Buying condo's to rent out

[Pattaya57]

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Not enforced it seems, so maybe it will be enforced 

Rental income in Thailand has always been taxable but it's up to the individual to submit a tax return just like in most other countries.

 

I didn't submit an Aussie tax return for 7 years, no-one chased me to do so but I paid the penalty when I finally did submit them. I'd say Thailand is the same.

 

Also no tax to pay if rental income less than 150k baht nett per year and only 5% on 150,001 to 300,000 if you had 7 Nirun condo's ????

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Pattaya57

[Lemsta69]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

The OP apparently has 10 MB lying around all day eating bon bons and watching Netflix.  I think he needs to put some of it to work earning some money for him

No, he doesn't have ฿10 mil lying around doing nothing. He's still working in Astraya and putting as much as he can in to his super fund, presumably via salary sacrifice for the tax concessions.

 

If he's put his super into a low-fee fund with a good investment performance eg. AustralianSuper then his money is working for him, and at concessional tax rates.

 

Dunno when he plans to retire and cash in. I also wonder if he's looked into one of those lifetime annuity thingies. I'm not of the age yet to have to worry about this so I'm no help.

[Steven55]

12 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Lately  have this fetish to think about buying Condo's to rent out so I can get income to live in Pattaya 

 

I will have to withdraw the money from my retirement account though , but...I'm thinking I will have income coming in..

 

But then I'm thinking if I spend say 600,000 baht on a condo in the Nirun and it gets 4,500 baht a month rent ( if I can find a tenant) then after expenses it's going to take over 10 years to get the capital back.

 

I don't know ,is it worth the risk ?

Say I have 10 million baht in my retirement funds and I buy all these condo's and have only rent coming in  and no monthly retirement income from the savings account as I spend it all on condo's .

 

I do think low class condo's would be better to rent out , I don't like the Nirun ,last time I was there to look  it was 9am and shirtless farangs were just standing by doorways holding bottles of beer ,as I walked past one ,he lifted his beer up & he shouted out "bunny wabbit !!! Bunny Wabbit! 

 

So I kept walking 

10 million baht --> transfer it to dollars: 4-5% interest

[Pattaya57]

51 minutes ago, Steven55 said:

10 million baht --> transfer it to dollars: 4-5% interest

I'm renting out a 2.2 million baht Condo for 7.1% nett (8.7% Gross). Much better than bank interest 

 

Agent also says my 6 million Baht condo will get 5.8% nett (7.2% Gross) as less people can afford it. So maybe buying 2 million baht condo's is the sweet spot for rental investments?

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Pattaya57

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Bobthegimp said:

You're clearly "Nirun" material, so why not embrace it?  Flybird is even cheaper, though maintained to a much lower standard.  You could live in one of the condos and keep an eye on your tenants; the "millionaire next door" type of scenario.

Very common scenario. I rented a place where the landlord lady would poke her head out and look down the hall at my comings and goings. ????

Edited October 11, 2023 by JimTripper

[Irish star]

I heard if you want good rent get something in the 10 million range maybe a two bedroom , not a shoebox 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Irish star

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, Irish star said:

I heard if you want good rent get something in the 10 million range maybe a two bedroom , not a shoebox 

I've noticed that for example 2x single units have a higher rent than 1 combined unit, maybe easier to rent out also

[Pattaya57]

22 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've noticed that for example 2x single units have a higher rent than 1 combined unit, maybe easier to rent out also

My property investments allowed me to retire at 52. My #1 rule, only buy median priced properties that receive the median price rental. My rental properties were never empty and renters nicely paid off my mortgages for me

 

Buying an expensive property to get less nett rent is silly, as is buying multiple cheap Nirun condos as per "OP's latest Fetish" (he said it)

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Pattaya57

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Lately  have this fetish to think about buying Condo's to rent out so I can get income to live in Pattaya 

1st thing you have to ask yourself is; will I become a non resident for tax purposes, or will I remain a resident for tax purposes, the latter means that you are taxed on your worldwide income.

 

13 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I don't know ,is it worth the risk ?

 

Buying property in a foreign country such as Thailand is always a risk, different structures and laws vs those in Australia, so your risk will be much higher.

 

13 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Say I have 10 million baht in my retirement funds

If you did have that kind of money, then you would be best off spending some on seeking the advice of a financial planner or watching a lot of YouTube videos, because you need to set yourself up before you make the move, whether it be an income stream, you MUST watch out for the tax complications that will follow, suffice to say any income made in Australia is taxable if you are a resident for tax purposes.

 

On the other hand, you might buy some dividend paying shares as a non resident and as the tax is paid on them, you don't have to pay any tax, the bonus with that is there is no capital gains tax payable on any actual gains if you're lucky enough to buy stocks that do increase over time.

 

Then you have to think about the age pension, i.e. if your sitting around for it, there is an asset threshold and as a non home owner you would just make it, i.e. you would be eligible, however on the other hand Services Australia will apply a Deeming Rate to you're assets, which would mean that your age pension will be reduced and will stay that way even when you move over here.

 

Currently it's 0.25% on the first $60,400.00 for a single block and then it jumps to 2.25% on the balance, so if you have 10 million baht, then your pension will be reduced by $8,575.00 per year, so if the pension is $26,000 per year, you will receive $17,425.00 but there are offsets that might be able to minimise that to about $100.00 a fortnight, e.g. $2,600.00 per year less as opposed to $8,575.00 per year.

 

You really need to seek professional advice, it will cost, or start educating yourself on the above, because without a strategy, on making an income, a tax free income, your money will just dwindle downwards.

 

In the 8 years that I have been here, I have managed to earn about 7.65% per annum tax free on my worst year (this year), but like I said, you have to educate yourself or get a professional to provide you advice on how to receive an income stream, preferably a tax free one, but any professional advice will cost you.

 

As the Thai's say, "up to you" ????

 

 

  

[JimTripper]

You may also want to consider if you're wanting to do this because you want to make a profit, or because your bored and just need a project or something to do.

 

A lot of guys in Thailand kind of pick up these lame business ventures just because they are sitting around and not working. That's a lot of what the buying bars is about and also the vlogging channels.

 

Try some serious hobbies or workout routines that get your mind of just sitting around.

[NextG]

3 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

You may also want to consider if you're wanting to do this because you want to make a profit, or because your bored and just need a project or something to do.

 

A lot of guys in Thailand kind of pick up these lame business ventures just because they are sitting around and not working. That's a lot of what the buying bars is about and also the vlogging channels.

 

Try some serious hobbies or workout routines that get your mind of just sitting around.

What are your hobbies?

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Lemsta69 said:

No, he doesn't have ฿10 mil lying around doing nothing. He's still working in Astraya and putting as much as he can in to his super fund, presumably via salary sacrifice for the tax concessions.

 

If he's put his super into a low-fee fund with a good investment performance eg. AustralianSuper then his money is working for him, and at concessional tax rates.

 

Dunno when he plans to retire and cash in. I also wonder if he's looked into one of those lifetime annuity thingies. I'm not of the age yet to have to worry about this so I'm no help.

     Guess I was thrown off by his statement: 'Say I have 10 million baht in my retirement funds...'.   In any case, I am not following his backstory, whatever it is.  Wouldn't change anything I posted.

[JimTripper]

27 minutes ago, NextG said:

What are your hobbies?

A man can't tell another man their hobbies. The Op will need to find his own hobbies, unless he really likes buying & renting properties, that's Ok too.

 

The reason I brought it up is that it sounds like he has a decent size savings and won't see a return on the rentals for 20 years or so. So it seemed like something most people would not do out of necessity.

[NextG]

16 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

A man can't tell another man their hobbies. The Op will need to find his own hobbies, unless he really likes buying & renting properties, that's Ok too.

 

The reason I brought it up is that it sounds like he has a decent size savings and won't see a return on the rentals for 20 years or so. So it seemed like something most people would not do out of necessity.

What kind of nonsense is that? So you mean stamp collectors don’t tell other stamp collectors? Gym bunnies hide from each other at the gym?

I didn’t ask what hobbies you suggest for him, I asked about your hobbies.

 

As to the OP, he should take the advice of newnative and only buy a place in which he would actually live. I’d go further and suggest with a sea view at a minimum or at least close to the sea. Everything else is ‘ten a penny’ unless you have some specialised knowledge and they definitely do not. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by NextG

[newnative]

Just now, NextG said:

What kind of nonsense is that? So you mean stamp collectors don’t tell other stamp collectors? Gym bunnies hide from each other at the gym?

I didn’t ask what hobbies you suggest for him, I asked about your hobbies. 

    My reaction, too--what nonsense.  I'm happy to tell anyone my hobbies, man, woman, or green Martian.  Strange just the deflection.

[JeffersLos]

I am considering similar.

 

But buying 2 x condos worth 2 million each, one for each of my sons. 

 

Small studios or small 1 br units in high occupancy areas. 

[1FinickyOne]

15 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Do you out them in a real estate agents hands?

mistake #1 - - and you will make many others as you are not experienced in this business... in business, you don't just make money - you have problems too... going cheap is probably mistake #2 - - - did these shirtless guys look like the good tenants you want? 

 

I knew a guy who bought some very cheap properties in the West, in a bad neighborhood... he was so excited until the first time he knocked on the door to collect rent and the entire family chased him down the street w/baseball bats... 

 

Unexpected problems. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by 1FinickyOne

[ujayujay]

Forget it

[ujayujay]

16 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I live off a couple of rental properties, for me its been great. I bought 2 condos for 1.2 million baht each, and get around 8k a month in rent each. Outgoings are small, condo fees 12k a year, any repairs are cheap. I get around a 7% net return, way better than any bank interest or share dividends.

I would avoid places like nirin as they may be cheap to buy, but you get cheap rent and cheap tenants.

For me its a great investment and gives me most of my income to live here. Ignore the negative comments from people who dont actually own any property, just heard stuff from a guy in a bar.

So, 16k THB a Month is the most of your income here and with this you finance any repairs and Fees and and......you are a real successful Businessman

[Martin Brit]

Annuity rates in the UK at the moment (if you know what an annuity is) are 7% plus and guaranteed for life so buying one now is a good deal over investing in property rentals. Renting you have maintenance costs and rental voids. If you want to rent out property my advice is:-

Buy in your home country where you understand the market and the law and rent out. Do not do it in any foreign country.

If you can't afford to do that then you probably can't afford to retire 

[noobexpat]

5 hours ago, Martin Brit said:

Annuity rates in the UK at the moment (if you know what an annuity is) are 7% plus and guaranteed for life so buying one now is a good deal over investing in property rentals. Renting you have maintenance costs and rental voids. If you want to rent out property my advice is:-

Buy in your home country where you understand the market and the law and rent out. Do not do it in any foreign country.

If you can't afford to do that then you probably can't afford to retire 

At what age? escalating at what rate?

[newnative]

8 hours ago, ujayujay said:

So, 16k THB a Month is the most of your income here and with this you finance any repairs and Fees and and......you are a real successful Businessman

    Smug your middle name?   16,000 baht a month, minus 1,000 or 2,000 for condo fees, equals  a net of 15,000 or 14,000 baht.  (I couldn't tell from the post if the yearly 12,000 baht fees mentioned cover one or both condos.)  I would guess he owns his own condo so no monthly outgo for rent for him each month, a big savings on the monthly budget. 

    The condo fees cover condo project repairs and upkeep on the property, he would just need to be responsible for anything in the unit, some of which might be covered with the security deposit if the repairs are due to something the tenant did.  In my experience renting condos, that was the case with most of the repairs--project or tenant responsible.

    In any case, he has some income coming in each month to supplement whatever monthly retirement he gets.  14 or 15,000 baht a month might not seem like much for some, but it certainly helps quite a bit if your monthly retirement is in the 40,000 to 70,000 baht range.  When my partner and I first came to Thailand are monthly income just barely met the 65,000 baht a month immigration requirement--we would have greatly welcomed and extra 14 or 15k.

    I've been communicating with a retiree who only gets American social security, which gives him around 49,000 baht a month.  He tells me he and his partner can live on that but they have nothing left at the end of the month for savings, emergencies, etc.  Had they something similar to Peterw42's setup, that extra rent money could be banked each month to help build up a security nest egg.   Obviously, there are lots of ways to invest your money--and many do multiple ways--but I think it all comes down to what you are comfortable with and what works for you, not some random, cynical commentating poster not in possession of all the particulars.

[ArnieP]

newnative is one of the very best posters here, he’s given great advice within forums re property. Always polite and articulate. People should listen to him.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, ArnieP said:

newnative is one of the very best posters here, he’s given great advice within forums re property. Always polite and articulate. People should listen to him.

    Thank you for your kind comments, although I think not always as polite as I should be--I will try to work harder on that.  I always look forward to Peterw42's take, and others, on real estate as well, and other topics.  I find there are many posters, Sheryl comes to mind, and the late Ubonjoe, who take the time out of their lives to explain and provide information that I'm sometimes in need of, living in Thailand as a foreigner.  I, for one, am quite thankful to have this Forum to call upon.  An added, enjoyable bonus is the often lively, far and wide, sometimes wildly off-topic discussions on just about anything and everything.  Fun.

[Brick Top]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:37 AM, champers said:

Have you got big ears?

Brilliant , I been laughing for 2 days , he must have had or maybe butt teeth 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 10/11/2023 at 5:24 AM, georgegeorgia said:

600,000 baht on a condo in the Nirun

Too expensive, shop around, they're selling cheaper than 600k baht. 

 

Have a look at Flybird condo, similar pricing. 

 

If you're a handyman it's a good idea, you'll get lots of calls from tenants regarding plumbing and electrical issues. 

 

Make sure you get a good deposit.

If you rent to the working girls there may be some fringe benefits for you (Hanky Panky), if so, keep me in the loop, if you are busy I can assist you in this area, I have quite a lot of free time and I live locally. ????

Edited October 12, 2023 by SAFETY FIRST

[jacko45k]

On 10/12/2023 at 4:30 AM, Martin Brit said:

Buy in your home country where you understand the market and the law and rent out. Do not do it in any foreign country.

If you can't afford to do that then you probably can't afford to retire 

That advice seems to contradict the comments of a pal who used to rent out in the UK and has relocated here. The law made renting in the UK a daunting prospect with the way councils prevent one evicting... or at least make it a long drawn out process..... not so here. 

[BritManToo]

On 10/11/2023 at 6:15 PM, Pattaya57 said:

I'm renting out a 2.2 million baht Condo for 7.1% nett (8.7% Gross). Much better than bank interest 

 

Agent also says my 6 million Baht condo will get 5.8% nett (7.2% Gross) as less people can afford it. So maybe buying 2 million baht condo's is the sweet spot for rental investments?

 

How did you do during COVID?

[newnative]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

That advice seems to contradict the comments of a pal who used to rent out in the UK and has relocated here. The law made renting in the UK a daunting prospect with the way councils prevent one evicting... or at least make it a long drawn out process..... not so here. 

    Ditto for the US.  Perhaps some of you have been following the saga of the poor landlord trying to evict an Airbnb tenant in California--not paying rent for months and months.  In some cases landlords are forced to provide moving and relocation costs in order to remove a delinquent tenant--I thin the mentioned tenant is demanding that--what nerve after being so many months delinquent in rent! 

    My sister had a terrible time evicting a female military tenant who went AWOL to Canada with a man she met. (Female, military, good steady job, you'd think a model tenant.) Had to hire a lawyer, show paperwork attempts to try to contact the tenant,  wait a long time for a court date, finally get the court date, the tenant does not show--of course--so, with the tenant not there, the judge sets another court date.  More legal expenses.  Rinse and repeat. This went on for almost a year before my sister was finally allowed by the court to remove the tenant's possessions and re-rent the townhouse.  Meanwhile, during all this time she was having to pay the mortgage, utilities, insurance, taxes, community HOA fees, etc., with no rental income coming in to offset the expenses.  I would never be a landlord in America with things the way they now are.

     

[Pattaya57]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How did you do during COVID?

I wasn't renting out during covid, however I think that's a silly question as what investment/business didn't suffer during Covid. I mean my bank interest lowered to 0.2% (0.45% on 12 month term deposit)