do the trip in a similar time to my diesel pickup.

 

in some situations an EV is a good choice, it’s unlikely to be suitable for many.

[Bandersnatch]

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

if I did get either an EV or hybrid I would put it in the garden about 20 metres from our house

You can see from my profile picture, that I am not worried about parking my EV close to my house. 
 

I also have 36kWh of LFP batteries in my mechanical room a few meters from where I sleep. 
 

[motdaeng]

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In Thailand there is very limited infrastructure available for EVs and if you want to drive from Udonthani to Bangkok you either can’t do it in one go, I’ve done this trip reasonably often, or your trip time has to take hours longer due to the requirements of battery charging and your route options are restricted.

can you prove your claims? you seem to have no idea about electric vehicles ...

i have rarely read so much nonsense. accusing others of not being informed

and telling one myth after another yourself!

Edited September 27, 2023 by motdaeng

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, Bandersnatch said:

You can see from my profile picture, that I am not worried about parking my EV close to my house. 
 

I also have 36kWh of LFP batteries in my mechanical room a few meters from where I sleep. 
 

I hope that you don’t have the kind of situation that makes you regret your choices.

 

I too used to live life on the edge and ride my motorcycle at speeds and distances that were completely over the speed limits and arguably way to far. But having got the T-shirts I don’t need to anymore.

[OneMoreFarang]

Dave also released a video about this.

 

 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

I always use mac computers but each mac computer I purchased always had to be bought back after some months or during the warranty for hardware issues. I still use them as I just hate the PC computers. But never think Apple products are trouble free because that is not the case at all.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

In Thailand there is very limited infrastructure available for EVs ???? .... or your trip time has to take hours longer ???? due to the requirements of battery charging and your route options are restricted.????

Wrong... there's plenty of infrastructure/charging stations.  See below.

 

It wouldn't take me much longer in an EV vs ICEV, as I would stop along the way.  Once, maybe twice as it's over 8 hrs, if leaving now overnight, maybe up to 10+ if leaving tomorrow @ 0800 (Gmaps).  It's only 564 kms from Central Plaza UT to T21/Asok.  One stop would be mandatory, for petrol, along with a piss & munch.

 

EV ... mine would require two 30 ish minute stops, to top up to 80% again.  So reality, only one extra 30 ish minute stop.   But feel free to believe what you want.

 

Would be easier simply to say, EVs are for you, as you wouldn't look so silly.

 

Stated many times, EVs aren't for everyone. 

 

Feel free to pollute with your diesel.  Do you know anyone with asthma or respiratory issues ... thank you for your contribution.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You can see from my profile picture, that I am not worried about parking my EV close to my house. 
 

I also have 36kWh of LFP batteries in my mechanical room a few meters from where I sleep. 
 

Yea ... what he said ...

... in our foyer, sitting comfy in AC

 

... plugs in right next to the house

Edited September 27, 2023 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's sad that some people don't want to accept the fact that EVs and batteries have also downsides.

Recently many topics are like religion. You are part of this or that religion, it's impossible to just discuss facts and pros and cons.

I am happy to have an intelligent conversation about EVs, but I find myself as an EV owner here in Thailand having to fact check almost everything that is posted by people that don’t own EVs here.

 

It might sound like EV owners are not prepared to consider the downside of EVs but on the flip side I rarely hear anything sensible said by non EV owners.

 

@OneMoreFarang maybe you can prove me wrong. 

 

Is owning an EV as easy as owning an ICE car? No it’s not, when you fill up you can pay with cash and the staff will take care of everything. Public EV charging requires an app and there is nobody there to hold your hand - this is just too hard for some folk.

 

This is a post I made on my EVs in Thailand discussion over a year ago

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

12 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You can see from my profile picture, that I am not worried about parking my EV close to my house. 
 

I also have 36kWh of LFP batteries in my mechanical room a few meters from where I sleep. 
 

I have the perfect bicycle ???? for a high risk guy like you.

 

[Muhendis]

Lithium based battery chemistry is generally pretty safe these days due mainly to the addition of iron into the chemical mix. When a LiFePO4 battery is charged it will get warm due to the flow of ions from one electrode to the other, likewise when it is being used but the ions flow in the opposite direction. The heat generated can be controlled by limiting this flow to a safe level hence limiting the temperature rise. 

This is controlled by the BMS (Battery Management System) which is absolutely essential for lithium ion batteries.

 

In a lithium battery the temperature of the start of combustion is about 250ºC. By adding iron into the mix that temperature is raised by about 100º to 350ºC.

 

By charging the battery too fast or by overcharging these temperatures are likely to be reached.

Another cause of too much current flow is something called dendrite growth. This is crystalline growth of the chemicals on the electrodes which can cause shorting between electrodes. 

 

By using the correct charger and BMS, problems of overheating are reduced.

 

I use batteries for my solar energy storage but not lithium. Instead I use lead carbon which perform as well as LiFePO4's but without the price tag and with no fire danger. My choice of battery is not suitable for EV's because each 250Ah battery weighs 77kg

Edited September 28, 2023 by Muhendis

[ExpatOilWorker]

9 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

My choice of battery is not suitable for EV's because each 250Ah battery weighs 77kg

How many kWh is a battery like that?

[Muhendis]

22 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

How many kWh is a battery like that?

Each battery is a nominal 12v so from Ohms law 250Ah x 12v = 3kWh and I have 12 of them giving me 36kWh at 48v.

 

Bur the important point in this thread is there is no chemical fire risk.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Muhendis

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

It might sound like EV owners are not prepared to consider the downside of EVs but on the flip side I rarely hear anything sensible said by non EV owners.

I am not able to have a discussion about types of cars. And there is no one fits it all answer or solution.

I encountered enough people who have vehicles with lithium batteries who have no clue there are any risks.

Somehow some of them remind me of vegetarians who tell everyone that they are vegetarian and they live so much healthier, and and and. Often it's virtual signaling and nothing else.

 

If you own and use an EV, fine. And you probably know that there are risks with the batteries. Good that you know about those risks. But how many EV owners don't know and don't care? 

[ballpoint]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But how many EV owners don't know and don't care? 

I don't know, and don't care.

[motdaeng]

20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If you own and use an EV, fine. And you probably know that there are risks with the batteries. Good that you know about those risks. But how many EV owners don't know and don't care? 

i'd say having a "Gig" is riskier than owning an electric car ... 

[Lacessit]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Wrong... there's plenty of infrastructure/charging stations.  See below.

 

It wouldn't take me much longer in an EV vs ICEV, as I would stop along the way.  Once, maybe twice as it's over 8 hrs, if leaving now overnight, maybe up to 10+ if leaving tomorrow @ 0800 (Gmaps).  It's only 564 kms from Central Plaza UT to T21/Asok.  One stop would be mandatory, for petrol, along with a piss & munch.

 

EV ... mine would require two 30 ish minute stops, to top up to 80% again.  So reality, only one extra 30 ish minute stop.   But feel free to believe what you want.

 

Would be easier simply to say, EVs are for you, as you wouldn't look so silly.

 

Stated many times, EVs aren't for everyone. 

 

Feel free to pollute with your diesel.  Do you know anyone with asthma or respiratory issues ... thank you for your contribution.

 

Feel free to pollute with your EV as well on that charging route.

Do you understand those stations are deriving their electricity from fossil-fueled power plants, and you are simply transferring the CO2 emissions from your vehicle to them?

No wonder John Cadogan talks about insufferable t^ats.

[motdaeng]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Feel free to pollute with your EV as well on that charging route.

Do you understand those stations are deriving their electricity from fossil-fueled power plants, and you are simply transferring the CO2 emissions from your vehicle to them?

No wonder John Cadogan talks about insufferable t^ats.

so far, I have not encountered an electric vehicle owner on this forum who asserts

that the ev car is the definitive solution for the environment.

 

typically, opponents of electric vehicles attempt to score points with this argument ...

 

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Feel free to pollute with your EV as well on that charging route.

Do you understand those stations are deriving their electricity from fossil-fueled power plants, and you are simply transferring the CO2 emissions from your vehicle to them?

No wonder John Cadogan talks about insufferable t^ats.

Pretty sure they are not using diesel to generate electric.  Probably natural gas, as the predominant fuel used in TH.

 

Never said EV user are saving the planet, just not contributing to the local vehicle exhaust that has a direct link to respiratory health.

 

I bought my EV strictly for savings & performance, as did most.  But feel free to bang on about nothing ... again, and again, and again.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by KhunLA

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

so far, I have not encountered an electric vehicle owner on this forum who asserts

that the ev car is the definitive solution for the environment.

 

typically, opponents of electric vehicles attempt to score points with this argument ...

 

EV's are without doubt cheaper to run. They are also a good solution to air pollution in urban environments.

It's when they become a religion with some, against the facts, that I say whoa.