45 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Interesting post worth commenting on.

 

If it's just one of them regular conventional wars, then either move money to safer location/mode when things heat up, stock on some essentials, and log on here to argue and rant about it.

 

Likely in any such war the internet will be the first casualty, as one needs to disrupt the enemies communications.

 

Same for going survivalist/militia style - it's fine for a week or so, max. Guess I'm too lazy to try and survive in a post-apocalyptic world.

 

For those that never served that would be true, but for those that did, likely we learned the skills needed to survive amidst destruction. I did a survival course in the Malayan jungle that gave me to skills to survive in any wild area that has animals to feed on, provided I have some essential tools to do so. Some Japanese soldiers survived in jungles after Japan lost for many years.

 

However, in the event of a major war, would I even want to survive if we didn't win in the end? I suspect not

 

I doubt if the nuclear option will be used, except as a last resort, as it's not called MAD without good reason.

 

 

Internet seems to be working fine in Ukraine, and so far, in Gaza. Other conflicts zone usually the same. Not that easy to block, nowadays, or do so without effecting both sides. Anyways, seems like the more common approach is to use the internet as another front...

 

I kinda doubt stuff you learned decades ago will be fully relevant, or that your could apply it after all them years. Age takes it's toll. For me, I think it would be more of a choice. Guess I'd make an effort if it involved the Mrs. and/or the dog.  Solo, nah.

 

Reading your posts, it's not so clear who 'we' is....

21 minutes ago, sipi said:

Yeah unfortunately.

What do we do?

Like always if used, bend over and hope to die straight away.

23 minutes ago, sipi said:

Yeah unfortunately.

What do we do?

 

Duck and cover?

25 minutes ago, sipi said:

 

What do we do?

Be more educated about issues so we will not buy all the crap our politicians feed us.

Elect better representatives., the trumps, the Bidens, Johnsons , Farages of the world etc did not get there on their own and do the things they do with the enthusiastic support of many of us.

We deserve the leaders we have !  No surprise they are leading us where we are heading. 

If they ever decide to bomb Wong Chumphu, Isaan (where I live), the world is in a bad state. There's literally nothing here.

Edit.. That just reminded me of something. My ex father in law had one arm. He told his family "the day they take me, the world is in a bad shape"

A week later he got conscripted to Europe (WW2)

China, Russia, Iran. 

IMO the Eastern expansion of NATO was a major mistake. 

Right now, there are  two wars. One in Ukraine and another in Israel/Palestine. don't think those think are unconnected. 

There is a scenario where the US makes a move in support of Israel.  and Iran gets involved , at the same time China makes a move on Taiwan. 

Could the US  be involved in Three fronts. It was already spend billions in  Ukraine with little to show for it . Not counting black money 75 billion) or would it need assistance from allies?

If so, then that's how WW3 gets started, Hopefully it will remain conventional. Or best case , not at all,

I reckon Hamas fell head over heels for Israels plan. There's no way Mossad didn't know about the impending terror attacks. Sacrifice a few locals, then that gives them an excuse to take Gaza off the map 

On 10/21/2023 at 9:44 PM, sirineou said:

You are of course right but what would happen to US credibility if it fails to live up to it's promise to defend Taiwan . What would happen to NATO. 

 

Taiwan already possesses a major deterrent. Any attack from the PRC could be met with an attack on Three Gorges Dam. The PRC's own dam holds them hostage.

25 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Taiwan already possesses a major deterrent. Any attack from the PRC could be met with an attack on Three Gorges Dam. The PRC's own dam holds them hostage.

First, who would attack the Three Gorges Dam.The Americans or the Taiwanese ? where have you heard this? I did a search and could not find ant reference to such scenario . But I am really interested, If you could provide me with a link I would appreciate it. 

I don't claim any special knowledge , and don't even know if an attack at the Three Gorges Dam.  would be so catastrophic that would deterge China. I am sure China ia aware of the Three Gorges Dam. and contingency plans  would be made,  . I am also sute both the US and china have war gamed all the different scenarios. 

But I think the Americans might defend Taiwan but certainly will not attack inside China. That would certainly be WW3. After all , China would not be attaching The US they will be attacking Taiwan. 

So that leaves Taiwan. I am sure the first move the Chinese make would be to deny Taiwanese offensive capabilities.  

On 10/23/2023 at 5:01 AM, sipi said:

If there's gonna be a WW3, get it over with. I'm too old to fight and my kids are too young. 

 

Seriously? 

 

Please show me the war rule book where you or your kids are too young to fight or die?

20 minutes ago, sirineou said:

First, who would attack the Three Gorges Dam.The Americans or the Taiwanese ? where have you heard this? I did a search and could not find ant reference to such scenario . But I am really interested, If you could provide me with a link I would appreciate it. 

I don't claim any special knowledge , and don't even know if an attack at the Three Gorges Dam.  would be so catastrophic that would deterge China. I am sure China ia aware of the Three Gorges Dam. and contingency plans  would be made,  . I am also sute both the US and china have war gamed all the different scenarios. 

But I think the Americans might defend Taiwan but certainly will not attack inside China. That would certainly be WW3. After all , China would not be attaching The US they will be attacking Taiwan. 

So that leaves Taiwan. I am sure the first move the Chinese make would be to deny Taiwanese offensive capabilities.  

 

Some sources that believe a Taiwanese attack on Three Gorges is possible.

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/kills-tens-of-millions-taiwans-chilling-message-for-china/news-story/820c97614a7452299f068fac99d71eb6

 

https://www.ispsw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/718_Lin.pdf

 

 

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Some sources that believe a Taiwanese attack on Three Gorges is possible.

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/kills-tens-of-millions-taiwans-chilling-message-for-china/news-story/820c97614a7452299f068fac99d71eb6

 

https://www.ispsw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/718_Lin.pdf

 

 

It seems that you are right  and such scenario exists 

Thank you for those links.  speed read through them, and will read them in more detail later

Though possible  i think it improbable.

Two things make such a thing improbable , distance and time 

First , radar from the Chinese coast reaches Taiwan. so the Chinese would know what is coming 

 as far as I know, Taiwanese misiles have a top range of 1200 km  

https://asiatimes.com/2023/08/taiwans-secret-missile-for-striking-deep-in-china/#:~:text=The first variant has a,with a 1%2C200-kilometer range.

And interestingly enough   the distance from Taiwan to the Three Gorges Dam.is 1262 km

That's what is in the books , It could be more and it could be less. also my information might be dated. But certainly on the outside range. 

And a top speed (Not average) of 3701 km per hour . Average speed is a bit lower because the misil has to accelerate to that speed. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yun_Feng

So that would put the bird in the air for a bit over 20 minutes , plenty of time IMO for the chinese to deal with it . And even if they did not , You can bet that if the Taiwanese are targeting civilian installations with the potential to kill  a couple of million people, the Chinese would respond in

kind x10  and lay waste to Taiwan. 

So the concept of "If you take a shot of the king, you better make sure you kill him" comes into play. and though a hit on the three gorges dam would hurt the king. it would certainly not kill him or prevent him from killing you. 

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

 

Seriously? 

 

Please show me the war rule book where you or your kids are too young to fight or die?

13.

Edit.. I didn't say he was too young to die. I said he's too young to fight.

As far as a book goes, no idea. Green eggs and ham?

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

First, who would attack the Three Gorges Dam.The Americans or the Taiwanese ? where have you heard this? I did a search and could not find ant reference to such scenario . But I am really interested, If you could provide me with a link I would appreciate it. 

I don't claim any special knowledge , and don't even know if an attack at the Three Gorges Dam.  would be so catastrophic that would deterge China. I am sure China ia aware of the Three Gorges Dam. and contingency plans  would be made,  . I am also sute both the US and china have war gamed all the different scenarios. 

But I think the Americans might defend Taiwan but certainly will not attack inside China. That would certainly be WW3. After all , China would not be attaching The US they will be attacking Taiwan. 

So that leaves Taiwan. I am sure the first move the Chinese make would be to deny Taiwanese offensive capabilities.  

 

The sky is falling.

 

Reminds me that as a child, we had this family friend who was completely bald. I've asked him, as kids to, how come he's bald. He said it's because he worries too much. Worry about what? Getting bald. Stumped me. 

 

Some years later I read 'The Little Prince' (maybe he lifted it from there).

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Like always if used, bend over and hope to die straight away.

 

Umm....lubing first might help.

Or so I'm told.

17 hours ago, sipi said:

I reckon Hamas fell head over heels for Israels plan. There's no way Mossad didn't know about the impending terror attacks. Sacrifice a few locals, then that gives them an excuse to take Gaza off the map 

IMO Hamas planned on the israeli response as a means to get the world's attention, and on that it has succeeded. I also think they didn't expect the prolonged bombing campaign, as usually israel has invaded shortly after, as in 2014, and they were ready for them to do so again.

 

I agree that netanyahu has been waiting for an excuse to destroy Gaza permanently, and Hamas has given him that excuse. Once Gaza has gone, IMO it'll be the West Bank, and they are already acting there with massive arrests in preparation.

19 hours ago, sirineou said:

Be more educated about issues so we will not buy all the crap our politicians feed us.

Elect better representatives., the trumps, the Bidens, Johnsons , Farages of the world etc did not get there on their own and do the things they do with the enthusiastic support of many of us.

We deserve the leaders we have !  No surprise they are leading us where we are heading. 

IMO as long as we have the media we have, which thrives on gutter junk stories, no decent person will even attempt to become a politician, let alone POTUS.

Stop the media scandal fest and good people MIGHT give it a try.

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

So that leaves Taiwan. I am sure the first move the Chinese make would be to deny Taiwanese offensive capabilities.  

I am sure they expect that and are ready.

If they have hypersonic missiles they can take out any ship sent against them. Without ships an invasion will not succeed.

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO as long as we have the media we have, which thrives on gutter junk stories, no decent person will even attempt to become a politician, let alone POTUS.

Stop the media scandal fest and good people MIGHT give it a try.

What we need again is the citizen legislator. Go to Washington , or equivalent seat of power , serve your term and then go back home. And for that we need term limits. 

  First of all, they would make rational decisions to mitigate and resolve the particular issue in front of them, rather than make the politically correct compromise to work at the problem while maintaining their power. Very few people give up power   voluntarily. It is human nature and is genetically ingrained in us.We need Term limits. 

  Second, if they will be going back to the real world in a few years and have to live with the consequences they would make better decisions. 

     If you crapped all over your backyard, would you want to go live there? 

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

What we need again is the citizen legislator. Go to Washington , or equivalent seat of power , serve your term and then go back home. And for that we need term limits. 

  First of all, they would make rational decisions to mitigate and resolve the particular issue in front of them, rather than make the politically correct compromise to work at the problem while maintaining their power. Very few people give up power   voluntarily. It is human nature and is genetically ingrained in us.We need Term limits. 

  Second, if they will be going back to the real world in a few years and have to live with the consequences they would make better decisions. 

     If you crapped all over your backyard, would you want to go live there? 

I have always understood that is what happened at the start of the American project. Men went to Washington for a while, then went back to their real lives.

Unfortunately we now have career politicians that go straight from school/ uni into political careers and never have a real job or associate with normal ( non political ) people. They live in a bubble divorced from real life, which is why they can send so many boys off to die in BS wars ( WMDs anyone? ).

 

That doesn't just apply to the US. The career politician is everywhere, ruining ordinary people's lives with abandon, in pursuit of some inane agenda.

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

It seems that you are right  and such scenario exists 

Thank you for those links.  speed read through them, and will read them in more detail later

Though possible  i think it improbable.

Two things make such a thing improbable , distance and time 

First , radar from the Chinese coast reaches Taiwan. so the Chinese would know what is coming 

 as far as I know, Taiwanese misiles have a top range of 1200 km  

https://asiatimes.com/2023/08/taiwans-secret-missile-for-striking-deep-in-china/#:~:text=The first variant has a,with a 1%2C200-kilometer range.

And interestingly enough   the distance from Taiwan to the Three Gorges Dam.is 1262 km

That's what is in the books , It could be more and it could be less. also my information might be dated. But certainly on the outside range. 

And a top speed (Not average) of 3701 km per hour . Average speed is a bit lower because the misil has to accelerate to that speed. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yun_Feng

So that would put the bird in the air for a bit over 20 minutes , plenty of time IMO for the chinese to deal with it . And even if they did not , You can bet that if the Taiwanese are targeting civilian installations with the potential to kill  a couple of million people, the Chinese would respond in

kind x10  and lay waste to Taiwan. 

So the concept of "If you take a shot of the king, you better make sure you kill him" comes into play. and though a hit on the three gorges dam would hurt the king. it would certainly not kill him or prevent him from killing you. 

Is it better to die fighting than become slaves to Xi? I know what I'd prefer, though it's doubtful I'll be put to the test in what remains of my life. I did serve, so I did put my boots in harms way, voluntarily.

 

If the Taiwanese have hypersonic missiles, I understand there is no defense against them. Perhaps not the Gorge, which I doubt anyway, but against ships needed to invade.

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is it better to die fighting than become slaves to Xi?

Just an observation , I am not making any value judgments. 

But isn't funny that the Chinese people say  the same, only they replace the " Xi" to corporate

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If the Taiwanese have hypersonic missiles, I understand there is no defense against them. Perhaps not the Gorge, which I doubt anyway, but against ships needed to invade.

I am no militer tactician. You having been in the military , I am sure know more about these things than I do.  But I think that any supperior system of warfare can be defeated by a large number of targets. Also according to reputable sources , the Chinese have Hypersonic missiles and the US do not.  So if the US does not have it it is safe to assume that Taiwan does not have it. 

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/hypersonic-missiles-america-military-behind-936a3128

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO as long as we have the media we have, which thrives on gutter junk stories, no decent person will even attempt to become a politician, let alone POTUS.

Stop the media scandal fest and good people MIGHT give it a try.

Yes, you are correct, any media that does not advocate the eradication of the Jews is not to be trusted. 

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, you are correct, any media that does not advocate the eradication of the Jews is not to be trusted. 

Isn't a bit early to me drinking? 😂

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO Hamas planned on the israeli response as a means to get the world's attention, and on that it has succeeded. I also think they didn't expect the prolonged bombing campaign, as usually israel has invaded shortly after, as in 2014, and they were ready for them to do so again.

 

I agree that netanyahu has been waiting for an excuse to destroy Gaza permanently, and Hamas has given him that excuse. Once Gaza has gone, IMO it'll be the West Bank, and they are already acting there with massive arrests in preparation.

if Israel destroys Gaza permanently and drives the Palestinians out of the West Bank, they will not have a single day of peace until the Second Coming, if that ever happens.
 

Unless the first JC was from a race an extra terrestrials who are still watching and maybe wanting to prevent an annihilation of Earth. They might then send a 2nd JC to try and save the world again.

21 hours ago, sirineou said:

China, Russia, Iran. 

IMO the Eastern expansion of NATO was a major mistake. 

Right now, there are  two wars. One in Ukraine and another in Israel/Palestine. don't think those think are unconnected. 

There is a scenario where the US makes a move in support of Israel.  and Iran gets involved , at the same time China makes a move on Taiwan. 

Could the US  be involved in Three fronts. It was already spend billions in  Ukraine with little to show for it . Not counting black money 75 billion) or would it need assistance from allies?

If so, then that's how WW3 gets started, Hopefully it will remain conventional. Or best case , not at all,

If a war breaks out between US and China, it would be US that starts it. All talk of war comes from the US side, from their military and politicians. I don’t hear of any non-West politician calling the U.S./UK/Australia etc any axis of evil. Other than an odd border skirmish now and then with India or shooting water cannons at some Filipino fishing vessel, China hasn’t engaged in significant hostile or provocative actions. They don’t have hundreds of military bases and military personnel stationed around the world where they have no business being there. BUT they are intent on defending their own sovereignty and interests.

 

In the Chinese mind, Taiwan is part of China. How else was CKS and his army able to flee if it was an independent country or a part of Japan? China will not invade Taiwan, until it is forced to do so by the U.S. And I fear that that’s exactly what the latter is trying to do. As one senator put it, we will support Ukraine to the last Ukrainian. Just substitute Ukraine for Taiwan - same same.

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

If a war breaks out between US and China, it would be US that starts it. All talk of war comes from the US side, from their military and politicians. I don’t hear of any non-West politician calling the U.S./UK/Australia etc any axis of evil. Other than an odd border skirmish now and then with India or shooting water cannons at some Filipino fishing vessel, China hasn’t engaged in significant hostile or provocative actions. They don’t have hundreds of military bases and military personnel stationed around the world where they have no business being there. BUT they are intent on defending their own sovereignty and interests.

 

In the Chinese mind, Taiwan is part of China. How else was CKS and his army able to flee if it was an independent country or a part of Japan? China will not invade Taiwan, until it is forced to do so by the U.S. And I fear that that’s exactly what the latter is trying to do. As one senator put it, we will support Ukraine to the last Ukrainian. Just substitute Ukraine for Taiwan - same same.

Can I borrow it...........

 

On 10/21/2023 at 9:44 PM, sirineou said:

You are of course right but what would happen to US credibility if it fails to live up to its promise to defend Taiwan . What would happen to NATO. 

Taiwan is not a member of NATO so US/NATO should only get actively involved if China attacks a country that is a member of NATO.

6 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Taiwan is not a member of NATO so US/NATO should only get actively involved if China attacks a country that is a member of NATO.

By that I meant if the US promised to come to the aid of Taiwan, and then did not, How would NATO countries feel about the promise the US made to come to their aid? Might they start having doubts? 

7 hours ago, transam said:

Can I borrow it...........

 

It wasn’t a crystal ball I looked into, just common sense and a knowledge of history, both of which that ahem, some posters possess very little of.