Bye bye Thailand, thanks for nothing!

[BE88]

6 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Will you change countries to save $215 a month?

 

Where do you keep this amount? This is only a stupid comment.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by BE88

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

You can opt out of Medicare Part B. It would prob pay for your new Thai Tax bill.

 

Most countries have some kind of tax for remitted income. In Mexico and Brazil, they tax ALL world wide income, whether remitted or not. At crazy high rates that kick in early

 

Unpopular opinion: We live here, we use the road, police ect. So Thailand deserves some revenue for that.

 

 

Unpopular and dumb. Taxation without representation and any rights of a citizen.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Perhaps you didn't read this article in The Thai Enquirer @ujayujay, which is where most of us first became aware of this tax issue.

 

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

 

As far pensioners are concerned the most important paragraph is this one:

 

'The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand'.

 

Got it now?

 

What about having pensions income (only pension income) from a country where the pension income is below the basic personal tax threshold (originating country and Thailand) and the country has a double tax agreement with Thailand?

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

 

I have read on this forum dozens of times of Trump-types outraged that migrants in the USA get medical care, social services, education when they are not US citizens.

 

Therefore, I expect they will be first in line to pay Thai taxes with a smile, lest they be thought of as foreigner freeloaders.

 

If you believe in America First back home, (or no benefits for asylum seekers in Europe), then what's wrong with Thai people believing in Thailand First about us -we who are much, much richer than migrants and asylum seekers?

Absurd comparison.

Expats here get nothing like that. 

Nothing to do with maga which is of course total idiocy. 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

I am Swiss and Switzerland has a double taxation agreement with Thailand like the USA. Unfortunately, these agreements will no longer apply from January 1, 2024, according to rumors! It is ridiculous that this law is supposed to come into force in about 3 weeks and the flow of information is limited to personal opinions from unreliable sources and not to a binding announcement from the Thai government!

" according to rumors! " is the operative phrase .

Think about it.  Do you really think Thailand will renege on bilateral treaties only so it can tax the income a a few hundred thousand expats,?most of who would leave Thailand anyway, and in the end they will not even be taxing those. 

if Thailand was to withdraw from tax treaties with most major countries, who do you think would get hurt more? the major countries or Thailand? 

 

Settle down and relax , it is all rumors, we will know more soon and I am sure it will not be as bad as you think. 

 

[bob smith]

15 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

Well said Bob, we are not at all linked to Thailand where they don't want to integrate us due to pure racism therefore they always indicate on our non-immigration extension with regular checks to see if we are still where we live, which civilized country does this? Only in countries where dictatorship exists.

 

So if they continue to bust my balls I have no problem with changing country.

 

Indeed. 
 

the world is our oyster!

 

stuff em!

[Prubangboy]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

Taxation without representation and any rights of a citizen.

You're not a citizen. So you have no citizen rights.

 

You're a resident, so subject to the rules and restrictions therein. You are who they invented the term tax resident for.

 

You may feel shortchanged here compared to the lavish (?) spread a Mexican who swims the Rio Grande gets. But you are using the infrastructure and various government services. It all costs something. And typically, Mexican workers are paying into Social Security, which they will never receive.

 

Why should a Thai guy who drives a cab pay tax and not you?

 

If 8% total world-wide income seems too high to you, what % works for you?

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

You can opt out of Medicare Part B. It would prob pay for your new Thai Tax bill.

 

Most countries have some kind of tax for remitted income. In Mexico and Brazil, they tax ALL world wide income, whether remitted or not. At crazy high rates that kick in early

 

Unpopular opinion: We live here, we use the road, police ect. So Thailand deserves some revenue for that.

 

 

I wouldn't say anything about most countries. There is no way you know that. You're just talking out of your ___. Anyway I've never been interested in Brazil but I am interested in Mexico. Expats need to do their own research to understand how things will impact them personally. I could be wrong but I think pension income is exempt there. A good example of this is Colombia which is regarded as rather tax unfriendly to expats. I did extensive research of this and found I would be required to file but social security could be fully deducted. Meaning a hassle but zero tax.

[BE88]

8 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

You're not a citizen. So you have no citizen rights.

 

You're a resident, so subject to the rules and restrictions therein. You are who they invented the term tax resident for.

 

You may feel shortchanged here compared to the lavish (?) spread a Mexican who swims the Rio Grande gets. But you are using the infrastructure and various government services. It all costs something. And typically, Mexican workers are paying into Social Security, which they will never receive.

 

Why should a Thai guy who drives a cab pay tax and not you?

 

If 8% total world-wide income seems too high to you, what % works for you?

 

The answer is very simple, because we don't have any civil rights, we are just considered tourists not residents.

Therefore any tax is a scammer for us.

Change the law and make us become full residents then it will be right to pay taxes like all residents.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by BE88

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

You're not a citizen. So you have no citizen rights.

 

You're a resident, so subject to the rules and restrictions therein. You are who they invented the term tax resident for.

 

You may feel shortchanged here compared to the lavish (?) spread a Mexican who swims the Rio Grande gets. But you are using the infrastructure and various government services. It all costs something. And typically, Mexican workers are paying into Social Security, which they will never receive.

 

Why should a Thai guy who drives a cab pay tax and not you?

 

If 8% total world-wide income seems too high to you, what % works for you?

You're the one playing the maga BS game. Don't involve me with that!

It's become clear to me that you're just playing a T game here.

BYE!

[Moonlover]

19 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

What about having pensions income (only pension income) from a country where the pension income is below the basic personal tax threshold (originating country and Thailand) and the country has a double tax agreement with Thailand?

How does such a person meet the financial requirements to come and stay in Thailand?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

How does such a person meet the financial requirements to come and stay in Thailand?

For retirement based on bank account.

Income required for that is ZERO baht.

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, connda said:

Not sure where you are getting your information, but I've worked here, paid taxes, and trust me - I have no access to permanent residency and healthcare. 

I believe that was intended as satire. Alot to be satirical about here. 

[Prubangboy]

32 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

we are just considered tourists not residents.

 

 

Please look at your visa.

 

It's not a tourist visa, it's a residency visa. A retirement visa is a kind of residency visa. When you become a legal resident, you also become a tax resident, for whom the rules are not printed on stone tablets, handed down from God, never to be changed.

 

In most places in the world, residents (long term stayers), are subject to local taxation, subject to whatever is tax treaty is in place, because they are tax residents.

 

Taking your ball and running away from a polite discussion belaboring this bit of obviousness (or from whatever a T game is) does not change this common sense fact.

 

I lived in England, as a Non-Dom. I had to pay taxes to live in England, because I was a tax resident of the UK . A Thai tax resident living overseas has to abide by the tax rules of the country they live in too.

 

People may feel aggrieved about perceived "racism" here, or complain that "it's not worth it". These hurt feelings are not relevant to a discussion of tax residents living in foreign countries.

 

The local government has the discretion to define who is and who isn't a tax resident. Since every country in the world does this, the odd man out is you.

 

* The $215 amount was the monthly amount of Thai tax due on a $25K remittance. Like I explicitly said.

 

Your feigning complete confusion over this blindly obvious fact is a little goofy.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Prubangboy

[BE88]

22 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Please look at your visa.

 

It's not a tourist visa, it's a residency visa. A retirement visa is a kind of residency visa.

 

In most places in the world, residents (long term stayers), are subject to local taxation, subject to whatever is tax treaty is in place.

 

Taking your ball and running away from a polite discussion belaboring this bit of obviousness (or from whatever a T game is) does not change this common sense fact.

 

I lived in England, as a Non-Dom. I had to pay taxes to live in England. A Thai person living overseas has to abide by the tax rules of the country they live in.

 

People may feel aggrieved about perceived "racism" here, or complain that "it's not worth it". These hurt feelings are not relevant to a discussion of tax residents living in foreign countries.

 

The local government has the discretion to define who is and who isn't a tax resident. Since every country in the world does this, the odd man out is you.

 

* The $215 amount was the amount of Thai tax due on a $25K remittance. Like I explicitly said.

 

Your feigning complete confusion over this blindly obvious fact is a little goofy.

 

You who think you know everything and who allow yourself to call those who don't agree with you demonstrate great ignorance.

 

You must have a new passport because on mine it says in big letters Non immigration. So I'm not a resident. A resident in Western countries has all the rights and duties, whereas in Thailand we would have all the duties and no rights such as medical care by paying for insurance like the Thais.

 

Finally, your tax calculation is just ridiculous in first grade. What are you about how much money I send to Thailand????

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by BE88

[scottiejohn]

18 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Please look at your visa.

If his entry "visa" has been extended for whatever reason it is an extension and no longer a visa!

[Prubangboy]

9 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

You who think you know everything

 

Nah, I'm just a person who knows the term, tax resident, and understands the very simple concept.

 

Yes, you are NOT an immigrant. We agree on that. You have residency status, due to retirement (I'm guessing).

 

Saying that you have no rights as a tax resident living in Thailand is nuts. You may not like your basket of rights here, but it's not like you live in N. Korea. You seem butt hurt that dirt poor Thailand isn't giving you NHS-level service. For free. The mind boggles.

 

What onerous "duties" other than 90 day reporting are chafing against you here? Jury duty? Serving in the Thai Army?

 

Feel free to do the math on a $25K remittance using those tax bands and see if you come up with a different number. I called you goofy due to your Ghandi-like passive resistance to basic arithmetic.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Prubangboy

[BE88]

3 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Nah, I'm just a person who knows the term, tax resident, and understands the very simple concept.

 

Yes, you are NOT an immigrant. We agree on that. You have residency status, due to retirement (I'm guessing).

 

Saying that you have no rights as a tax resident living in Thailand is nuts. You may not like your basket of rights here, but it's not like you live in N. Korea.

 

What onerous "duties" other than 90 day reporting are chafing against you here? Jury duty? Serving in the Thai Army?

 

Feel free to do the math on a $25K remittance using those tax brands and see if you come up with a different number.

 

IF you don't even bother to read my replies, you've tired me out.

[Prubangboy]

3 minutes ago, BE88 said:

 

IF you don't even bother to read my replies, you've tired me out.

Yeah, def.

 

Let's never interact in any way ever again.

 

Cambodia's calling. And I hope you answer.

[Prubangboy]

56 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is no way you know that. You're just talking out of your ___. 

-If only there were a way -perhaps using some kind of computer- where questions on stuff like tax could be quickly answered.

 

Ooops, there isn't. As per the above, "There's no way to know that".

[Galong]

8 hours ago, connda said:

Not sure where you are getting your information, but I've worked here, paid taxes, and trust me - I have no access to permanent residency and healthcare. 

I've worked here for 30+ years. After 15 years (180 months) of paying into Thai Social Security, you are eligible for life. When I eventually give up my Work Permit, I have the option of a lump sum payment, monthly payments, or healthcare for life. I'll choose healthcare for life of course. 

I am very grateful for the Thai Social Security system and the healthcare that it offers. I use it often unfortunately. 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

How does such a person meet the financial requirements to come and stay in Thailand?

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

For retirement based on bank account.

Income required for that is ZERO baht.

A person who can raise and maintain 800k in their Thai bank account is very unlikely to to have an income so low that it would be below his home country's tax threshold. And if they did, they wouldn't be able to afford to live here anyway.

 

Besides, this is all academic anyway, because of the double taxation agreements.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Moonlover

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

A person who can raise and maintain 800k in their Thai bank account is very unlikely to to have an income so low that it would be below his home country's tax threshold. And if they did, they wouldn't be able to afford to live here anyway.

 

Besides, this is all academic anyway, because of the double taxation agreements.

 

Most of us get big cash lump sums when we start our pensions, some have sold houses in their home countries. But our pension incomes are relatively small.

 

If a single guy I could easily live here on 20kbht/month.

Edited December 8, 2023 by BritManToo

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

A person who can raise and maintain 800k in their Thai bank account is very unlikely to to have an income so low that it would be below his home country's tax threshold. And if they did, they wouldn't be able to afford to live here anyway.

 

Besides, this is all academic anyway, because of the double taxation agreements.

 

You're wrong. The majority of older people have a nest egg much bigger than that. The typical U.S. social security check is much less than the income requirements here. It's easy to live in Thailand for under 1000 USD a month depending on location and less than that if you buy a condo. 

I believe that you believe what you wrote, but you're quite simply misinformed. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jingthing

[Prubangboy]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You're wrong.

 

The typical U.S. social security check is much less than the income requirements here. 

I believe that you believe what you wrote, but you're quite simply misinformed. 

You have def raised an important point about low-spending retiree's here.

 

If your income is a grand a month, and say, $80 of that is now taken off the top, that's def a whack. 

 

It's a fluke of the tax code that you have to pay it and more affluent me does not, due to my tax credit.

 

Back home, where 99% of retirees live, having no tax below $25K is a godsend. But no tax paid there means no tax credit to apply here.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for people in your boat. What do you want the Thai's to do?

Edited December 8, 2023 by Prubangboy

[Puccini]

Hooray! Another topic about the recently announced revised guidelines issued by the Revenue Department to their staff regarding the taxation of foreign income remitted to Thailand.

 

How many of these topics do we already have? At least three dozens, I reckon. Anyway, it's good entertainment reading the replies. Keep them coming!

[save the frogs]

19 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Here's to hoping you have somewhere better to go!

 

some guys on here have been contemplating a "better place to go" for months and months on these forums ad nauseum ... so that surely gives them a head start? 

 

[Fr87]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Medical expenses no way except for insurance. 

 

Good medical services and procedures at fair rates (mind you, possible and LEGAL to be charged foreign unfair rates) are only 30% less that in US. Medical malpractice insurance doesn't exist, so basically, these costs are similar. Now, add to this being taxed on the procedure 30%

 

Thailand may be for some the most expensive place for procedures in the world - for certain individuals, seeking world standard not simply Thai standard care.

 

Check Bangkok hospital prices and add 35% 🤔

Edited December 8, 2023 by Fr87

[Fr87]

One simple measure that could be easily done and put thousands of minds to rest and prevent hundreds from leaving ...

 

Over 65 yo

Tax treaty agreement

Drawing pension

 

No need to file in Thailand bc in 99% of these cases taxes must be filed in home country.

 

Another thing they could do is pension deposit to Bangkok Bank are de facto de jure tax exempt.

 

This would remove thousands of expats from proposed tax filing reducing costs, bureaucracy tax examiners and asstd camp follower enforcers.

 

Very few older people have online income and especially trade crypto. Will this change in time? Maybe.

 

This effort harkens back to days of filing tax forms after you're half year plus here. It didn't work then nor will it work now.

 

This simple ideas will work for all concerned

[Mike Lister]

Much ado about nothing!

 

Complainers always complain, even if there is  nothing to complain about.

 

Paranoids that Thailand is always out to get them should start taking their meds again.

 

Cambodia and PI candidates: they may sound good on paper but the reality and longer term is they are not workable for most. There are reasons why those countries only have 0.5% and 0.1% of foreigners living there and Thailand has 5.2%.

 

 https://www.statista.com/statistics/912128/southeast-asia-migrant-proportion-of-population-by-country/