Expat vs Economic migrant

[BritManToo]

Just now, Jingthing said:

The entire premise of this topic is moot.

Being an expat and an economic migrant are not mutually exclusive.

I consider myself an economic refugee.

Migrant implies a right to live here.

[connda]

5 hours ago, Celsius said:

It seems to me that a lot of posters here are not expats, but rather economic migrants.

 

When I read some posts here I am astonished with amazement to read.....

 

"I use an agent because I can't meet financial requirements."

 

"I rely on gofundme and luck from above for medical treatments"

 

"I would rather live poor in Thailand than poor in Europe"

 

"I teach English in Thailand"

 

Thailand is no place for the poors

 

 

Let the Dead Horse Beatings begin!

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

who should be living here?

People who have a good, well paid job with many fringe benefits. Those with a solid pension, who reckon it is better to stay here for their family and let their kids decide where they want to live later.  Otherwise I couldn't see any strong motivation, sex I could find anywhere, I have boomboomed on the five continents.

[Wrwest]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Those who sold everything at home are now forced to call Thailand home. Very few retirees have the finances to start over in home country. They are the ones bashing their home country.

Too broad. Might have quailed as “many”. I sold all property and cannot afford a working middle class retirement in the USA on my sustainable $2400.00 a month ($1526.00 of that from SS). But I am not forced to call Thailand home … there are other lower cost countries hosting millions of the western retired working middle class. While I do not actively “bash” the USA, as a student of history I am very familiar with failures to reach the ideals.

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, novacova said:

These should be weeded out in my opinion.

 

Yeah sure, who in their right mind thinks it’s okay to be a lackey?

 

Boot them out…

"These should be weeded out in my opinion."

 

Depriving immigration of their main source of income? That's cruel.

Edited December 23, 2023 by jesimps

[Celsius]

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

 

You start these sad topics to bait people. If you're going to play the big man role as least lie 555

 

 

 

you mean, like you?

 

 

[Kinok Farang]

Sometimes you can tell the character of people just by the post he writes.This fella is a perfect example.

A pompous bore who is happy being I'm alright Jack.

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, Kinok Farang said:

Sometimes you can tell the character of people just by the post he writes.This fella is a perfect example.

A pompous bore who is happy being I'm alright Jack.

 

And some you can just tell by looking at their username 

[brianthainess]

3 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

Your prime earning years and all you've banked is <£300k.

Yikes!

 

 

What's wrong with 12.5 million baht saved? no mention of owned property or a pension coming in.

[SportRider]

4 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

personally i think whether somebody should or should not be living here is a matter for the Thai authorities, and not pompous expats who think they are better off ( or just plain better) than others.    What's wrong with just minding one's own business?

Agree.  This thread feels distastefully judgemental somehow.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm from USA, don't think it's so easy there. 

The USA, some people call it the richest nation on earth, was always special.

The super rich get tax cuts, and the poor have to suffer. And this is what the American voters vote for. Amazing! 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I consider myself an economic refugee.

Migrant implies a right to live here.

Definitely more appropriate ... 😎

[ChrisP24]

Good topic.

 

I live in a warm state in the U.S., and in late Fall of each year we receive thousands of "snow bird" retirees from northern states, together with a significant number from Canada, who then return to their home state (or country) around Easter after winter releases its grip on where they're from.

 

Some years ago in reading the various expat web sites and forums, I ran across the term "economy birding" which is basically choosing to spend part of each year in a Western (expensive) economy, and part of the year in a relatively inexpensive economy such as Thailand.  That is my own plan, not because I can't afford to live in the U.S., actually I plan to maintain a home here.  But money goes so much further in a place like Thailand, from basic living expenses to all of the things that make life enjoyable.  That, plus the atmosphere in Thailand and neighboring countries is just in so many ways relaxed and humanizing, compared to the uptight and politically-polarized atmosphere that I'm experiencing here in the U.S. lately.      

 

So I guess I consider myself an intermittent economic migrant, which is not to say an economic refugee.  I much prefer the term "economy bird" as a more accurate term, for those who want labels. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by ChrisP24

[noobexpat]

48 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

What's wrong with 12.5 million baht saved? no mention of owned property or a pension coming in.

 

He doesn’t have either (too young for pension)...otherwise he wouldn't be playing the big i am role on his teeny weeny canadian dollars 555

 

Third marriage in your early fifties though. Maybe not so bad after all.

 

The purpose of his post was to mock. Lets not forget that.

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

 

you mean, like you?

 

 

Yep i'm so insecure i want to impress a load of crackpots on here 555

[EVENKEEL]

43 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The USA, some people call it the richest nation on earth, was always special.

The super rich get tax cuts, and the poor have to suffer. And this is what the American voters vote for. Amazing! 

It's called taking responsibility of your existence. It's not perfect, but still an awesome nation.

[Presnock]

Actually, I spent 40 years living mostly in forieign countries in Asia, Europe, central America and Africa.  I kept a log of my life in each of the countries, and in almost all, I was trained in the local language so could get around easily and did travel a lot within most of those countries.  In my log book, I wrote about the local food, acceptance of foreigners, weather, dangers from volcanoes, earthquakes and terrorists and of course the temporary immigration scenarios.  I really like some of the other countries quite a bit like the PI, I am a certified open water diver and with 9000 islands and

crystal-clear waters with tons of life it was great as well as the cheap and readily available golf.  However, while there I experienced some of the 20 typhoons a year with lots of flooding, active volcano 50 miles from the capital where Iived, earthquakes at the 8+ level so dropped that country from

my retirement years.  Thailand outweighed all the rest of the countries, yeah Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Malta all have some great varieties of life and I loved them too but...Several Asian countries (mostly SEA) have some pleasant memories too but Thailand far outweighed all of them in that this country was high on the list for just about every category.  When I first retired here 20 years ago, I was doing the regular trips to Cambodia, arriving early at the immigration office to get a queue ticket hopefully for the same day when doing my reporting and extension of long-stay and as it has come to pass, it is now easier than it used to be and therefore cheaper too though that isn't affecting my pleasure of being here.  When I first came to Thailand, there was no western fastfood at all, one store did open around soi31 I think of Sukumvit that sold western foods but as I kept coming back to Thailand, I could see the modernazation of just about every category.  I love the spicy Thai food and while I eat healthier nowadays with all the available fresh fruits and veggies I still eat 1 Thai meal daily.  I speak Thai, though not as well as I did years ago as I speak English with my daughter and Thai with my wife but she doesn't like extension conversations as she is trying to learn English.  The weather here, especially when I what it is like back in the US, is still a

favorite of mine.  I hate snow, ice-covered roads, tornados, baseball size hail, etc so have no plans whatsoever to leave.  I am on a US govt pension so according to the DTA agreement with the Thai and US govt, I will not be taxed here so I see no real problem with me staying here a while longer.

Happy Holidays to all the readers on this forum.  Some great stories, lots of useful information.  Yeah and some useless stuff too. 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

And it seems now that for UK retirees, while they might be able to go back they would not be able to bring their Thai spouse.

What do you mean "now", been that way for many since 2012.

Those that were not affected by the introduction of the income threshold then were probably on occupational pension and unlikely to be affected by the proposed increase.

 

As the poster implied, Brits returning would be immediately on full pension, free healthcare and any applicable social security.

Maybe not the lifestyle they hoped for but it is an alternative.

[Celsius]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

What do you mean "now", been that way for many since 2012.

Those that were not affected by the introduction of the income threshold then were probably on occupational pension and unlikely to be affected by the proposed increase.

 

As the poster implied, Brits returning would be immediately on full pension, free healthcare and any applicable social security.

Maybe not the lifestyle they hoped for but it is an alternative.

 

She probably means the doubling of financial requirements that happened recently. Although I read that has been put on hold.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

It's called taking responsibility of your existence. It's not perfect, but still an awesome nation.

Absolutely agree!

 

When I think that I could be back "home" in my own country, a place: that now has the highest cocaine use per capita in Europe; not only has defibrillators in red boxes on the street but also stab wound emergency care kits, because knife crime is so far out of control; where the wait time for an operation in the health care system is measured in years; utility bill costs during winter mean some older people have to choose between heat or food; shoppers in many stores, no longer shop and pay, instead the norm has become to shop and leave; I'm very happy that my biggest concern living here is whether or not I'll have to pay 5% extra Thai tax on 200 Pounds of imported income next year.

[Baht Simpson]

Very few of us are immigrants let alone economic migrants. We literally enter the country with a non-immigrant status visa which expires on entry and is converted to a permit to stay, which can be extended when financial requirements are met. We are permit holders. 

 

Those who bend or flout the rules could be classed as such but there's not too many of them. If you are not seeking a job or living on social security and can support yourself you're not an economic migrant, however little you spend.

[Celsius]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Absolutely agree!

 

When I think that I could be back "home" in my own country, a place: that now has the highest cocaine use per capita in Europe; not only has defibrillators in red boxes on the street but also stab wound emergency care kits, because knife crime is so far out of control; where the wait time for an operation in the health care system is measured in years; utility bill costs during winter mean some older people have to choose between heat or food; shoppers in many stores, no longer shop and pay, instead the norm has become to shop and leave; I'm very happy that my biggest concern living here is whether or not I'll have to pay 5% extra Thai tax on 200 Pounds of imported income next year.

 

This is a fair point, but Thailand is also rapidly declining. 

 

 

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

She probably means the doubling of financial requirements that happened recently. Although I read that has been put on hold.

Many have forgotton, or never knew, the law was introduced by Theresa May in 2012 and the chances are if it didn't affect you then unlikely it will affect you now.

It hasn't been put on hold, the threshold figure has been amended down to just under £30K, think it is now £29,600.

[sandyf]

7 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Very few of us are immigrants let alone economic migrants. We literally enter the country with a non-immigrant status visa which expires on entry and is converted to a permit to stay, which can be extended when financial requirements are met. We are permit holders. 

 

Those who bend or flout the rules could be classed as such but there's not too many of them. If you are not seeking a job or living on social security and can support yourself you're not an economic migrant, however little you spend.

Quite. many seem to think they are entitled to be here and want to be seen as immigrants, despite the Non Immigrant visa status.

This is reinforced to a certain extent by governments like the UK who say if you take extended holidays in Thailand you are no longer a UK resident and not entitled to a full pension.

Begs the question if non immigrant in Thailand how can you have emigrated?

[sidjameson]

In the UK I can afford to live well in a provincial town. Same amount let's me live well in bkk. Is that expat, refugee or migraint? These labels crumble away on close analysis.

[Mike Lister]

14 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

This is a fair point, but Thailand is also rapidly declining. 

 

 

Not in my neighbourhood it isn't, nor in the places I visit in Thailand.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The USA, some people call it the richest nation on earth, was always special.

The super rich get tax cuts, and the poor have to suffer. And this is what the American voters vote for. Amazing! 

well now with Biden, open borders, the illegals (est 12 million) get a lot free bennies and can hang around in the US until the court can hear their 

asylum case which might take several years with the backlog.  This means, that the states/cities controlled by the democrats have to raise the taxes to their citizens to pay for the care of these immigrants and many of these states are already have shrinking citizens as they are moving to states with lower taxes.  Politicians in the US are like many around the world - corrupt - can't even pass an anti-corruption bill.  Supreme Court set up their own ethics rules which they disobey anyway as the public started screaming at their antics.  Too much polarization now with extremes on both sides and none seem to be happy but do resort to violence more and more.  Better to stay in Thailand than go back to that.  My opinion anyway

[Presnock]

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Not in my neighbourhood it isn't, nor in the places I visit in Thailand.

new govt is seeking money in any way possible mostly do to the populist promises they promised prior to the election.  Unless the 40 million tourists return next year the economy may  shrink even more as the economies around the world seem to be shrinking after the pandemic overspending.  But

better here than in many other places in my opinion.

[Iamloki]

8 hours ago, Celsius said:

It seems to me that a lot of posters here are not expats, but rather economic migrants.

I thought economic migrants all wound up at the US/Mexican border...

[Iamloki]

8 hours ago, Celsius said:

"I use an agent because I can't meet financial requirements."

1. I meet the financial requirements, but still consider myself an "economic migrant"... I can't live the life style I have here in Thailand in the US...

 

2. Just because someone can't put the money in the bank, or can't reach the required income... does not mean they can't support themselves otherwise. As long as they aren't causing trouble, and stay in Pattaya... who cares?