Pattaya visa scam leaves hundreds of tourists out of pocket and overstaying

[oslooskar]

1 hour ago, Joe Farang said:

Try looking up the definition of "circumvent"

No, need to look it up when I can clearly see an example of you attempting to circumvent your responsibility of providing concrete evidence to substantiate your allegation.

[Caldera]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:28 PM, webfact said:

Chanidapha revealed that the affected tourists, who had paid approximately 32,000 baht (US$ 916) each, had approached her language school, but the school found no record of them in their system.

 

Let me get this straight. The victims engaged a "visa agency" to get them an education visa/extension for studying at a language school. If they had had the intention to actually attend lessons, they'd have signed up with the language school directly. In other words, people who intended to obtain an education visa fraudulently got scammed in the process.

 

While I don't condone the actions of that scammy visa agency, the amount of sympathy I can find in my heart for those victims is therefor quite limited. 

[FritsSikkink]

On 12/21/2023 at 7:30 AM, jacko45k said:

This is an ED Extension and the help of some 'school' is required. I suspect the applicants are not yet 50. What type of Visa/Extension are you suggesting?

Elite, investment, marriage

[FritsSikkink]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:13 AM, Jackbenimble said:

go back to sleep and don't forget to take your meds

Save 800K

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Elite, investment, marriage

The first two are heavy on cost/ financial proof, and marriage, agents don't usually take them on. Marriage takes a while....

[beautifulthailand99]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:46 PM, proton said:

 

Bribing IO's is corrupt, illegal and wrong, as is anyone defending such practice, or using those methods. No agent passing on bribes good or 'honest'. Using agents to save time when you are legal is another matter.

With all due respect, I think you may be in the wrong country. There are many to choose from if that rocks your probably capsizing boat.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

[daveAustin]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:47 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I think using an agent is often helpful. It saves a lot of time and hassle.

I am legally in Thailand with business visa. If I go to immigration, I see my agent, and all is done in maybe 10min. I am willing to pay for that convenience.

But obviously it's important to know who you can trust. 

Took me less than an hour to do my last extension, including the copying and filling out the form etc. 1,900 baht. Each to their own, but risking one's passport for a bit of time saved is nuts in my book.

 

If there is one visa area that will see a crackdown, it will be agents circumventing the financial requirements.  

[proton]

39 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

With all due respect, I think you may be in the wrong country. There are many to choose from if that rocks your probably capsizing boat.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

 

Are you another one with a dodgy extension via bribery?

[jacko45k]

17 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

If there is one visa area that will see a crackdown, it will be agents circumventing the financial requirements.

People have said this for years...... and yet.

Surely it is a blatant abuse of the regulations, which should be very apparent and readily blocked... but every time a change is defined, it actually does the opposite, and forces more people to use agents, and the circumvention is still possible. I started using an agent, despite having the money required, untouched for over a decade... I just never know what immigration will need of me this year! An agent does, or so they say.   Glad you got yours done easily and quickly, it took me longer, back and forth trying to get what the agent claimed necessary.....

Edited December 25, 2023 by jacko45k

[beautifulthailand99]

5 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Are you another one with a dodgy extension via bribery?

No 3 months ImO as my wife is Thai and 3 months is as much as I can stand. I have no beef with those who play the system to stay here though. In Pattaya, I have heard a well-known bank works with some of the agents to provide 'statements' to facilitate the process. In the final analysis, most of the folks staying here by that route will be renting a condo, spending money in the shops and bars and modestly helping the economy while probably minding their own business. It's not as if there is a welfare state here to sponge off after all. If you are going to find windmills to tilt at there are much worthier targets than this 'workaround'.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Took me less than an hour to do my last extension, including the copying and filling out the form etc. 1,900 baht. Each to their own, but risking one's passport for a bit of time saved is nuts in my book.

 

If there is one visa area that will see a crackdown, it will be agents circumventing the financial requirements.  

Obviously it depends.

For my Non-B visa (extension) they want many documents, maybe 50 pages or more. And obviously almost all of that is in Thai. If I would go there alone and the officer would ask me about any detail, I wouldn't have any idea what to do.

 

I remember when I applied for a Non-B visa in the embassy in Phnom Phen. The woman behind the counter, who works there since years, complained that the name of the company in the work permit is wrong. Luckily I knew about that "problem", just look at the end of the work permit where the renaming of the company was registered.

I don't know if many of those officers don't know any better or if they enjoy p@#$# off people.

[BritManToo]

51 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't know if many of those officers don't know any better or if they enjoy p@#$# off people.

They left school age 12, same as all the other Thais we encounter.

The young ones all have degrees, but the over 40s .......... nothing but the money to buy their jobs.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Took me less than an hour to do my last extension, including the copying and filling out the form etc. 1,900 baht. Each to their own, but risking one's passport for a bit of time saved is nuts in my book.

 

If there is one visa area that will see a crackdown, it will be agents circumventing the financial requirements.  

It's not about the 1hr to fill in the form, it's about the 5hrs queue in the hot sun before you get in the door.

[Walker88]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:47 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I think using an agent is often helpful. It saves a lot of time and hassle.

I am legally in Thailand with business visa. If I go to immigration, I see my agent, and all is done in maybe 10min. I am willing to pay for that convenience.

But obviously it's important to know who you can trust. 

10 minutes?

 

I envy you. I wish it was that easy. What's your trick?

 

My latest Non-B Business Visa renewal was 170 pages. It was a huge pain in the thoot, though I had help. Are you an employee or business owner? I own a company, so perhaps my renewal is more involved.

 

My renewal had, inter alia....

 

---Copies of my DBD forms

---Company tax filings for 2022

---My personal tax filing for 2022

---Copies of my Work Permit

---Passport copies, all current and past visas, latest entry stamp

---Proof of all VAT payments

---List of all employees plus proof all are on Thai Social Security

---The transcript from my highest level of education

---Bank statements

---Proof of all licenses

---Several pages of 'action shots' of me pretending to order employees around, sit behind piles of paper on my desk, looking deep in thought mulling over a business decision

---Additional photos of me standing in front of my office building with the address visible

---Copies of all shareholder and directors' meeting reports

 

Every paper had to carry my signature as well as the company stamp

 

I am told the most coveted position at IMM is in the Business Visa area. I'll leave it to readers to guess why, but......."there are ATMs in the basement should you be in need of one".

 

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't know if many of those officers don't know any better or if they enjoy p@#$# off people.

They are simply pernickety, and feel justified by finding the smallest and most trivial of mistakes to latch on and give you the run around. Nature of the beast.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, Walker88 said:

10 minutes?

 

I envy you. I wish it was that easy. What's your trick?

 

My latest Non-B Business Visa renewal was 170 pages. It was a huge pain in the thoot, though I had help. Are you an employee or business owner? I own a company, so perhaps my renewal is more involved.

 

My renewal had, inter alia....

 

---Copies of my DBD forms

---Company tax filings for 2022

---My personal tax filing for 2022

---Copies of my Work Permit

---Passport copies, all current and past visas, latest entry stamp

---Proof of all VAT payments

---List of all employees plus proof all are on Thai Social Security

---The transcript from my highest level of education

---Bank statements

---Proof of all licenses

---Several pages of 'action shots' of me pretending to order employees around, sit behind piles of paper on my desk, looking deep in thought mulling over a business decision

---Additional photos of me standing in front of my office building with the address visible

---Copies of all shareholder and directors' meeting reports

 

Every paper had to carry my signature as well as the company stamp

 

I am told the most coveted position at IMM is in the Business Visa area. I'll leave it to readers to guess why, but......."there are ATMs in the basement should you be in need of one".

 

I work(ed) in two different companies, in both cases the documents were prepared in close cooperation of the company's external accounting and the visa agent. And lots of signatures.

Both agents work the same way:

They arrive (alone) very early at immigration, so they are in the first few people in line.

They prepare everything is advance and do that full time.

When I arrive (about 8:30 or 9) they meet me at the entrance of immigration and walk with me to the waiting area in front of the responsible officer.

I wait a few minutes, the agent asks me to sit in front of the officer. The officer takes a picture. Thanks, that's it.

I think sometimes a few minutes later the same with another officer.

That's it, procedure done for a year.

And a meeting in our office with the agent so that he takes a couple of pictures of us at work. I think that normally happens once a year. 

 

The agents walk in the working area with the officers like they are part of immigration. It seems they can go wherever they want. 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by OneMoreFarang

[oslooskar]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:22 PM, proton said:

 

Are you another one with a dodgy extension via bribery?

If you are implying that using an agent to assist an individual in getting his/her visa extended is dodgy, then do tell us why you feel it is so?

[oslooskar]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:08 AM, EVENKEEL said:

It's always good fun reading posts from the old farts who were stupid enough to park money in Thailand when a mere 13,000 baht gets my legal extension done for me. Ahahaaaa

I always find it enjoyable reading the posts of the have-nots who are embittered and jealous of the haves who were smart enough to have money to park in Thailand.

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:49 AM, Kerryd said:

If you read the article (especially the Khaosod one) you will learn that that woman (Supawadee Thongnoi) was a former teacher at a language school. They do not say which one.

Most of the people apparently approached her about getting ED visas (or perhaps extensions of existing Visas). Some thought they'd actually paid for a language course but when they showed up at the school, the school had no record of them (which lead to the discovery that Supawadee was running a scam).

A lot of people use agents because a) they are just too lazy to spend one hour once a year to do it themselves (seriously), b) they simply can't be bothered to do the paperwork themselves even though all of it has English script and/or c) they need "help" because they wouldn't meet the requirements themselves (or don't want to risk being seen - you know what I mean).

As well, a lot of people with "ED" visas need a little extra "help" as they probably never attended a single class the entire time they've been in the country. (Remember a couple years ago, before "covid", when they did a big crackdown on a lot of Language schools as they found out most of their "students" had never gone to any classes.)

I used an agent when I got my first Non-O and my first Extension. I was working (overseas) and didn't know the paperwork and was basically just too busy having a good time (and money wasn't an issue) so using an agent was the easiest option.

But then I looked at the paperwork and saw how easy it was to do, so when I needed to apply for another Extension, I did it myself. A couple hiccups with not having photocopied all the things needed and not signing all the photocopies but still not a big problem.
Made a little list of everything, went home and got most of the paperwork and photocopies for the next year sorted out. Next time (and every time after that for the last what, 15 years now ?) was super easy.

I think it takes about 4-6 minutes with the IO clerk once your number is called. 1,900 baht for the application. I've often arrived at Jomtien, queued up, got my number, processed my application and been on the scooter heading home in an hour.
(I organize things so that when I go back the next day to get my passport I also do my 90 Day report and, if needed, a multi re-entry permit.)

So, about an hour and a half of my time over 2 days and 1900 baht (if I don't need the re-entry permit) in order to be able to stay here another year. Never had ANY problem with "nasty" or "irate" or "mean" IOs.
Then again, I shower and wear clean clothes before I go and address them politely when I'm there.

Unlike some people. Too many in fact. I seriously can't understand the difficulty of having a shower and wearing clean clothes before going to Immigration. I've encountered people there that absolutely reek ! Like they've spent the last week drinking, puking and sleeping in their clothes and then show up at Immigration and expect to be treated like some foreign Prince.

But as we know, there are a lot of people out there that have to use agents despite all their claims about how super rich they are, because the truth is, a lot of them are no where near as wealthy as they claim to be.
So they have to shell out for an agent so they can avoid scrutiny of their finances lest the truth be told.

Oh "Bully for you" go to the top of the class teacher will be pleased.

 

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2023 at 12:17 PM, bbi1 said:

What about all the old farts who use agents for retirement visas who don't have the 800k in the bank? Immigration should deport them too for doing dodgy things and not having money. There should be a serious crackdown on this, big time. Too many are doing the dodgy dodgy.

But the 'old farts' do have a regular income once they have the visa, it is called a "pension" which they have worked for over their lifetime.

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2023 at 12:00 PM, couchpotato said:

If you don't use them, then why does it bother you?

Well said that man !

[Huckenfell]

On 12/21/2023 at 7:31 PM, proton said:

 

The retired do not work

Exactly!  and with the cost of living including rent these days, the OA pension does not go far in Australia as it would in Thailand.

[bbi1]

37 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

But the 'old farts' do have a regular income once they have the visa, it is called a "pension" which they have worked for over their lifetime.

They would have a regular pension with or without the visa as that having a visa has nothing to do with having a pension.

 

If they've worked all their lifetime, they should be able to put a measly 800k in a bank account without having to pay an agent to do the dodgy dodgy because they don't have 800k in a bank account. 800k is a small amount for someone working all their lifetime to have in a savings account.

Edited December 26, 2023 by bbi1

[proton]

6 hours ago, oslooskar said:

If you are implying that using an agent to assist an individual in getting his/her visa extended is dodgy, then do tell us why you feel it is so?

 

How long have you been here? Many use agents as they don't have they necessary money in the bank. so get an agent to bribe an IO to ignore it. Very often the extension are from provinces the applicant does not even live in, so involve a fake address. If thats no dodgy I don't know what is

[oslooskar]

33 minutes ago, proton said:

 

How long have you been here? Many use agents as they don't have they necessary money in the bank. so get an agent to bribe an IO to ignore it. Very often the extension are from provinces the applicant does not even live in, so involve a fake address. If thats no dodgy I don't know what is

Well, I have the necessary funds in my Thai bank account but I still prefer to use an agent because I hate dealing with government bureaucracies of any kind. I do my 90-day reports online and that's it. I do not do anything dodgy or illegal. Also, I had to deal with American immigration many years ago when trying to get a visa for my Thai wife so she could enter the USA and I was very fortunate that my Congresswoman had my back and assisted me. Bottom-line, if it becomes illegal to use an agent to assist me getting my visa renewed, then I will discontinue using them. I will never knowingly break the law.

[NextG]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

They would have a regular pension with or without the visa as that having a visa has nothing to do with having a pension.

 

If they've worked all their lifetime, they should be able to put a measly 800k in a bank account without having to pay an agent to do the dodgy dodgy because they don't have 800k in a bank account. 800k is a small amount for someone working all their lifetime to have in a savings account.

Seems you are working yourself up into a tizzy over the finances of people you don’t know nor have even met. Don’t you think that’s a bit weird?

Of course you would like to tell that it somehow affects you in some kind of roundabout manner, but we know that it does not. 
Personally I used an agent when I was stuck in Thailand during the no travel period and the scary virus debacle. Of course you would agree that would be a perfectly sensible thing to do…. wouldn’t you?

 

Seriously, how about enjoying whatever life you have left instead of sticking your nose into things that really are none of your business? 

It just seems that you feel the need to try to look down on others in order to feel ‘superior’. Believe me, no one would extrapolate superiority from what you have written here. 

[proton]

42 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

Well, I have the necessary funds in my Thai bank account but I still prefer to use an agent because I hate dealing with government bureaucracies of any kind. I do my 90-day reports online and that's it. I do not do anything dodgy or illegal. Also, I had to deal with American immigration many years ago when trying to get a visa for my Thai wife so she could enter the USA and I was very fortunate that my Congresswoman had my back and assisted me. Bottom-line, if it becomes illegal to use an agent to assist me getting my visa renewed, then I will discontinue using them. I will never knowingly break the law.

 

You don't seem to see the legitimate use of agents as in your case, opposed to the underhand way of getting what you are not legally entitled to by bribery.

[NextG]

5 minutes ago, proton said:

 

You don't seem to see the legitimate use of agents as in your case, opposed to the underhand way of getting what you are not legally entitled to by bribery.

Why is it that you concern yourself with this? Are you hoping to make him a better man or are you just looking for a way of spreading your toxicity?

[bbi1]

32 minutes ago, NextG said:

Personally I used an agent when I was stuck in Thailand during the no travel period and the scary virus debacle. Of course you would agree that would be a perfectly sensible thing to do…. wouldn’t you?

As far as there was nothing dodgy and all above board then I find using an agent perfectly acceptable, but not for those that don't follow the law to legally stay here, which is 800k in their bank account for retirement extensions. Problem are all these dodgy folks who don't do that and pay agents to bribe immigration officers because they don't have the 800k in savings. Same with those folks that were on volunteering visas  in the past doing the dodgy dodgy. Same with those people who bribe cops to get out of fines and other type of trouble. Thailand doesn't need all those dodgy type of foreigners here.

Edited December 26, 2023 by bbi1

[riclag]

That’s a Ouch 🤕