ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[Thorgal]

21 minutes ago, rabas said:

Mixed. I stated with great clarity. They even say so. You obfuscate by changing my words to 'forged a live clip'. 

Please provide a snippet/screenshot in which I've changed your quote.

 

If I've used my own phrasing/sentences to reply, please consider your request as case closed as per forum rules (trolling). You clearly mentioned : "You obfuscate by changing my words to 'forged a live clip'".  

[Lorry]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:17 PM, rabas said:

Crystal clear up close video of intact hospital, from local Gazans. 

 

Warning: video contains broken windows and a burnt tree.

 

Mr Musks app is not what I would quote for anything...

But that's not my point.

 

I am surprised that the Guardian or the NYT (and others) talk of hundreds of dead.

The NYT is not Arab-owned and doesn't have a reputation for antisemitism.

Both talk about the possibility/likelyhood/whatever that a Gaza missile was the cause - but both don't dispute the death count. 

I have no idea what to think.

[MrMojoRisin]

3 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

He doesn't want to join in on this thread he is just winding us up like his other friends you can spot what their game is miles away just stop feeding them.

Quite the opposite, it is you one-sided truth deniers who constantly post about "start your own thread" and "off topic" to avoid facts that you cannot refute. If the arguments that you are making are sound, if the positions you are taking are supported by evidence then there is no need to obfuscate and avoid any area of discussion related to the Middle East conflict. Yet you constantly do it and I understand why...., it is very hard to debate when you are at odds with the facts.

Edited October 19, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[Thorgal]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Quite the opposite, it is  you onside truth deniers who constantly post about "start your own thread" and "off topic" to avoid facts that you cannot refute. If the arguments that you are making are sound, if the positions you are taking are supported by evidence then there is no need to obfuscate and avoid any area of discussion related to the Middle East conflict. Yet you constantly do it and I understand why...., it is very hard to debate when you are at odds with the facts.

I agree with you.

 

I've been called an antisemitic and//or a liar multiple times because I know a lot about Israel, Judaism and Zionism.

Even when you promote peace for Muslims and Jews you will be branded as Judeophobe.

 

Take care.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Reporters make mistakes. The NY Times initial story on the bombing showed a building that had been bombed, but it was not the hospital.

Did the New York Times retract their mistake and offer an apology?

 

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If you are so sure the hospital was bombed, please provide a photo.

You have once again, unsurprisingly, either completely failed to comprehend simple English or you have deliberately misrepresented what I have stated.

 

I have been very clear that there is not, at the moment, enough evidence for either side to definitively prove that the other side is the guilty party and therefore, anyone who values the truth and facts over partisanship and point scoring would acknowledge this reality and reserve their opinion until sufficient reputable evidence is provided.

 

Please provided proof that I have stated that I am sure the hospital has been bombed or withdraw your false claims and apologise.

 

 

[MrMojoRisin]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

AL Jazeera............................

Yes, Al Jazeera!

 

https://adfontesmedia.com/al-jazeera-bias-and-reliability/

[MrMojoRisin]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Exactly and here was that fictitious story:

 

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1714820640090308908

 

The fact that The New York Times would run such a story is conclusive evidence that it is plausible that Israel either deliberately or accidentally bombed the hospital.

 

Whether they actually did or not will come to light eventually, in the meantime the IDF's claims of moral superiority are clearly and irrefutably debunked - they too are baby killers.

[MrMojoRisin]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

No I don't agree with Amnesty, told you that once already:

 

On February 1, Amnesty International published yet another volume in the litany of copy-paste NGO reports that label Israel as an “apartheid” state. 

"Like many previous NGO publications, Amnesty’s report manipulates and distorts international law, Israeli policy, and events on the ground, as well as denies the Jewish people their right to sovereign equality and self-determination. 

Thus, Amnesty’s report can be considered antisemitic according to the IHRA definition of antisemitism, which notes that: “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.” 

Likewise, Amnesty’s report criminalizes Israeli laws and practices designed to safeguard Jewish identity – such as the Law of Return – which are enshrined under international law and parallel the practices of many nation-states."

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/amnesty-apartheid-analysis/

 

As for the UN report we all know that life in Gaza was miserable, didn't help with Hamas using the water pipe infrastructure to make their rockets:

 

 

You've got to be joking.

 

In a 2004 article for the Political Research Associates, Jean Hardisty and Elizabeth Furdon call NGO Monitor a "conservative NGO watchdog group ... which focuses on perceived threats to Israeli interests", adding that "the ideological slant of NGO Monitor's work is unabashedly pro-Israeli.

 

You think a pro Israeli organisation is producing factual, fair and balanced analysis of other organisations that are critical of Israel?

 

This is as silly as accepting Hamas's claim that their October 7th terrorist attack was justified.

 

🤣🤣🤣

 

Absolutely stupefying post.

[BarraMarra]

I'll play your game answer this without deflecting , going off topic, and tell the truth. Many pages ago one of your suppoerters posted that Europeans are not allowed to mention Israel . I posted a video showing Palestinians demomstrating against Israe'sl on the streets of Leeds in the UK. I  asked him to answer this he refused. i give him another chance to admit yes he was wrong again he refused. So he just made this up hoping for a response. Then another supporter of yours posted an Israeli bomb hit the Hospital and left a crater. We proved it was not a bomb then he changed his story saying it was a missile again he believed because Al jazeera spread the news that 500+ had been killed this was aired 20 mins after the attack no one had these figures but he believed it without waiting for evidence. Its little wonder posters on here are fed up with you and your friends spreading mis information and disrupting the thread.  Answear the 2 main questions I asked.

[Jeff the Chef]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

Give up that 'genocide' nonsense. There is no 'genocide' in any meaningful way. People get killed in wars all over the world, why apply 'genocide' in this case? How come there are more Palestinian around each year if there's a 'genocide' going on?

 

This current topic is not about solving the conflict. This current war is not about solving the conflict. It is about dealing with an immediate situation, instigated by one of the parties.

No. I will not give up on the Genocide issue that is my opinion and as you have said to me before this is a public forum and I have the same right as you to have an opinion. I will agree it will be up to higher authorities than either of us to determine whether there is a case to answer in this conflict.

The topic under discussion is "Israel is at War" your interpretation is "It is about dealing with an immediate situation, instigated by one of the parties."

My answer to that is Israel has been at war since 1948, I will grant you there has been lulls in the fighting from time to time but not at any time in my lifetime has a universal peace been declared.

[MrMojoRisin]

2 hours ago, Thorgal said:

I agree with you.

 

I've been called an antisemitic and//or a liar multiple times because I know a lot about Israel, Judaism and Zionism.

Even when you promote peace for Muslims and Jews you will be branded as Judeophobe.

 

Take care.

 

It is very simple.

 

If they resort to unfounded accusations of antisemitism or start ranting about “go and start your own thread” it means that you have won the debate.

 

Judging by the number of posts where they have done one or the other, it is quite the losing steak they are on.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Lorry said:

Mr Musks app is not what I would quote for anything...

But that's not my point.

 

I am surprised that the Guardian or the NYT (and others) talk of hundreds of dead.

The NYT is not Arab-owned and doesn't have a reputation for antisemitism.

Both talk about the possibility/likelyhood/whatever that a Gaza missile was the cause - but both don't dispute the death count. 

I have no idea what to think.

The issue was that Hamas announced 500 death just a short time after the blast. This was immediately taken up as headline by many news channels (disclaimers are fine, but cannot compete with something like this). Same things with alleging it was an Israeli bombing attack.

 

Figures cited later on refer to various numbers close to the initial 500 meme - but as far as I can tell all originate from the Gaza Strip's Ministry of Health, which is under Hamas control. In past instances, they showed a tendency to inflate the casualty lists some, etc.

 

So while many people probably died there, the initial '500' was not a fact at the time of reporting, and the later figures are difficult to clearly verify. If one looks at the pictures of the blast cite taken the morning after, the damage is not extensive.

 

 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Quite the opposite, it is you one-sided truth deniers who constantly post about "start your own thread" and "off topic" to avoid facts that you cannot refute. If the arguments that you are making are sound, if the positions you are taking are supported by evidence then there is no need to obfuscate and avoid any area of discussion related to the Middle East conflict. Yet you constantly do it and I understand why...., it is very hard to debate when you are at odds with the facts.

You should really read the parts of the topic you missed, and get clearer idea of the context in which the comment was posted.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Yes it is.

 

It is not too late for Israel to stop their rapidly increasing baby and innocent civilian kill count though, is it?

Should they stop or do you think the number of dead innocent Palestinians is still insufficient?

Is there any number of dead Palestinians that you believe might perhaps be a little too much?

Hamas could always show goodwill toward this by releasing the hostages.

You seem to think Hamas should be rewarded for attacking Israel and for putting Gazans in harm's way.

[MrMojoRisin]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

Hamas could always show goodwill toward this by releasing the hostages.

You seem to think Hamas should be rewarded for attacking Israel and for putting Gazans in harm's way.

Absolutely Hamas can reduce the number of Israeli lives lost by releasing hostages.

 

They should do it without delay.

 

How many dead Palestinians will it take for you to agree that Israel should stop the slaughter of Palestinian civilians?

Edited October 20, 2023 by MrMojoRisin

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

What on earth does his nationality have to do with Israel and Palestine?

If you want to debate his ancestry...., start your own thread on that topic.

Ask him, he's the one that brought it up.................lol

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Thorgal said:

I agree with you.

 

I've been called an antisemitic and//or a liar multiple times because I know a lot about Israel, Judaism and Zionism.

Even when you promote peace for Muslims and Jews you will be branded as Judeophobe.

 

Take care.

 

Well, you do have a history of posting revisionist Holocaust material, for example (good memory here). 

 

You do not actually seem to know much about Israel, Judaism or Zionism. That you post of these is mostly false, out of context, propaganda materials, etc.

 

You do not 'promote' peace. Posting falsehoods and referencing dodgy sources on an in internet forum is not it.

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Yes, Al Jazeera!

 

https://adfontesmedia.com/al-jazeera-bias-and-reliability/

Al Jazeera Allegations of antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment

During the Second Intifada, Palestinians killed by Israelis were referred to as "martyrs"; Israelis killed by Palestinians were not.[19]

Israel announced a "boycott" of the Arabic broadcaster on 13 March 2008, accusing it of bias in its coverage of the Gaza Strip conflict and toward Hamas.[20] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism

 

Overall, we rate Al Jazeera Left-Center biased, based on story selection that slightly favors the left, and Mixed for factual reporting due to failed fact checks that were not corrected and misleading extreme editorial bias that favors Qatar.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The fact that The New York Times would run such a story is conclusive evidence that it is plausible that Israel either deliberately or accidentally bombed the hospital.

 

Whether they actually did or not will come to light eventually, in the meantime the IDF's claims of moral superiority are clearly and irrefutably debunked - they too are baby killers.

I prefer more reliable sources but you knew that already:

 

“The Senate Intelligence Committee has received and reviewed intelligence related to the attack on al-Ahli hospital in Gaza. Based on this information, we feel confident that the explosion was the result of a failed rocket launch by militant terrorists and not the result of an Israeli airstrike,” Sens. MARK WARNER (D-Va.) and MARCO RUBIO (R-Fla.), the panel’s leaders, said in a statement.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/10/18/u-s-intel-indicates-israel-didnt-bomb-gaza-hospital-00122197

[Morch]

4 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Did the New York Times retract their mistake and offer an apology?

 

You have once again, unsurprisingly, either completely failed to comprehend simple English or you have deliberately misrepresented what I have stated.

 

I have been very clear that there is not, at the moment, enough evidence for either side to definitively prove that the other side is the guilty party and therefore, anyone who values the truth and facts over partisanship and point scoring would acknowledge this reality and reserve their opinion until sufficient reputable evidence is provided.

 

Please provided proof that I have stated that I am sure the hospital has been bombed or withdraw your false claims and apologise.

 

 

No evidence on both sides?

Israel supplied evidence to support its version.

Hamas did not.

 

Your newfound obsession with the NYT aside, did you take a look at the pictures of the blast cite from the morning after? What do they tell you?

 

There is no need to apologize when you keep referring to to it as 'bombing' or claim that the hospital was bombed. The blast actually occurred in the hospital's car park, and there's no extensive damage to the hospital.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Yes, Al Jazeera!

 

https://adfontesmedia.com/al-jazeera-bias-and-reliability/

Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar. The same Qatar that plays host to Hamas leadership, and spends a whole lot of money in the Gaza Strip. There are normally no stories appearing on AlJazeera that can be construed as seriously critical of even investigative into anything not in line with Qatar's policies.

 

But you already knew that.

[Bkk Brian]

Had to remind myself what the topic was with all the deflection going on from Hamas sympathizers. 

 

The War in Israel

Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War. Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

 

So back on topic:

 

LIVE Biden addresses nation as Israel-Hamas war continues

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67165505

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

No. I will not give up on the Genocide issue that is my opinion and as you have said to me before this is a public forum and I have the same right as you to have an opinion. I will agree it will be up to higher authorities than either of us to determine whether there is a case to answer in this conflict.

The topic under discussion is "Israel is at War" your interpretation is "It is about dealing with an immediate situation, instigated by one of the parties."

My answer to that is Israel has been at war since 1948, I will grant you there has been lulls in the fighting from time to time but not at any time in my lifetime has a universal peace been declared.

Of course you won't. And of course you have a right to hold differing opinions.

But how is 'genocide' a matter of opinion?

 

Your position as to historical references etc. was already answered. This is news forum, not a history class. It mainly deals with ongoing, current affairs. Referencing historical context is one thing, trying to turn it into the main issue at hand is another. There was at least one comment on this by the moderating team as well.

[rabas]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

Al Jazeera is state owned by Qatar. The same Qatar that plays host to Hamas leadership, and spends a whole lot of money in the Gaza Strip. There are normally no stories appearing on AlJazeera that can be construed as seriously critical of even investigative into anything not in line with Qatar's policies.

 

But you already knew that.

 and ... the head of Hamas is worth $4 billion begging the question how profitable is Hamas terrorism to him?  A case of follow the money?

 

Ismail Haniyeh’s Net Worth and Wealth Revealed: A Shocking $4 Billion

 

His income is as mysterious as his group’s finances. He allegedly embezzled charitable funds and imposed taxes on the use of tunnels to pass to and from Gaza.

 

WIKI Ismail Haniyeh

Edited October 20, 2023 by rabas

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Absolutely Hamas can reduce the number of Israeli lives lost by releasing hostages.

 

They should do it without delay.

 

How many dead Palestinians will it take for you to agree that Israel should stop the slaughter of Palestinian civilians?

 

Oh, I think the greater effect would be on saving Palestinian lives - which what you were whining about earlier. Now you deflect by making it about Israeli lives only. Whatever.

 

I don't think Israel should stop the attacks so long as Hamas is entrenched bellow the Gaza Strip, the hostages nor released and the Strip not being demilitarized.

 

 

[MrMojoRisin]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I prefer more reliable sources but you knew that already:

 

“The Senate Intelligence Committee has received and reviewed intelligence related to the attack on al-Ahli hospital in Gaza. Based on this information, we feel confident that the explosion was the result of a failed rocket launch by militant terrorists and not the result of an Israeli airstrike,” Sens. MARK WARNER (D-Va.) and MARCO RUBIO (R-Fla.), the panel’s leaders, said in a statement.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/10/18/u-s-intel-indicates-israel-didnt-bomb-gaza-hospital-00122197

Politicians?

Politicians are your more reliable sources?

 

🤣🤣🤣

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Politicians?

Politicians are your more reliable sources?

 

🤣🤣🤣

"has received and reviewed intelligence"

 

Intelligence and evidence count to some, to others they tend to laugh it off............oh look ^^

 

The U.S. has collected “high confidence” signals intelligence showing that the explosion at the hospital compound in Gaza was caused by the militant group Palestinian Islamic Jihad, U.S. officials said. The U.S. assessment drew, in part, on communications intercepts and other intelligence gathered by the U.S., U.S. defense officials said.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-biden/card/u-s-signals-intelligence-shows-gaza-militants-behind-hospital-blast-VwW5ysaxHfggbrnHgY0e

 

https://archive.ph/Tl7aj

Edited October 20, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Just keep relentlessly killing.

 

Why not, let’s see how high they can get the dead baby count, eh?

 

Civilised my arse.

Why not, let’s see how high they can get the dead baby count, eh?

 

Hamas is doing their best on that I can assure you

[MrMojoRisin]

36 minutes ago, Morch said:

No evidence on both sides?

Israel supplied evidence to support its version.

Hamas did not.

There’s the ever present comprehension issue again. Why do you continue to get even the simple stuff completely wrong and then post outright falsehoods?

 

”No evidence on both sides”

I never said this.

You have just made this up and it is wrong.

Post after post you are distorting what others have said because your arguments are factually weak.

 

I said “there is currently insufficient evidence from either side to definitively reach a conclusion”.

 

Do you understand that what you have posted is false?

 

36 minutes ago, Morch said:

Your newfound obsession with the NYT aside, did you take a look at the pictures of the blast cite from the morning after? What do they tell you?

Do you actually believe that every random internet forum poster is an expert in missile or bomb crater analytics?

 

You and I are both not qualified to pass judgement on the validity of evidence being supplied by either side.

 

What are your qualifications in this field?

 

36 minutes ago, Morch said:

There is no need to apologize when you keep referring to to it as 'bombing' or claim that the hospital was bombed. The blast actually occurred in the hospital's car park, and there's no extensive damage to the hospital.

My initial comments were regarding the fact that whether Israel did it or not, whether it was deliberate or accidental or whether it ever even occurred the fact that many of the worlds major news agencies believed it was a credible accusation to be made against Israel given what they have already done and continue to do to the Palestinians clearly blows apart whatever claim Israel had to bring the civilised side.

[rabas]

14 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Just keep relentlessly killing.

 

Why not, let’s see how high they can get the dead baby count, eh?

 

Civilised my arse.

All killing immediately stops when those who massacred 1000s of innocent Israeli civilians drop their arms and accept responsibility for their actions. That is the first necessary step to a lasting peace between the two peoples.

 

That is what you want, or not?