More details on Thai taxation of overseas income

[Neeranam]

39 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Use a Thai Baht account on Revolut and connect it to Google Pay on your phone.  You can 'tap' pretty much everywhere now in Thailand, except for cash-only transactions.

I use that, but better is this one. Everything I pay, I get 3% back. I also get free Spotify, Netflix, and other things like free First class airport lounges. 

Even when I buy gold with this, I pay 3% charge at the gold shop but get the 3% back in crypto. I did have to stake a small amount to get this.

 

 

[Celsius]

2 minutes ago, BenStark said:

What confuses you about my post @Celsius?

 

It is not the reason for the transfer that determines if it is income or not, regardless of the fact that you don't understand the OP with you childish brain

 

Why so angry? I am giving my opinion on what the outcome of this taxation may look like. I may be entirely wrong, but withholding tax on transfers looks like something entirely plausible. 

 

Did you sell everything back home to live the dream? Well, that was a mistake.

[CartagenaWarlock]

Just now, DjChris28 said:

Incorrect. When I was working in thailand, my tax rate was 20%, but my Australian tax rate was %30. 

 

I paid 20% to thailand and 10% to Australia. 

That is exactly how the double taxation works. If pay the country origin x amount and country of residence the difference between x and the residence country's tax y. If x is more than y, you don't pay anything if y is more than x you pay y-x to the country of residence. 

[kcpattaya]

Thailand exodus.
Took a while, but they finally managed it...

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I see. Taksin like, giving loads of assets to his family, gardener, maid, etc. 

I was a qualified bookkeeper in the UK. When I had a business I did all my own accounts 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Why so angry? I am giving my opinion on what the outcome of this taxation may look like. I may be entirely wrong, but withholding tax on transfers looks like something entirely plausible. 

 

Did you sell everything back home to live the dream? Well, that was a mistake.

????Some people are best on ignore!

[VocalNeal]

27 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Depends where the money came from that you Transferred, e.g. If you got a $20,000 dividend & added it to $80,000 savings to transfer $100,000 for a Condo purchase then the $20,000 is taxable (DTAs & Tax already paid aside). 

 

If you transfer 100,000 how does anyone know from whence it came. Maybe 50,000 was a lottery win. ????

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Expat68 said:

I was a qualified bookkeeper in the UK. When I had a business I did all my own accounts 

My father worked as an accountant, my daughter is studying to be one, my brother in law works for Deloitte, as do his two sons. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

If you transfer 100,000 how does anyone know from whence it came. Maybe 50,000 was a lottery win. ????

Like all things to do with tax, it's up to you to tell the truth, or not.  They don't know but if they find out......

[JimTripper]

sounds like money has to be transfered into a thai account to be taxed. maybe atm withdrawls are exempt from tax.

 

i wonder what the reporting requirements are if im just taking money from the atm? do i need to file a return?

Edited October 4, 2023 by JimTripper

[Neeranam]

Just now, JimTripper said:

for example, i could get a refund check in the mail but not have a thai bank account to deposit it into or not be able to cash it because i have no thai id card.

If you have no Thai bank account, how could Thai tax authorities tax you? 

 

[alphason]

Looks to me like you are not liable for Thai tax until you bring in over 210,000THB or possibly more?

 

Personal Allowance 60,000

(+ 60,000 if your spouse is not working and doesn't submit a tax return)

(+190,000 if you are over 65 years)

(+30,000 up to 3x if you have kids in education and your spouse not already claiming)

(+ up to 25,000 for health insurance)

++

 

then the first 0 - 150,000 THB is charged 0% Tax band.

 

So taxed only on what you bring in over at least 210,000THB? Right?

 

A much lower personal allowance though than some other countries, UK allows 12,570GBP (550,000THB ish).

 

On the UK SA302 annual tax calculation it shows 'Total Income Received', then it takes off allowances and shows 'Total Income', depending on which of these figures Thailand uses will make all the difference.

[bugger bognor]

Anyone who believes that there pension will be taxed is deluded it's not going to happen, this will affect 0000.1 of expats, international transfers will never be automatically taxed on arriving to your bank account and then you have to claim it back what are you smoking! This will turn out To be a nothing burger, you really think that All expats are going to register for tax here and file tax returns and prove where when and how and what year the income and savings has come from !  

[JimTripper]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If you have no Thai bank account, how could Thai tax authorities tax you? 

 

in most systems you self file and pay whats owed. theres no reason why it would have to be through a thai account.

 

they track you down later for an audit if needed.

Edited October 4, 2023 by JimTripper

[KhunLA]

"more details" seem to be lacking more details ????

[CTwelve]

11 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

Anyone who believes that there pension will be taxed is deluded it's not going to happen, this will affect 0000.1 of expats, international transfers will never be automatically taxed on arriving to your bank account and then you have to claim it back what are you smoking! This will turn out To be a nothing burger, you really think that All expats are going to register for tax here and file tax returns and prove where when and how and what year the income and savings has come from !  

Even if pensioners have to file a yearly tax return they can just fill that in as 'savings'. I don't see an issue there.

 

The main concern I have is for reporting actual income. This then opens up a massive can of worms about the business, the employment type etc which was one of the main selling points of the Elite Visa. 

 

They've just doubled the price of the Elite Visa so this would be a double hammer blow for attracting wealthy tourists which I suspect is not what they are aiming for... I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by CTwelve

[bugger bognor]

6 hours ago, JimTripper said:

in most systems you self file and pay whats owed. theres no reason why it would have to be through a thai account.

 

they track you down later for an audit if needed.

why would you file anything to whom what department in Thailand 

[mania]

One wonders if they even consider how much investment for next year has even now been put on hold till this is all clarified? Which in Thailand could take a very long time.

 

Penny wise pound foolish it seems ????

[Expat68]

23 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Like all things to do with tax, it's up to you to tell the truth, or not.  They don't know but if they find out......

People who get their visa through income method may find it difficult 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Will be interesting to see how the RD approaches it & I can't wait to see how they're going to understand the local Tax regulations for the other 194 countries in the world, no doubt we'll have to have any supporting documents translated to Thai

Banks have been doing KYC (know your customer) compliance for several years now. In my experience, the latest request specifically asked for any national tax ID associated with the account holder in either the remitting bank's or government agency's domicile, the receiving bank's domicile or both. This information will be encoded in the data that accompanies the transaction, coding that is shared by all banks complying with the international rules and regulations. The remittance will thus be automatically flagged as either being tax-exempt or taxable. The same will apply when remitting money from Thailand to a foreign bank.

 

As an adjunct to the above, the last communication I received from my foreign back regarding provision of a Thai TIN was as follows:

 

Dear Mr NanLaew,

Thank you for completing our Tax Reporting Web Form, however we have not received a valid Tax Identification Number (TIN) for your Country of Tax Residency, Thailand.        

The format is as follows:

A TAX ID Number (TIN) is a unique 13-digit number that identifies a person or entity as being registered for VAT and other tax purposes in Thailand.

We look forward to hearing from you

Thank you & kind regards

 

I took this as specific evidence that they already know the format of a Thai TIN, therefore they knew what they were looking for and they were not wasting my time.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by NanLaew

[ikke1959]

What happens if the paid tax is 

Much more in the home country than in Thailand? Thailand will deduct it too? 

[Surasak]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

You still have to show 65k monthly remittance from abroad if you are on the monthly pension method. That might work if you have 800k in a Thai bank method but then you could just as well use an ATM to take funds from abroad.

Basically if they are determined to tax pensions we are frucked, Taxation and death are impossible to beat in the long run.

Sport Rider's Revolut suggestion will work, but there is a 2.2% charge if you transfer into a Thai bank. IF the card is presented over the counter there is no charge and using an ATM only incurs the usual ATM charge. However, the 2.2% transfer 'could' work out cheaper than paying tax?

[Neeranam]

21 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

in most systems you self file and pay whats owed. theres no reason why it would have to be through a thai account.

 

they track you down later for an audit if needed.

The news laws are on income earned abroad and remitted to Thailand. You can't remit if you don't have a bank account. 

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, mania said:

One wonders if they even consider how much investment for next year has even now been put on hold till this is all clarified? Which in Thailand could take a very long time.

 

Penny wise pound foolish it seems ????

The Revenue dept are certainly not stupid, they know exactly how much they can get, and who from. For the umpteenth time, foreign retirees are not the target and most already pay tax on their pension, which also in most cases is below the taxable amount. 

[alanrchase]

52 minutes ago, proton said:

so will pensions be classed as income or savings?

Pensions are income. 

[shackleton]

I will wait until they pass the law on taxing income coming in  to Thailand

How it's done and who it effects  as still confused ???? 

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, AP2019 said:

My fear is that when I transfer money into Thailand the bank will automatically withhold the maximum tax amount and then tell me I need to file a tax return (with some kind of US tax documentation) for a refund.

 

Where is the thread for alternatives to Thailand? I heard that in Malaysia many people speak English, so no language issues. Also, Vietnam seems to be a good possibility...

 

If they do that, Thailand will be a unique country for taxation in the world.

[NanLaew]

14 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

What happens if the paid tax is 

Much more in the home country than in Thailand? Thailand will deduct it too? 

If there's a dual taxation agreement between Thailand and the country in question, and you have registered your tax domicile with one or the other, tax will only be deducted at one location, not both.

 

As for claiming tax residence in the country that attracts the lowest income tax, that's for you to decide and resolve.

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

 

Why so angry? I am giving my opinion on what the outcome of this taxation may look like. I may be entirely wrong, but withholding tax on transfers looks like something entirely plausible. 

 

Did you sell everything back home to live the dream? Well, that was a mistake.

Withholding tax on transfers...LOL

[Geordieabroad]

Well that's as clear as mud, otherwise there wouldn't be anything to discuss