Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

[Screaming]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Mexico, and many other places are far more welcoming and far more gracious with retirees, than Thailand is. Their governments have enough vision to see the value, and are infinitely less arrogant, myopic and xenophobic. 

So be it but the Mexican women are built like pears. Who needs that?

[Paradise Pete]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:22 AM, Lacessit said:

I don't think they are stupid, just unable to uproot themselves. My guess is people who retire outside their homeland are far more likely to have travelled extensively. 

 

I think a lot of it is ignorance. Many Americans simply don't know much about the rest of the world. Growing up, I didn't. Then I got a job outside of the US and my eyes were opened.

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, Screaming said:

So be it but the Mexican women are built like pears. Who needs that?

True. Many of us prefer Thai women, some of whom are just stunning. And though some are getting bigger than in the past, there are still plenty under 50kg., thankfully. 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, Paradise Pete said:

 

I think a lot of it is ignorance. Many Americans simply don't know much about the rest of the world. Growing up, I didn't. Then I got a job outside of the US and my eyes were opened.

Many Americans have never had a passport, much less have ever left the country. 

[swm59nj]

Because possibly they are not basing their decisions on only income.  And have no interest moving to another country. 
 

[jaywalker2]

4 hours ago, charleskerins said:

This fellow is pretty confused  

"Who says they live in a car? You?

 

There are dirt cheap places in USA, people get free medicare and they don't have to beg for a visa in Laos."   C

There are no more cheap places in the U.S. I have a friend who was looking for a tenant for a prefab house in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, population 6000. She was asing $775 for 80 sq meters, which she claimed made it a bargain because the going market rate was $1000. And this was a couple of years ago. The median rent for all of the US surpassed $2000 this year. So, yeah, more and more people are living in RV's, vans, their cars, etc. There was a book called Nomadland (also a movie) that chronicled the lives of some of these people.

[Sigmund]

All depends on the situation. Anybody who is totally broke in the west with a disgraceful pension or no pension like many in the US, UK, Australia, would probably be in a similar dramatic situation in Thailand and burden the system.

 

European retirees from rich countries like Germany, France, Switzerland or other nordic countries on the other hand mostly have great pensions, great healthcare valid worldwide and usually are the Snowbirds who come here only in winter.

 

The Thais think that the farang who wants to say in Thailand full time, usually did not make it back home.

[tomazbodner]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:06 PM, Jingthing said:

So back to the question:

Do you think (most) financially struggling western retirees are stupid for not retiring abroad?

Can you imagine old geezers who only speak their native tongue of some obscure language that nobody outside their village understand. They couldn't even communicate with staff at the airport they would need to transit through to get to their retirement destination country. They are now too old to learn new language. They know nobody in any other country. And they are completely anchored into the culture and habits of their homeland. Could they survive in a cheap country? Doubt it.

 

Alternatively, imagine someone living in a very safe and organized country, like say Japan, where foreign languages are also an issue but people in other countries learn their language, so that's less of a problem. But can someone used to living in a developed World accept the chaos of the developing World that is inherently cheaper to live at, but at the cost of the very things that made his or her homeland a developed country? If they are adventurous, maybe, but large part of the population isn't at that age.

 

And finally - moving to another country not only takes courage, but is also a significant financial burden, and if these people are already struggling where they know how to navigate through life, chances of them scrubbing together savings to move to a foreign land and live any better life, or heck, even same quality of life, would be very unlikely.

 

That's my opinion, of course. I'm sure there are people who live for adventure or maybe have significant enough savings to support their move abroad, or are simply lucky to find a perfect destination for them and all just works out wonderfully. I'd just guess that would be a minority.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Llife abroad is not always that better then the US. It's more the life in the US that is going from bad to worse. Trillions are spent by the Biden Top Guns to encourage and run wars abroad but what is done for the homeless, the pensions, the healtcare domestically ? Nothing.

[NHBOB]

There is definitely a mindset in the US  to live and die within 20 miles of where you were born.  Call that good or bad, it's simply the way it is.  Those with specific job skills and education can and will move for economic reasons.  And many cannot even conceive of the concept.  This thread has predictably veered off into crazy land, but to call someone stupid for not uprooting their lives and moving to another country only invites the craziness.  Everyone is different. Some people have an entrepreneurial spirit and start their own businesses, some are happy to work 40 years in the corporate world (until you position gets eliminated, that is).  Some people rock climb, some play golf.  Does that make one group stupid?

[NHBOB]

Many years ago a friend of mine sold RV's in the greater Seattle area.  He said it was very common for a retired couple to sell the house, buy a monster rv and travel the country to live their dreams!!  A year later they would pull back into the RV dealership and sell it back.  Being rootless wasn't all it was made out to be.

[observer90210]

There may also be a problem with the many who are not so bad off on arriving in Thailand, but end up in loosing it by going wild with the good exchange rate.

[carnifex]

14 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Maybe this fact explains the sick phenomena of Donald Trump, MAGA, and QAnon.

56% of US adults have a valid passport.  That “60 or 70%” range was pulled straight out of the poster’s butt.

 

American passport holders

 

I’m not a defender of US policies, and certainly not a defender of Trump, but this issue of the US not having a high number of passport holders is much more complicated than the raw number would indicate.  The US is a large country with much to see and do. Its land area is about the same as Europe and twice that of the EU. Americans can also travel to places like Hawaii and Puerto Rico without a passport, and could also do so to Mexico and Canada prior to 2001.  As I said, it’s a more complicated issue, but complicated explanations don’t usually make their way into political talking points.

 

I would be curious to see the percentage of Europeans who have traveled outside of Europe for the sake of comparison.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Can you imagine old geezers who only speak their native tongue of some obscure language that nobody outside their village understand. They couldn't even communicate with staff at the airport they would need to transit through to get to their retirement destination country. They are now too old to learn new language. They know nobody in any other country. And they are completely anchored into the culture and habits of their homeland. Could they survive in a cheap country? Doubt it.

 

Alternatively, imagine someone living in a very safe and organized country, like say Japan, where foreign languages are also an issue but people in other countries learn their language, so that's less of a problem. But can someone used to living in a developed World accept the chaos of the developing World that is inherently cheaper to live at, but at the cost of the very things that made his or her homeland a developed country? If they are adventurous, maybe, but large part of the population isn't at that age.

 

And finally - moving to another country not only takes courage, but is also a significant financial burden, and if these people are already struggling where they know how to navigate through life, chances of them scrubbing together savings to move to a foreign land and live any better life, or heck, even same quality of life, would be very unlikely.

 

That's my opinion, of course. I'm sure there are people who live for adventure or maybe have significant enough savings to support their move abroad, or are simply lucky to find a perfect destination for them and all just works out wonderfully. I'd just guess that would be a minority.

I find your post weird.

It's parroting the false myth that you need to be richer than average to retire abroad.

Being rich is always good anywhere, but the overwhelmingly primary motivator for retirement abroad for most people that retire abroad is economics.

Obviously you need some money to get started and have an emergency buffer and obviously not everyone has that.

But you need some money to fit out a vehicle to live in as well. 

 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, NHBOB said:

Many years ago a friend of mine sold RV's in the greater Seattle area.  He said it was very common for a retired couple to sell the house, buy a monster rv and travel the country to live their dreams!!  A year later they would pull back into the RV dealership and sell it back.  Being rootless wasn't all it was made out to be.

That sounds like an old story because typically now people that do such a thing could never afford to live back in a place like Seattle once they sold. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, NHBOB said:

There is definitely a mindset in the US  to live and die within 20 miles of where you were born.  Call that good or bad, it's simply the way it is.  Those with specific job skills and education can and will move for economic reasons.  And many cannot even conceive of the concept.  This thread has predictably veered off into crazy land, but to call someone stupid for not uprooting their lives and moving to another country only invites the craziness.  Everyone is different. Some people have an entrepreneurial spirit and start their own businesses, some are happy to work 40 years in the corporate world (until you position gets eliminated, that is).  Some people rock climb, some play golf.  Does that make one group stupid?

Don't be so literal.

Using the word stupid was a way to get the juices flowing to stimulate a lively conversation on the topic.

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, Screaming said:

So be it but the Mexican women are built like pears. Who needs that?

Who needs that? That's what the Mexican women are saying about the likes of you. 

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Llife abroad is not always that better then the US. It's more the life in the US that is going from bad to worse. Trillions are spent by the Biden Top Guns to encourage and run wars abroad but what is done for the homeless, the pensions, the healtcare domestically ? Nothing.

That's hilarious! So you think the other party wants to help those things? They want to cut everything except crusades against drag queens. 

Back to the topic, of course life abroad is not always better.

But if you've only got a budget of for example 300 dollars for rent in the U.S. and such prices don't exist in the U.S., then life abroad where you can get a decent place for that, is going to better for those than can manage the move.

 

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, Sigmund said:

All depends on the situation. Anybody who is totally broke in the west with a disgraceful pension or no pension like many in the US, UK, Australia, would probably be in a similar dramatic situation in Thailand and burden the system.

 

European retirees from rich countries like Germany, France, Switzerland or other nordic countries on the other hand mostly have great pensions, great healthcare valid worldwide and usually are the Snowbirds who come here only in winter.

 

The Thais think that the farang who wants to say in Thailand full time, usually did not make it back home.

Who cares what the Thais think? 

Except for immigration officers, of course.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

There are no more cheap places in the U.S. I have a friend who was looking for a tenant for a prefab house in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, population 6000. She was asing $775 for 80 sq meters, which she claimed made it a bargain because the going market rate was $1000. And this was a couple of years ago. The median rent for all of the US surpassed $2000 this year. So, yeah, more and more people are living in RV's, vans, their cars, etc. There was a book called Nomadland (also a movie) that chronicled the lives of some of these people.

Yep. The rent is too damn high there on steroids now.

Inflation may be waning now, but it's not as if prices are going down except in super inflated areas that almost nobody care afford anyway.

[mania]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It is far easier to discern horrific and ignorant foreign policy from a distance than it is when you're at home. Alot of Americans that I talk to in the US don't really have a clue, they don't see how ridiculously expensive things are, they don't see how the quality of life is declining, they're really blind to a lot of that, but once you get away from it and you see what life is like elsewhere, you perceive the truth and it's pretty easy to be critical at that point. America is broken. 

Sad but true

Also due to the fact the US News is basically censored

Only when we moved to Thailand & started watching Al Jazeera did we see a more balanced news that was not trying to hide things or at least gave a better non-biased report of things

 

About being blind to decline most have no choice & yes many are blind due to having their noses so firmly attached to the grindstone to keep making all the payments they have on all the toys they own...Sad really

 

We actually are living back in the US now but we are not "normal" Americans. We own outright do not watch TV nor get excited about politics / take sides as both wings are from the same bird. We also still live in Thailand 3 months a year

 

But yes we also feel America is in decline now even for folks like us as we see less & less maintenance being done on infrastructure & we sure notice that. Here in Thailand they are developing & for now at least labor is still cheap enough that they can develop & keep what they have maintained & clean.

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Mexico, and many other places are far more welcoming and far more gracious with retirees, than Thailand is. Their governments have enough vision to see the value, and are infinitely less arrogant, myopic and xenophobic. 

That's interesting. 

I've been there on long visits but haven't lived there as an expat, so I don't know.

Their residence offer is massively better than Thailand's though, but you need a relatively large income or savings bucket to get into the system.

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

You called no one stupid, you asked it they were doing something stupid. 

 

Plenty of smart people do stupid things, and visa-versa. 

It was a mere rhetorical device. People are too literal. 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, carnifex said:

56% of US adults have a valid passport.  That “60 or 70%” range was pulled straight out of the poster’s butt.

 

American passport holders

 

I’m not a defender of US policies, and certainly not a defender of Trump, but this issue of the US not having a high number of passport holders is much more complicated than the raw number would indicate.  The US is a large country with much to see and do. Its land area is about the same as Europe and twice that of the EU. Americans can also travel to places like Hawaii and Puerto Rico without a passport, and could also do so to Mexico and Canada prior to 2001.  As I said, it’s a more complicated issue, but complicated explanations don’t usually make their way into political talking points.

 

I would be curious to see the percentage of Europeans who have traveled outside of Europe for the sake of comparison.

And up until a few years ago, no need for a passport to visit Mexico or Canada. 

 

Not much reason to actually leave the US. 

[transam]

12 hours ago, WhatMeWorry said:

And you sound rather arrogant, I guess living in Issan will do that to you.

Me, arrogant, hmmmm, perhaps, but if I am, I would be where ever I lived......😉

 

Isaan, oh, you live or lived there, how delightful for you............😁

[nauseus]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There have been a few complaints about using the word stupid.

Everyone is stupid in some ways.

The word clearly helped stimulate the discussion here.

Speak for yerself. 🤣

[BusyB]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:28 AM, The Cyclist said:

This, for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons have nothing to do with money or a lack thereof.

 

Sure, they are the people who can identify that their homeland is crap or heading to the dogs.

 

It's called experience, and if you do not have any experience, you will not know any different.

 

Sad comment.

 

Many have a good life in very affluent and comfortable homelands. But they also enjoy new experiences and learning and have the wherewithal and initiative to be able to expand their horizons successfully and happily.

 

They tend not to hang out with the negative sorts both at home and in LOS or anywhere else. I think it's called something like confirmation bias - AKA birds of a feather.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[BusyB]

16 hours ago, Sigmund said:

All depends on the situation. Anybody who is totally broke in the west with a disgraceful pension or no pension like many in the US, UK, Australia, would probably be in a similar dramatic situation in Thailand and burden the system.

 

European retirees from rich countries like Germany, France, Switzerland or other nordic countries on the other hand mostly have great pensions, great healthcare valid worldwide and usually are the Snowbirds who come here only in winter.

 

The Thais think that the farang who wants to say in Thailand full time, usually did not make it back home.

 

Well said. And based on my experience I think there's more than a smidgeon of truth in that last sentence.

 

But what ho! They need us more than we need them 555.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BusyB

[ChrisKC]

The answer to the direct question posed is NO!

 

Some people would be stupid if they did retire overseas without properly understanding what a complete change surroundings would actually be like. For many, habits of a lifetime might not fit well with the difference in culture, language and real life situations that have to be managed.

 

Any amount of research will only provide a means of personal perception or an image that may come crashing down from sooner than expected experiences.

 

It's a step too far for most people and I think they would be scared of the unknown, compared with what they know of their current circumstances - "better the devil they know..."

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

Sad comment.

 

Many have a good life in very affluent and comfortable homelands. But they also enjoy new experiences and learning and have the wherewithal and initiative to be able to expand their horizons successfully and happily.

 

They tend not to hang out with the negative sorts both at home and in LOS or anywhere else. I think it's called something like confirmation bias - AKA birds of a feather.

I'm from California, went back four times a year, and felt like kissing the ground when I got off the plane. I go once a year now and dread it.