ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[simple1]

12 hours ago, proton said:

 

The usual unhelpful hand wringing from the Guardian, all that needs to happen is for the hostages to be released and for Hamas to surrender. There is not going to be a 'Palestine' now unless they want to rename Gaza, the Arabs were offered one 5 times since 1936.

 

Nonsense. The article regards ICRC concerns, was not hand ringing, but reporting issues raised by a highly respected organisation. One can equally claim Israeli government is treating Gazan injured as bargaining chips. Why would local Arabs would wish to surrender their lands to Israel interests - has Israeli government  committed to ceasing their Arab land grabs - so far as I know "No". 

 

Right now I cannot envisage an end to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, unless there is change to governing bodies on both sides enabling a 'Two State" solution 

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

One would probably be wrong. Israel got extensive experience with this in many international situations. But even if that's so, it wouldn't be an issue (other than, perhaps, political) transferring babies or patient in critical conditions to Israeli hospitals. There's a;ready a contingent of Gazans receiving medical treatment in Israel that got 'stuck' there after 7/10. Article linked much earlier in topic.  

 

Yes I know Israel provides medical care for some Gazans. I was thinking of realties of survival of moving Intensive care patients. It has been reported some have already died due to lack of power for critical care babies.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Yes I know Israel provides medical care for some Gazans. I was thinking of realties of survival of moving Intensive care patients. It has been reported some have already died due to lack of power for critical care babies.

There is a lot of misinformation being spread because of no central voice but Israel is in direct talks with the director of Shifa Hospital and is providing assistance to remove any babies there to a safer hospital. The hospital by the way is not under siege and the east side remains open for evacuations

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Nonsense. The article regards ICRC concerns, was not hand ringing, but reporting issues raised by a highly respected organisation. One can equally claim Israeli government is treating Gazan injured as bargaining chips. Why would local Arabs would wish to surrender their lands to Israel interests - has Israeli government  committed to ceasing their Arab land grabs - so far as I know "No". 

 

Right now I cannot envisage an end to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, unless there is change to governing bodies on both sides enabling a 'Two State" solution 

 

The same ICRC that wasn't all that active/vocal about demanding checking on the hostages?

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Yes I know Israel provides medical care for some Gazans. I was thinking of realties of survival of moving Intensive care patients. It has been reported some have already died due to lack of power for critical care babies.

 

It's not a choice between optimal solutions, and the distance involved is not great. If it was safe enough, they could have been airlifted.

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The same ICRC that wasn't all that active/vocal about demanding checking on the hostages?

the ICRC also facilitated the two hostage release operations.

 

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/icrc-president-tells-paris-conference-gaza-immediate-imperative-is-to-save-lives#:~:text=As a trusted neutral actor,failing to protect civilian lives.

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

There is a lot of misinformation being spread because of no central voice but Israel is in direct talks with the director of Shifa Hospital and is providing assistance to remove any babies there to a safer hospital. The hospital by the way is not under siege and the east side remains open for evacuations

 

I understand there are 20 hospitals in Gaza, al-Shifa being just one. However....

 

Two premature babies die, 37 under threat at Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/11/37-babies-at-risk-of-dying-in-gaza-hospital-israel-says-to-aid-evacuation

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

the ICRC also facilitated the two hostage release operations.

 

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/icrc-president-tells-paris-conference-gaza-immediate-imperative-is-to-save-lives#:~:text=As a trusted neutral actor,failing to protect civilian lives.

 

Facilitated how? Does the ICRC have information regarding the other 200+ hostages? That was a Hamas PR stunt.

[Yagoda]

26 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Yes I know Israel provides medical care for some Gazans. I was thinking of realties of survival of moving Intensive care patients. It has been reported some have already died due to lack of power for critical care babies.

More babies dead at the hands of Hamas. Sad. I wish the repulsive baby killing barbaric primitive women hating religious fanatic homicidal sadistic rapist terrorists would surrender, but they prefer death of even their own.

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Facilitated how? Does the ICRC have information regarding the other 200+ hostages? That was a Hamas PR stunt.

 

You have extensive knowledge of Israeli conflicts. How about backing up your opinion with facts.

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

More babies dead at the hands of Hamas. Sad. I wish the repulsive baby killing barbaric primitive women hating religious fanatic homicidal sadistic rapist terrorists would surrender, but they prefer death of even their own.

Depends how you view the Israeli blockade of critical services in Gaza. In my view it is collective punishment which as you know is a War Crime

[Chris Daley]

I still have no idea where these places are.  Did they do anything ever like inventions, space technology, medical breakthroughs?

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

I understand there are 20 hospitals in Gaza, al-Shifa being just one. However....

 

Two premature babies die, 37 under threat at Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/11/37-babies-at-risk-of-dying-in-gaza-hospital-israel-says-to-aid-evacuation

Oh ok an Al JiZZ reader..............

 

No there are not 20 hospitals currently in operation in Gaza and the one that is in the real hotzone right now is the Shifa Hospital which is the one in your link and the one I was specifically talking about. 

 

 

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

You have extensive knowledge of Israeli conflicts. How about backing up your opinion with facts.

 

Not sure I'm following your drift - what 'opinion' would that be?

The facts are that over 200 hostages are presumed to be held in the Gaza Strip. The fact is that their conditions and whereabouts are unknown. It's been about a month now.

[Yagoda]

24 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Depends how you view the Israeli blockade of critical services in Gaza. In my view it is collective punishment which as you know is a War Crime

Your terrorist supporting view is meaningless.

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Your terrorist supporting view is meaningless.

 

 

Only to you.

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Your terrorist supporting view is meaningless.

 

You should really try and read people's posts before tossing allegations about.

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Not sure I'm following your drift - what 'opinion' would that be?

<deleted>

Querying Intl Red Cross facilitated release of two hostages. I suggest Intl Red Cross would be an influencer in decision making and are held in respect by other substantive organisations.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Your terrorist supporting view is meaningless.

 

Please try a more informed / mature approach when commenting. I understand it is in breach of forum rules to make inflammatory remarks about member/s; how about an apology...

[Morch]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Querying Intl Red Cross facilitated release of two hostages. I suggest Intl Red Cross would be an influencer in decision making and are held in respect by other substantive organisations.

 

In the reports I read, the 'facilitated' bit was almost uniformly associated with 'transporting the released hostages to the border pass' (or something along these lines). Didn't see that they were party to negotiations or had much influence regarding such.

 

And yes, my view of many aid organizations operating in the Gaza Strip is not a very favorable one. I do appreciate the conditions and restrictions they work under and the realities with which they need to contend, but still. Addressed some of this in somewhat more detail and scope on a parallel topic.

 

There's a vested interest of everyone semi-involved in the hostages thing to come out as instrumental - a fine example would be Netanyahu's recently appointed man for the job (no qualifications, no diplomatic/people skills). Same thing with Egypt and Qatar trying to upstage each other as the main mediator.

[Yagoda]

19 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Please try a more informed / mature approach when commenting. I understand it is in breach of forum rules to make inflammatory remarks about member/s; how about an apology...

Sure Ill apologoze when you say you support the legimate state of Israels right to defend itself and that Hamas is a murderous terrorist organization and should be wiped out.

 

Now if the shoe fits......

[Yagoda]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

You should really try and read people's posts before tossing allegations about.

 

What are you the topic monitor?

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

What are you the topic monitor?

 

Nope. Pointing out that you are wrong, is all.

[Thorgal]

4 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

Did you hear, or has it been reported or did a friendly rabbit tell you. Where does this information originate? 

 

One of them :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQcjyhPOIk&t=46s

 

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Sure Ill apologoze when you say you support the legimate state of Israels right to defend itself and that Hamas is a murderous terrorist organization and should be wiped out.

 

Now if the shoe fits......

Agree, though I don't know how Israel can 'wipe out' Hamas. Without doubt Israel can largely destroy Hamas current 'fighters' and war making infrastructure, but the political and ideological - very doubtful - maybe end up as more like Palestine Islamic Jihad (est 1000 members)

[Wobblybob]

10 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

One of them :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQcjyhPOIk&t=46s

 

Never heard of the Middle East Eye before so did a quick look-see and they are less than reliable and have strong liberal views, they have Al Jazeera reporters working for them, so this time I'll skip indoctrinating myself, but thanks for the effort.🥴

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Agree, though I don't know how Israel can 'wipe out' Hamas. Without doubt Israel can largely destroy Hamas current 'fighters' and war making infrastructure, but the political and ideological - very doubtful - maybe end up as more like Palestine Islamic Jihad (est 1000 members)

 

The political apparatus side of things is easier to dismantle than people imagine. Without money and muscle, it's hard to play the political game. As for talk about Hamas being an 'idea' - I'm not exactly sure what people mean by that. What 'idea' is represented?

[Morch]

Just now, Wobblybob said:

Never heard of the Middle East Eye before so did a quick look-see and they are less than reliable and have strong liberal views, they have Al Jazeera reporters working for them, so this time I'll skip indoctrinating myself, but thanks for the effort.🥴

 

It's a definitely biased source, but they are not exclusively anti-Israel, also sometimes running stories that piss various ME regimes. Anyway, the recording is from Israeli media, if I'm not mistaken.

[rabas]

16 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

One of them :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTQcjyhPOIk&t=46s

 

 

One of your 300 to 400 claim? Fail. 

 

I've already seen that clip. Witness claims Hamas was so nice and polite. Well, she herself is Arab. 

 

Is that the best evidence you have for 0.3% of your claim? 

[Thorgal]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

One of your 300 to 400 claim? Fail. 

 

I've already seen that clip. Witness claims Hamas was so nice and polite. Well, she herself is Arab. 

 

Is that the best evidence you have for 0.3% of your claim? 

 

My quote :

 

"Some 300 to 400 victims were IDF or Israeli police personnel.

There's also Israeli friendly fire from IDF/IAF to Israeli civilians with Merkava tanks and Apache helicopters."

 

 

 

Yasmin Porat witnessed on Israel National Radio her experience from the Hamas attacks and the friendly fire of IDF/Israeli security forces.

 

The 300 to 400 victims of the 1.200 (before 1.400) victims were IDF or Israeli police personnel.

 

Yasmin Porat is not one of the 300 to 400...