Exit 12 month house rental early due to a family member who's terminally ill, there's no terms in the contract for early termination and the contract is very basic and informal but does have key details

[richielg]

Hi guys i've been reading about this for 2 hours and can't find a definitive answer so i'm going to ask here. I want to break my 12 month house contract and move back to the UK because my dad is terminally ill and might only have 4 months to live. I'll be leaving with 7 months left on the contract. The contract is actually really basic because its the second year we've lived there, the first year was a proper contract and in that contract is says at the end of the 12 months if we want to stay then a new contract needs to be negotiated, the second contract for the current year is just an email with the basic info about dates and rent that I signed. There is no early termination clause in the current email contract or the more official one from last year when we originally moved in.

 

The landlord says i'm liable for rent until he finds a new tenant. I would be happy to start looking now so then it could be filled for the beginning of the next calendar month potentially which would mean I don't have to pay for an empty house. But he wants to wait for me to move out and do a bit of re-decorating to make it look nice so that he can charge more money for the next tenants. So I have to effectively pay for an empty house until he's given it a good lick of paint and finds a tenant thats willing to pay what he wants. I was expecting to be able to fill it with someone paying the same amount as me as quickly as possible.

 

I understand Thai law does not permit me to sublet unless he agrees which he probably won't because he was clear on the phone he wants to do it up a bit and charge more money. I also understand Thai law does not permit me to transfer my contract to someone else, he would need to draw up a new one with a new tenant. 

 

I also understand that new leasing laws came in to effect in 2018 stating that a tenant can exit a 12 month lease with 30 days notice or something to that effect but that this only applies to landlords with 5 properties or more which I don't think he has.

 

Also when I signed the 12 month contract I was going through a divorce and I didn't know where I would be at with my visa but the landlord insisted I had to sign for 12 months because he needed the security so despite me not being sure if I was staying in Thailand due to visa reasons I signed with the 12 months because I have a lot of equipment and it made more sense to risk the 12 month contract rather than shift all my gear around at that time. So I said to him I will sign a 12 month contract as long as when I give you notice you just get it on the market and get it filled and i'll take the risk of having a potentially empty house for a few months. I'll tell you why I did that because i'm only paying 29,000 baht a month for a massive 3 bed house in Phuket with a private pool in a really good location and there's no way that post covid and with the huge influx of Russians that I can't get that house filled in a short space of time with the value for money. Thats why I took the risk of tying my self in for 12 months coz I thought it would be piss easy to fill it. Now he says he wants do it up and charge more and I just have to wait until he's happy and bend over and take it? Anyone got any advise? Thanks

[bignok]

Just go. Let him have the deposit.

[Dan O]

Its his house and if he wants to "improve it" for the next tenant thats understandable as he would do the same most likely if you stayed to the end. I can understand not wanting to have an open ended blank check and you'll need to compromise with the owner. Sounds like you want to play both sides and get out early without any penalty which may not happen.  What does the first year lease say about early termination? Your best bet is to negotiate some "reasonable" term of payment that suites you both. Im sure some will tell you just walk away and leave your deposit.

[Sigma6]

Sorry to hear about your father.

 

You dont have to pay rent until he rents it out (after his renovations....!) 

You forfeit your deposit and fly to the UK.  Done

[bbko]

Walk away and let him have the deposit.

[richielg]

17 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Its his house and if he wants to "improve it" for the next tenant thats understandable as he would do the same most likely if you stayed to the end. I can understand not wanting to have an open ended blank check and you'll need to compromise with the owner. Sounds like you want to play both sides and get out early without any penalty which may not happen.  What does the first year lease say about early termination? Your best bet is to negotiate some "reasonable" term of payment that suites you both. Im sure some will tell you just walk away and leave your deposit.

No I don't mind forfeiting the deposit I just don't want him to screw me past that. I can't understand how a tenant could actually ever get out of a fix tenancy legitimately in Thailand if you can't sublet and you can't transfer a contract then in theory and I don't think he will do it to this extreme but a landlord could say ok i'm still trying to fill the house and then turn down lots of good offers while renovating the whole place for months and months trying to get the maximum money for the next fixed term while the tenant who's been forced to move due to extenuating circumstances foots the bill and is liable for the full amount if they don't. It seems to me that there doesn't appear to be any kind of protection for that which I can see in Thai law. There could be but who knows. I was never in this situation in the UK so don't know how it works there.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, richielg said:

I'll be leaving with 7 months left on the contract. The contract is actually really basic because its the second year we've lived there, the first year was a proper contract and in that contract is says at the end of the 12 months if we want to stay then a new contract needs to be negotiated, the second contract for the current year is just an email with the basic info about dates and rent that I signed.

You signed a contract for one year.  You stayed one year.

 

What happens at the end of the contract?  I think normally the contract coverts to a month-month basis, so you never signed for a second year.

 

You "should" now be on a monthly rental plan, required to give 30 days advance notice of leaving.

 

I could be wrong, though......

[Dan O]

58 minutes ago, richielg said:

No I don't mind forfeiting the deposit I just don't want him to screw me past that. I can't understand how a tenant could actually ever get out of a fix tenancy legitimately in Thailand if you can't sublet and you can't transfer a contract then in theory and I don't think he will do it to this extreme but a landlord could say ok i'm still trying to fill the house and then turn down lots of good offers while renovating the whole place for months and months trying to get the maximum money for the next fixed term while the tenant who's been forced to move due to extenuating circumstances foots the bill and is liable for the full amount if they don't. It seems to me that there doesn't appear to be any kind of protection for that which I can see in Thai law. There could be but who knows. I was never in this situation in the UK so don't know how it works there.

Its called a lease for a reason and its meant to protect both sides with language to that end as its a legal commitment. Unfortuneately many feel its great when it protects them but f' the owner when they want to break it.

 

As a land lord myself I can fully understand both sides but you and many others regularly try to paint the land lord as automatically screwing you when that hasn't happened. Many also say oh just walk away and leave the deposit because it doesn't impact them. What it actually shows is the true character of many posters here and that's a sad statement.

 

Sounds like your trying to use your personal issue (which may be valid to you) onto the owner. Owners get the brunt of many renters as they are on the hook for what conditions tenants leave and a security deposit often doesn't cover whats needed to restore a property. I don't completely agree about holding you responsible if he's taking it off the market to renovate but there should be a middle ground.

The proper thing is to negotiate with the owner that your willing to lose the deposit and or a month or so of rent but not open ended since he's renovating which is to his benefit. 

[richielg]

5 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

You signed a contract for one year.  You stayed one year.

 

What happens at the end of the contract?  I think normally the contract coverts to a month-month basis, so you never signed for a second year.

 

You "should" now be on a monthly rental plan, required to give 30 days advance notice of leaving.

 

I could be wrong, though......

No I signed a second one. Its pretty basic. It was just an email thing, both our names, date, renew for 12 months, cost of rent. So its pretty basic but all the most important info is there and so it should count as a contract I think.

[richielg]

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Its called a lease for a reason and its meant to protect both sides with language to that end as its a legal commitment. Unfortuneately many feel its great when it protects them but f' the owner when they want to break it.

 

As a land lord myself I can fully understand both sides but you and many others regularly try to paint the land lord as automatically screwing you when that hasn't happened. Many also say oh just walk away and leave the deposit because it doesn't impact them. What it actually shows is the true character of many posters here and that's a sad statement.

 

Sounds like your trying to use your personal issue (which may be valid to you) onto the owner. Owners get the brunt of many renters as they are on the hook for what conditions tenants leave and a security deposit often doesn't cover whats needed to restore a property. I don't completely agree about holding you responsible if he's taking it off the market to renovate but there should be a middle ground.

The proper thing is to negotiate with the owner that your willing to lose the deposit and or a month or so of rent but not open ended since he's renovating which is to his benefit. 

I understand the meaning and function of a lease thanks. I'm not "trying to use my personal issue". My dads going to die in 4 months. It's not unreasonable to consider whether the imminent death of an immediate family member in a foreign country is extenuating circumstances. In fact one part of Thai law states you can get out of a fixed term contract for health reasons which is not a million miles away so I was hoping maybe someone on here might have some deeper insights other than to explain to me what a <deleted> contract is while trivialising the situation of dads imminent death and my predicament as me simply me using my person issue against the landlord.

[ChaiyaTH]

39 minutes ago, richielg said:

No I signed a second one. Its pretty basic. It was just an email thing, both our names, date, renew for 12 months, cost of rent. So its pretty basic but all the most important info is there and so it should count as a contract I think.

If there is no copy ID card of both of you in the new contract, I doubt it is even a contract that can be enforced in court.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, richielg said:

I understand the meaning and function of a lease thanks. I'm not "trying to use my personal issue". My dads going to die in 4 months. It's not unreasonable to consider whether the imminent death of an immediate family member in a foreign country is extenuating circumstances. In fact one part of Thai law states you can get out of a fixed term contract for health reasons which is not a million miles away so I was hoping maybe someone on here might have some deeper insights other than to explain to me what a <deleted> contract is while trivialising the situation of dads imminent death and my predicament as me simply me using my person issue against the landlord.

 Its obvious your emotional about your situation and rightfully so. I never said your Dad's situation is trivial in any way, in fact the opposite. You're the one asking on an open forum for comment on breaking your lease. I already said I dont think its fair to hold you with an open check but its not fair to just walk away either. There are no deeper insights to give you since your current lease is vague at best. Check the original lease and see what that clause was and then negotiate with them. 

[scubascuba3]

He could sue you if he wanted to but it's very unlikely unless big money, do what others recommend, lose the deposit only and go

[Skipalongcassidy]

I am a landlord here in Thailand and have heard every excuse there is for tenets breaking leases... who am I to say it's not a legitimate reason... that said your landlord has no right to charge you rent while he is renovating his property... give him 30 days notice and walk away.

[BritManToo]

Just go, nobody's cares and there is no law enforcement in Thailand.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I am a landlord here in Thailand and have heard every excuse there is for tenets breaking leases... who am I to say it's not a legitimate reason... that said your landlord has no right to charge you rent while he is renovating his property... give him 30 days notice and walk away.

The OP is saying he feels obligated to help the landlord by paying for an indeterminate period where there's no tenant and, due to an indeterminate amount of renovation, no likelihood of a new tenant any time soon. I have never seen that 'obligation' in any rental agreement anywhere, ever. You don't have to pay for a place you are no longer living in.

 

Give 30-days notice and use this time to sort out the other issue with your "equipment" which, along with the unnecessary information about the house being a "bargain" or somewhat desirable rental, looks like another obfuscation. It's a rental property, not a storage facility, and it doesn't belong to you. You have far more important family matters back home, so simply give notice, pack up, rent some storage space for your "equipment" and leave.

[ifmu]

14 hours ago, richielg said:

Hi guys i've been reading about this for 2 hours and can't find a definitive answer so i'm going to ask here. I want to break my 12 month house contract and move back to the UK because my dad is terminally ill and might only have 4 months to live. I'll be leaving with 7 months left on the contract. The contract is actually really basic because its the second year we've lived there, the first year was a proper contract and in that contract is says at the end of the 12 months if we want to stay then a new contract needs to be negotiated, the second contract for the current year is just an email with the basic info about dates and rent that I signed. There is no early termination clause in the current email contract or the more official one from last year when we originally moved in.

 

The landlord says i'm liable for rent until he finds a new tenant. I would be happy to start looking now so then it could be filled for the beginning of the next calendar month potentially which would mean I don't have to pay for an empty house. But he wants to wait for me to move out and do a bit of re-decorating to make it look nice so that he can charge more money for the next tenants. So I have to effectively pay for an empty house until he's given it a good lick of paint and finds a tenant thats willing to pay what he wants. I was expecting to be able to fill it with someone paying the same amount as me as quickly as possible.

 

I understand Thai law does not permit me to sublet unless he agrees which he probably won't because he was clear on the phone he wants to do it up a bit and charge more money. I also understand Thai law does not permit me to transfer my contract to someone else, he would need to draw up a new one with a new tenant. 

 

I also understand that new leasing laws came in to effect in 2018 stating that a tenant can exit a 12 month lease with 30 days notice or something to that effect but that this only applies to landlords with 5 properties or more which I don't think he has.

 

Also when I signed the 12 month contract I was going through a divorce and I didn't know where I would be at with my visa but the landlord insisted I had to sign for 12 months because he needed the security so despite me not being sure if I was staying in Thailand due to visa reasons I signed with the 12 months because I have a lot of equipment and it made more sense to risk the 12 month contract rather than shift all my gear around at that time. So I said to him I will sign a 12 month contract as long as when I give you notice you just get it on the market and get it filled and i'll take the risk of having a potentially empty house for a few months. I'll tell you why I did that because i'm only paying 29,000 baht a month for a massive 3 bed house in Phuket with a private pool in a really good location and there's no way that post covid and with the huge influx of Russians that I can't get that house filled in a short space of time with the value for money. Thats why I took the risk of tying my self in for 12 months coz I thought it would be piss easy to fill it. Now he says he wants do it up and charge more and I just have to wait until he's happy and bend over and take it? Anyone got any advise? Thanks

we all make out choices dont we?     good or bad  and we have to deal 

sorry bout your dad   ...... 

[J Branche]

Not familiar with Thai laws, in the US the signed contract is binding agreement.  The landlord has the obligation to try to rent and tenant is responsible for lease up to when new lease starts.  If people start taking advantage of landlords there will be minimum two months deposit and first months rent to move in.  Then each contract will include a couple month early termination fee.   

 

Negotiate with the landlord.  Explain you are not a rich man and that it is actually good luck for him because you think he can rent it for more money.

[swm59nj]

Your father unfortunately doesn’t have much time left.  Go be with him.  Just leave and forget about your deposit. You are not screwing your landlord.  You have an extreme circumstance.  In this type of circumstance your landlord should be more considerate. 

[reefsurfah]

8 minutes ago, J Branche said:

Not familiar with Thai laws, in the US the signed contract is binding agreement.  The landlord has the obligation to try to rent and tenant is responsible for lease up to when new lease starts.  If people start taking advantage of landlords there will be minimum two months deposit and first months rent to move in.  Then each contract will include a couple month early termination fee.   

 

Negotiate with the landlord.  Explain you are not a rich man and that it is actually good luck for him because you think he can rent it for more money.

It’s already common for 2 months deposit + 1 months rent.

[spambot]

 

A basic binding contract must comprise four key elements: offer, acceptance, consideration and intent. The offer and acceptance of rent seems to be met. The considerations involved in the intent are not clear. If the email you received specifically says that the offer of rental has been made on the exact same terms as the first contract then the considerations in the first contract must now be met and you must pay the remaining rent amounts. However it should not be automatically assumed that these terms are the consideration within the new contract. The second term of rental would be strongly argued as a contract, but from your email the terms in the new contract are not defined in detail.  The email and response you gave for acceptance will constitute a contract and the considerations contained in the email will constitute the considerations for that contract. It would be required by the landlord to argue that first contract considerations are implied and have been accepted by both parties.  For considerations defined as Implied this can be very difficult to prove unless the evidence is clear and likely result in a lengthy process to reach a conclusion. The important issue for your contract obligations seems to be  what is contained in the offer email and your response email for acceptance making specific reference to any considerations or what a court would believe to be implied.

 

Having said all this - It will be better for both parties to reach a negotiated conclusion. The landlord probably feels that they have a full legal right of a contract to force your payments, but its up to you to show a threat of implied considerations has no detailed prevention stopping you for example finding a new tenant and subletting until the end of the contract. Whether you do sublet or not is up to you, but this is more about showing the landlord that there are no specific detailed considerations which you are required to follow in this new contract. it may change an entrenched position by the landlord accepting that its in their best interests to find compromise rather than hold out for the full term of payment that they initially believe to be owed simply because this consideration was defined by in first contract. There is no magic formula, rather communications and ability to state a reasonable case of your own legal rights are good a predictor of finding a satisfying compromise.

 

 

 

 

[khunPer]

The Thai law says:

 

Chapter IV
Extinction of Contract of Hire

Section 564. A contract of hire is extinguished at the end of the agreed period without notice.

[ ... ]

Section 566. If no period is agreed upon or presumed, either party may terminate the contract of hire at the end of each period for the payment of rent, provided that notice of at least one rent period is given, but no more than two months notice need be given.

 

I agree with earlier comments about loosing deposit and prepaid rent as compensation for early leave.

Link to Thailand Lease Law HERE.

[Bill97]

Arguing legalities is not the best way to resolve the issue.

[1FinickyOne]

13 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

He could sue you if he wanted to but it's very unlikely unless big money, do what others recommend, lose the deposit only and go

Follow the advice above - I would notify the landlord - - and you can't fault him for wanting to upgrade a property that you say you are renting below market... 

[thailand49]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:34 PM, NoDisplayName said:

You signed a contract for one year.  You stayed one year.

 

What happens at the end of the contract?  I think normally the contract coverts to a month-month basis, so you never signed for a second year.

 

You "should" now be on a monthly rental plan, required to give 30 days advance notice of leaving.

 

I could be wrong, though......

You are wrong the month to month is normal generally from the west,  the key to his situation as he noted made an extended agreement in an email that including his own words dates he doesn't mention the dates I assume base on his posting is for another year thus voids any month to month 30 days as you noted. He basically added a addendum to the original lesse

 

The ops dissatisfy he can't sublet his other personal problem isn't relevant looking for a out. 

The owner has the duty to do his best to find another tenant asap his wish to wait renovate to get more rent isn't. I see problems with owner on this point and although deposit isn't normally use for rent being Thailand I would just give up the deposit and leave. 

I seriously doubt a report would be made. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by thailand49

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, reefsurfah said:

It’s already common for 2 months deposit + 1 months rent.

That's because the oversight of any property rental laws in Thailand is poor and any landlord can choose to apply the legal requirements of another country to their rental agreements. This isn't because the local rental market has the same conditions and landlords need the same protections as these foreign countries, it's because it means more money now than later, ie. greed. Plenty of stories about landlords here finding any excuse they can to defer payment on any deposits or part thereof because they haven't got the money. By the same token, there are probably too many tenants who have budgeted on getting the entire deposit back when funding their precarious subsistence here in Thailand.

Edited September 28, 2023 by NanLaew

[edwardandtubs]

OP is worrying about nothing. There's no way this landlord can sue you for rent beyond the date you move out. That's just not the way it's done in Thailand. You forfeit your deposit and that's it. If anything, the courts would say there was no second contract and that the arrangement you currently have is just a rolling monthly contract that legally follows the end of your original 12 month tenancy. In that situation, if you give one month's written notice you should get your deposit back. But as neither party is likely to pursue this in court, the sensible thing to do is just move out at the end of the rental month and let the landlord keep the deposit.

[Skipalongcassidy]

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 I have never seen that 'obligation' in any rental agreement anywhere, ever. You don't have to pay for a place you are no longer living in.

  

It is in every lease agreement that I have ever read... a lease is a legal obligation on each parties part... the lessor to provide a residence... the lessee to pay for use of that residence... both responsible for a specified amount and term... it is a contract.  If indeed the lessor feels that he is wronged in the lessee breaking the contract he can seek a legal remedy for the rent for the remainder of the contract term... whether or not the lessee remains living there.

 

That said... if the lessee moves out and the lessor starts renovations that would render the space uninhabitable then said contract has been negated by the lessor.

[JimTripper]

Leases are just gentleman’s agreements in Thailand, because going to court is not worth it.

 

Its all about the deposit you do or don’t get back.

 

Family illness justifies breaking the lease.

Edited September 29, 2023 by JimTripper

[NanLaew]

15 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

On 9/28/2023 at 11:01 AM, NanLaew said:

 I have never seen that 'obligation' in any rental agreement anywhere, ever. You don't have to pay for a place you are no longer living in.

  

It is in every lease agreement that I have ever read... a lease is a legal obligation on each parties part... the lessor to provide a residence... the lessee to pay for use of that residence... both responsible for a specified amount and term... it is a contract.  If indeed the lessor feels that he is wronged in the lessee breaking the contract he can seek a legal remedy for the rent for the remainder of the contract term... whether or not the lessee remains living there.

 

That said... if the lessee moves out and the lessor starts renovations that would render the space uninhabitable then said contract has been negated by the lessor.

My rental contracts have also clearly stipulated the terms, extent and obligations of paid-for occupation of the property.

 

I have never had one specifically say that in the event of the landlord expecting difficulties in finding a new tenant when the incumbent breaks their lease earlier than agreed, the incumbent will keep on paying beyond the agreed paid-for occupation terms.

 

Back on topic, the OP's previous, written contract apparently didn't have a specific early termination clause. So what? Neither had any of mine specifically, but they did say that any breach of the terms of agreement would result in the forfeiture of any deposit(s) paid.

 

So, as I said earlier...

 

On 9/28/2023 at 11:01 AM, NanLaew said:

You have far more important family matters back home, so simply give notice, pack up, rent some storage space for your "equipment" and leave.

And give the landlord either one or two months rent equivalent. Up to you.