Rand Paul: Withdraw Ukraine money if you want to avoid shutdown

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:01 AM, Hanaguma said:

Depends on what you mean by "win". Give him a couple chunks of eastern Ukraine? Sure, no problem, as long as guarantees are put in place to recognize the terrirorial integrity of the remainder. 

 

The more the west faffs about, the more he will try to go for the big win, and conquer the entire country.

 

How do you see a "win" for Ukraine?

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And you trust Putin's "guarantees"?

 

Like Prigozhen did?

 

Nobody in the real world is that stupid.

 

Ukraine is going to grind up Putin's army until it is no longer a threat. That will be Ukrainian victory.

[FruitPudding]

  On 9/30/2023 at 10:57 AM, billd766 said:

You don't like the truth?

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What you think is "the truth"?

[Nick Carter icp]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:01 AM, Danderman123 said:

You don't seem to understand what a marginal tax rate is.

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Should the wealthy pay more tax ?

(Wealthy being anyone who receives over 20 000 Baht per month ?)

[MrJ2U]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:44 AM, Hanaguma said:

Sounds reasonable. Spending more money on Ukraine should be part of a separate bill, not the general government spending one. Let Congress debate openly about whether or not to add $6 billion to the national debt for that conflict. No reason for the US to pay the salaries of first responders and the like in another country.

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Definitely don't want Russia taking control of the "breadbasket" of Europe.

 

Try to wrap your head around that and not persuaded by idiot Right Wing nutcases.

[LosLobo]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:01 AM, Hanaguma said:

Depends on what you mean by "win". Give him a couple chunks of eastern Ukraine? Sure, no problem, as long as guarantees are put in place to recognize the terrirorial integrity of the remainder. 

 

The more the west faffs about, the more he will try to go for the big win, and conquer the entire country.

 

How do you see a "win" for Ukraine?

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The Budapest Memorandum signed by US, UK and Russia in 1994 already gave Ukraine ''guarantees..... to recognize the terrirorial (sic) integrity' of Ukraine and also to protect its sovereignty.

 

Note, the US also signed the agreement.

 

The Breach: Ukraine’s Territorial Integrity and the Budapest Memorandum

[Nick Carter icp]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, MrJ2U said:

Definitely don't want Russia taking control of the "breadbasket" of Europe.

 

Try to wrap your head around that and not persuaded by idiot Right Wing nutcases.

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Scare mongering there , suggesting that Russia will starve Europe to death if they win in Ukraine .

   Russia has more right to the Ukraine than European Countries do , Ukraine is Russia "breadbasket" its not Europeans breadbasket 

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:29 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

Scare mongering there , suggesting that Russia will starve Europe to death if they win in Ukraine .

   Russia has more right to the Ukraine than European Countries do , Ukraine is Russia "breadbasket" its not Europeans breadbasket 

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Russia has no right to Ukraine.

 

Period.

[bignok]

  On 9/29/2023 at 3:43 PM, KhunLA said:

Stated more than a few times, I would cut all foreign aid, and bring all military back to US soil & waters.  Stop playing world police force & corporate security.  Billion $$$ can pay for their own security.

 

31+ Trillion $$$ debt, can't pay own bills, and giving sh!t away.

 

Can't fix stupid

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100% agree. Fix your own backyard first before digging up others. Basic life advice. If you do a deal with Ukraine you lease them arms which they have to pay for over time. You don't spend a dime or send troops.

[MrJ2U]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:29 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

Scare mongering there , suggesting that Russia will starve Europe to death if they win in Ukraine .

   Russia has more right to the Ukraine than European Countries do , Ukraine is Russia "breadbasket" its not Europeans breadbasket 

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Another nutcase. 

[bignok]

  On 9/30/2023 at 10:57 AM, KhunLA said:

No, I don't.  I guess you missed borrowing to finance the Gulf wars, 10 ish year, and bank/market bailout. Thank you Bush & Obama.

 

5T to 20T $$$$, I don't thing the tax cuts would have made up the amount.

 

Sending with no way to pay.

Maybe you missed this:

 

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Stupid

 

US should be debt free and rich with all its companies

[Hanaguma]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:03 AM, Danderman123 said:

And you trust Putin's "guarantees"?

 

Like Prigozhen did?

 

Nobody in the real world is that stupid.

 

Ukraine is going to grind up Putin's army until it is no longer a threat. That will be Ukrainian victory.

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Can you be a bit more specific as to whay constitutes "victory"? Does it include a full return to the pre-war borders? Does it include the return of the Crimea? You are sadly guilty of what many supporters of the war also do- make vague proclamations and gaslight anyone who disagrees as a Putin puppet. 

[Nick Carter icp]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:06 PM, MrJ2U said:

Another nutcase. 

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Another simplistic reply .

"Anyone who I disagree  with is a nut case " 

[Nick Carter icp]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, MrJ2U said:

Definitely don't want Russia taking control of the "breadbasket" of Europe.

 

Try to wrap your head around that and not persuaded by idiot Right Wing nutcases.

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Another nut case who still thinks Russia wants to rule the World

[candide]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:29 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

Scare mongering there , suggesting that Russia will starve Europe to death if they win in Ukraine .

   Russia has more right to the Ukraine than European Countries do , Ukraine is Russia "breadbasket" its not Europeans breadbasket 

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Neither European countries nor Russia have any right to Ukraine.

The fact that Ukraine or other countries are not attracted by Russia is only Russia's fault. And in particular the current backward incompetent leader who has been unable to develop the economy of his country, and provide wellbeing to his citizen. Russia has no soft power. No country wants to be dependent on Russia, unless it is ruled by an autocrat, such as in Belarus.

[farmerjo]

Why can't they take the money direct from the defence force budget?

[BE88]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, MrJ2U said:

Definitely don't want Russia taking control of the "breadbasket" of Europe.

 

Try to wrap your head around that and not persuaded by idiot Right Wing nutcases.

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Why ? You have land in Ukraine or action company ?

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:11 PM, Hanaguma said:

Can you be a bit more specific as to whay constitutes "victory"? Does it include a full return to the pre-war borders? Does it include the return of the Crimea? You are sadly guilty of what many supporters of the war also do- make vague proclamations and gaslight anyone who disagrees as a Putin puppet. 

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Yes.

 

Ukraine returns to its internationally recognized borders.

 

Putin will lose, I am so sorry for you.

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:50 PM, BE88 said:

Why ? You have land in Ukraine or action company ?

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It is not a good thing when countries grab land from other countries by force.

 

Hitler did that in WWII, eventually he lost.

 

Putin will lose, too.

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:13 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

Another nut case who still thinks Russia wants to rule the World

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No, Putin would be content re-establishing the USSR, and having control over Eastern Europe.

 

Would it make you happy if he were successful?

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 5:31 AM, heybruce said:

Do a little research on Japan's Tokugawa shogunate period and China's Edict of Haijin.  Both were led to periods of enforce isolation, neither ended well.

 

Or simply give a modern example of a prosperous nation that isolates itself from the world and reality.

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These guys aren't interested in facts or history. All they know is their internet friends tell them money for Ukraine is bad, and Putin wants peace.

 

They don't understand that some of their internet friends are in Russia.

[Nick Carter icp]

  On 9/30/2023 at 2:18 PM, Danderman123 said:

These guys aren't interested in facts or history. All they know is their internet friends tell them money for Ukraine is bad, and Putin wants peace.

 

They don't understand that some of their internet friends are in Russia.

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I do think that the Western money being given to Ukraine could be better spent at home, rather than giving the money to Ukraine and its a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and I don't think that Putin is going to move on to other Countries after Ukraine 

[billd766]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:09 AM, FruitPudding said:

What you think is "the truth"?

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It certainly isn't the same as yours.

[LosLobo]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:11 PM, Hanaguma said:

Can you be a bit more specific as to whay constitutes "victory"? Does it include a full return to the pre-war borders? Does it include the return of the Crimea? You are sadly guilty of what many supporters of the war also do- make vague proclamations and gaslight anyone who disagrees as a Putin puppet. 

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I am curious why you have asked 'Does it include the return of the Crimea?'

 

Obviously, the 'full return to pre-war borders' includes Crimea as it does all of Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts.

 

[heybruce]

  On 9/30/2023 at 2:36 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

I do think that the Western money being given to Ukraine could be better spent at home, rather than giving the money to Ukraine and its a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and I don't think that Putin is going to move on to other Countries after Ukraine 

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"I don't think that Putin is going to move on to other Countries after Ukraine"

 

You haven't paid much attention to what Putin has been saying and doing, have you?

[Danderman123]

  On 9/30/2023 at 2:36 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

I do think that the Western money being given to Ukraine could be better spent at home, rather than giving the money to Ukraine and its a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and I don't think that Putin is going to move on to other Countries after Ukraine 

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Its pretty obvious you don't understand the nature of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

 

[stevenl]

  On 9/30/2023 at 12:11 PM, Hanaguma said:

Can you be a bit more specific as to whay constitutes "victory"? Does it include a full return to the pre-war borders? Does it include the return of the Crimea? You are sadly guilty of what many supporters of the war also do- make vague proclamations and gaslight anyone who disagrees as a Putin puppet. 

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There are no supporters of the war. There are people though saying 'russia took part of Ukraine and tried to take the whole country, I don't care, let them have whatever part of Europe they want '.

[stevenl]

Shutdown averted for the moment. Properly thinking people got together.

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, MrJ2U said:

  

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, MrJ2U said:

Definitely don't want Russia taking control of the "breadbasket" of Europe.

 

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And exactly why isn't Europe doing something about it?  You all bitch and moan that the USA throws it's power around too much... but now that you need our help... once again... you want our dollars and support.

[Skipalongcassidy]

  On 9/30/2023 at 11:59 PM, stevenl said:

Shutdown averted for the moment. Properly thinking people got together.

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Why is running one of the biggest budgets in the world always last minute and an emergency

[Danderman123]

  On 10/1/2023 at 12:07 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

And exactly why isn't Europe doing something about it?  You all bitch and moan that the USA throws it's power around too much... but now that you need our help... once again... you want our dollars and support.

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Europe is funding Ukraine's effort to repel Russian invaders. They are sending weapons.