Change in the tax law does target expats living in Thailand and extends reporting obligations

[Mike Lister]

17 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Lucky you but very narrow minded and self absorbed, how about a bit of thought for those long established expats with family and houses already contributing to the Thai economy by living here and purchasing everything from food thru' to motor cars etc. In effect if it goes ahead and is applied to money coming into the country for daily living etc, it will amount to double taxing all expats. 

It's way too early to conclude that will happen and there's no reason any rational logical person thinks it will. Perhaps reign in your negativity a little, you'll live longer.

[lordgrinz]

Maybe the best course of action is to bring in (before the end of 2024) enough to live on until mid-2025, by then we will know all the details, and can make a decision on the future. In either case I wouldn't want to be dealing with that first year of these new tax laws, let the guinea pigs take the plunge first. 

[Captain Monday]

38 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Lucky but very narrow minded and self absorbed, how about a bit of thought for those long established expats with family and houses already contributing to the Thai economy by living here and purchasing everything from food thru' to motor cars etc. In effect if it goes ahead and is applied to money coming into the country for daily living etc, it will amount to double taxing all expats. 

I knew somebody would point out my self-absorbtion and parochialism. 

Is your home country not party to a tax equilization treaty with  Kingdom of Thailand?

[Misty]

10 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

This was a rather pointless video. Just saying that paying Thai tax on only $100,000 out of your income of $1 million is a good deal because it is only an effective tax rate of 2% is not helpful to most people here, who actually live in Thailand and don't have $1 million a year. I wasted over 10 minutes watching this garbage to see, if he had anything useful to say to but he didn't.

 

Thank you for the review - saves me from watching it.  Nomad Capitalist's business model appears to be repackaging online information and selling it as top dollar "advice".

[Klonko]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

So, since @NONG CHOK lives off savings he needs only a proof that these savings were earned while he wasn't tax resident in Thailand. If he doesn't transfer interest earned, that is.

I haven't seen any information with respect to the method (LIFO, FIFO, average) Thai RD will apply. May be even Thai RD does not know, or local RD officer will decide situatively. 

[Jeffrey346]

8 hours ago, Guavaman said:

 

If Jeffrey is not bullsh!tting, and his wife is a lawyer working for the RD, everything that anyone writes on this thread is feeding into the RD. 

 

I suggest that we refrain from discussing strategies & tactics for avoiding income tax here because this thread has been compromised.  Sleeping with the enemy.

You think I'm a Spy for the RD. Your just a paranoid a***ole

[The Cyclist]

9 hours ago, stat said:

Utter nightmare! They will never understand a crs report and why you have so much money and spend so little of it... Setting my sails for the Philippines, however not sure if I will like it there.

 

 

Comedy Gold

 

Your setting your sails for the Philippines which you might not even like due to a clear as mud announcement and the follow on doom-monger speculation.

 

Hollleeee Christ

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

Comedy Gold

 

Your setting your sails for the Philippines which you might not even like due to a clear as mud announcement and the follow on doom-monger speculation.

 

Hollleeee Christ

Oh come on now, the PI is ideal, unless you like good food, safety, decent roads and a good standard of health care. Oh yes, the hurricane season can be interesting too.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I don't think they care about foreigners, this law is for Thais getting money from abroad. 

 

Nooooooooooooooooo

 

It is nothing to do with closing a loophole that rich Thais have exploited for years to avoid paying tax.

 

It is a Thai Government directive to the RD to hound expats on already taxed pensions to get them to flee Thailand

 

( Heavy sarcasm may have been deployed above )

 

Take note 

 

@stat

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Oh come on now, the PI is ideal, unless you like good food, safety, decent roads and a good standard of health care. Oh yes, the hurricane season can be interesting too.

 

I dont mind PI, have a couple of mates / old work mates that live there and been many times. I don't think I would like to live there full time and I certainly wouldn't be booking a ticket to escape Thailand over a clear as mud directive, where I might have to pay some tax and / or fill in an annual tax return.

 

Or clarity  might be forthcoming and it may turn out that I need to do neither  

[DaRoadrunner]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:48 AM, MangoKorat said:

I presume that you would be firstly required to declare your income under the new laws. You would then not be able to show any tax paid in the UK.  They may possibly accept a letter from the UK Revenue stating that you are not required to pay tax on it. However, an article I read by a 'Tax Accountant' in Thailand suggested that the Double Taxation Agreement between the UK and Thailand did not include such matters and that tax would be payable on pension income that was over the Thai tax threshold.

It won't be payable because we won't be here! Goodbye Thailand.

[NanLaew]

On 11/6/2023 at 5:58 AM, hotchilli said:

Hope so... My government pension starts in 2025 so I have a year to go for this to settle.

If during 2024 this is set in stone I will be moving out of Thailand after 15 years here.

 

What's your tax status in the country that you will be remitting your funds from?

On 11/6/2023 at 6:32 AM, HappyExpat57 said:

On 11/6/2023 at 6:30 AM, MangoKorat said:

As I understand it, and I may well be wrong - double tax agreements don't prevent you from being taxed in Thailand.  My understanding is that if the amount of tax you paid in your home country is less than you would have paid in Thailand - you will have to pay the difference.  That might not be the case in many situations but one group that may well be affected is those on a pension.  For example, if your UK pension is less than the tax threshold - which many are, you don't pay tax on it.  However, even the basic UK pension is over the Thai tax threshold and therefore, according to my understanding and what I've read, it will be taxable.

 

I placed the laugh emoticon - I have trouble imagining how they will ever figure that out!

 

They won't have to. There's no tax authority ever going to chase after the difference on personal income tax rates. The money will either be taxed at source thus Thai tax-exempt or not taxed at source and thus liable for Thai income tax.

 

It is up to the individual to make the decision on where they want to pay tax. The individual is free to select the domicile that attracts the lowest personal income tax rate without breaking any laws anywhere.

[kimamey]

On 11/6/2023 at 5:40 AM, alanrchase said:

 

You may want to read this first. Depending on your nationality it may or may not affect you.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tax-resident-nowhere-kathleen-di-paolo?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_mobile_web&utm_campaign=copy

I was going to make a comment about this, but this article is a lot more knowledgeable than I am. It's worth remembering that tax officials do it as a job so they may well be better at it than you are unless you are in employment that requires expertise in the area of taxation.

 

Not living anywhere has many implications as shown in the article. In my case, until Covid I was spending time here and the UK on a roughly 3 months basis but slightly over the 180 days in the UK. Now I still have to pay tax on the rent I receive, my small private pension (I have a larger one to take soon) and my state pension. At the moment I'm still able to use the NHS, although that may change, but as I'm married to a government worker I get state healthcare here anyway. My pension doesn't get increased and I'm losing, I think, about £940 a year, before tax. That will increase in April with the next rise. I still have a UK driving licence and car, but it's getting more difficult, and expensive in regards to insurance. It might be cheaper to pay tax here as I don't have a great income, but I'm not sure it's worth it for the small saving

 

If it looks easy to just move around to avoid tax, check you aren't missing something first.

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, kimamey said:

I was going to make a comment about this, but this article is a lot more knowledgeable than I am. It's worth remembering that tax officials do it as a job so they may well be better at it than you are unless you are in employment that requires expertise in the area of taxation.

 

Not living anywhere has many implications as shown in the article. In my case, until Covid I was spending time here and the UK on a roughly 3 months basis but slightly over the 180 days in the UK. Now I still have to pay tax on the rent I receive, my small private pension (I have a larger one to take soon) and my state pension. At the moment I'm still able to use the NHS, although that may change, but as I'm married to a government worker I get state healthcare here anyway. My pension doesn't get increased and I'm losing, I think, about £940 a year, before tax. That will increase in April with the next rise. I still have a UK driving licence and car, but it's getting more difficult, and expensive in regards to insurance. It might be cheaper to pay tax here as I don't have a great income, but I'm not sure it's worth it for the small saving

 

If it looks easy to just move around to avoid tax, check you aren't missing something first.

I did this for three years but not out of choice, my work just made it that way. I got sick of hotels, planes and not having a base, it sounds glamorous but it's hard work.

[10baht]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:41 AM, Homburg said:

he way that I would expect this to work is that you compute total Thai taxes due on your gross income, you are then allowed to deduct from that total any taxes already suffered, leaving a net amount payable in Thailand.  Please note that if the taxes paid elsewhere exceed the Thai taxes then no refund is due!

How do they know your gross income?

[Ralf001]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:56 AM, Srikcir said:

 

 

 What do foreign residents get other than a privilege to reside In Thailand for 180 days annually in Thailand?

 

The government covers my medical bills !

[salavan]

3 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

Maybe the best course of action is to bring in (before the end of 2024) enough to live on until mid-2025, by then we will know all the details, and can make a decision on the future. In either case I wouldn't want to be dealing with that first year of these new tax laws, let the guinea pigs take the plunge first. 

You mean bring it in before the end of 2023 because that's when it starts

[lordgrinz]

53 minutes ago, salavan said:

You mean bring it in before the end of 2023 because that's when it starts

Yeah my mistake, oops....2023.

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

The government covers my medical bills !

Topic is related to proposed taxation of foreign resident's foreign income. And my comment is related to what Thai privileges comes with that proposed taxation. 

Seems you're getting free government medical coverage under a different premise. Maybe you can explain further.

[10baht]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:26 AM, Mike Lister said:

These things mean that the average expat pensioner must earn over 400k baht, before they begin to pay tax at 5%.

And that (400k baht) is just ONE stock trade.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, 10baht said:

And that (400k baht) is just ONE stock trade.

Not for the "average expat pensioner", it isn't!

[Sheryl]

The  new regulation (regulation, not law - the tax law has nto been amended) does not "target" foreigners. It applies equally to everyone  resident in Thailand 180 days in a year or more and from releases by the Revenue department is primarily aimed ("targeted to" if you will) wealthy Thais.

 

Foreigners are not exempt purely by being foreigners, but that is hardly the same as being targeted.

 

The new rule does not alter reporting requirements in the least. There are no new reporting requirements.

 

The only thing the new regulation does, is remove a prior clause that made otherwise taxable income brought into Thailand from abroad non-taxable if not brought in during the year it was earned.

 

It is worth noting that foreigners who were having old age pensions directly remitted to Thailand have in some cases (depending on type of pension and terms of the relevant Tax Treaty with Thailand) always owed tax on it, though most have not been filing tax returns or paying.  Their situation remains unchanged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Artisi]

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

I knew somebody would point out my self-absorbtion and parochialism. 

Is your home country not party to a tax equilization treaty with  Kingdom of Thailand?

Is yours? 

[10baht]

43 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Not for the "average expat pensioner", it isn't!

You can be a deaf, dumb, and blind homeless beggar and do it.  Avg expat pensioner has nothing to do with it.

[Thailand]

39 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The  new regulation (regulation, not law - the tax law has nto been amended) does not "target" foreigners. It applies equally to everyone  resident in Thailand 180 days in a year or more and from releases by the Revenue department is primarily aimed ("targeted to" if you will) wealthy Thais.

 

Foreigners are not exempt purely by being foreigners, but that is hardly the same as being targeted.

 

The new rule does not alter reporting requirements in the least. There are no new reporting requirements.

 

The only thing the new regulation does, is remove a prior clause that made otherwise taxable income brought into Thailand from abroad non-taxable if not brought in during the year it was earned.

 

It is worth noting that foreigners who were having old age pensions directly remitted to Thailand have in some cases (depending on type of pension and terms of the relevant Tax Treaty with Thailand) always owed tax on it, though most have not been filing tax returns or paying.  Their situation remains unchanged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct.

went to get a new bank debit card and she had to fill out a new form effective from yesterday with multiple questions about income where from , previous employment etc very invasive and will apply to all new accounts and most actions you might need to do at your bank. This applies to all persons, Thai's and foreigners. The staff were told this relates to the new funds remitted to Thailand law but had no idea how it may be applied.

I changed to a new bank book but was not required to fill out the form!

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, 10baht said:

You can be a deaf, dumb, and blind homeless beggar and do it.  Avg expat pensioner has nothing to do with it.

The issue is availability of funds of pensioners in Thailand to trade, no the limited skill levels required to do it. Expat pensioners who have lived in Thailand for 10, 15 or 20 years already, on fixed incomes and with frozen pensions, tend not to do 400k baht trades!

[Ben Zioner]

48 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is worth noting that foreigners who were having old age pensions directly remitted to Thailand have in some cases (depending on type of pension and terms of the relevant Tax Treaty with Thailand) always owed tax on it, though most have not been filing tax returns or paying.  Their situation remains unchanged.

A real worry, as they can revisit ten years back.

[Jaggg88]

23 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Most people won't have been required to submit a UK tax return so income that is under the tax threshold will automatically not have been assessed.

All UK pension providers will use your personal tax code and submit a P60 at the end of the tax year so all your pension income will have been assessed and tax deducted or not as required.

[Metapod]

holding out hope that Thai Elite will be excluded and given preferential treatment like the LTR visas

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

It is worth noting that foreigners who were having old age pensions directly remitted to Thailand have in some cases (depending on type of pension and terms of the relevant Tax Treaty with Thailand) always owed tax on it, though most have not been filing tax returns or paying.  Their situation remains unchanged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you state "their position remains unchanged", I'm not sure I follow you: their position surely changes, because now they will still owe taxes, and file a tax return?