You can't get a good pizza

[GammaGlobulin]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

It’s not just pizza, it’s all Italian food - Italian food encompasses a vast range of culinary traditions from different regions, each with its own unique flavours and ingredients. In typical Italian tradition, Pizza is a regional dish.

 

Chinese cuisine is most diverse and the best in the world.

Italian cuisine would be the best in the world if it were not for Chinese cuisine.

Next, might come Thai food, just according to my own personal food preferences.

 

French food, we can leave to the Frogs.

I do not like it.

Frogs like to overdose on butter.

 

 

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Chinese cuisine is most diverse and the best in the world.

Italian cuisine would be the best in the world if it were not for Chinese cuisine.

Next, might come Thai food, just according to my own personal food preferences.

 

French food, we can leave to the Frogs.

I do not like it.

Frogs like to overdose on butter.

 

 

I agree about Chinese.

Italian is definitely very popular. 

However objectively I don’t think Thai food rates that high.

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Beer? Not me 

I like a good Italian red 🍷 with mine 👌

 

If you were a "good Italian" you would drink beer with pizza.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

The pizza here in Asia is not worth the dough.

Too much dough.

And too much dough.

And, no flavor.

 

You are right about smoking and drinking and food tasting.

 

 

 

DOUGH!!

 

Dough is VERY important - Italian pizza dough is special, A characteristic of a lot of Italian food is that it is deceptively simple.

It is based on a philosophy of making the most out of poverty – this gets the most flavour and nutrition out of the most basic ingredients – it uses sauces to flavour carbohydrate bases

 

Dough is vitally important part of a pizza – it is the foundation of th pizza – it’s PASTA” the basis of so much Italian food.

Foreign pizzas are often loaded with loads of toppings, Italian pizzas typically have just a few simple ingredients. This means that the flavour of the dough is able to shine through. A simple pizza made with good dough can be a delicious and satisfying meal.

 

Italian pizza dough uses fresh, simple ingredients; unlike some pizza doughs they don’t use artificial additives or processed flour, (which are essential with big companies that ship their ingredients all over the place)

 

Italian pizza dough only uses the flour, water, yeast, salt, and OLIVE oil. This means the flavour of the dough comes from the quality of the ingredients themselves, with good flour and olive oil making a big difference. The type of flour used can make a big difference in the flavour and texture of the dough. Italian pizza dough is typically made with "00" flour, which is a finely ground flour with a low gluten content. (around 12%) - this creates a delicate, light, and chewy crust.

 

Italian pizza dough is allowed to ferment for a long time, 24 hours or even longer. This slow fermentation process develops the flavour of the dough and breaks down the gluten, making it easier to digest.

There are of course, a wide variety of regional pizza styles, and each has its own unique dough. In Naples, for example, the home of the original pizza dough is thin and chewy, while in Rome, it is thicker and crispier. But you won’t find highly processed ingredients being use anywhere.

 

 

Other important factors –

Wood-Fired Ovens: A traditional Italian pizza is cooked in a wood-fired oven. This gives the dough a unique smoky flavour and crispy texture. The high heat of the wood-fired oven also helps to blister the crust.

 

The amount of WATER used can also affect the dough. Wetter dough will result in a crispier crust, while a drier dough results in a chewier crust.

The temperature of the oven is important for getting the right crust. A wood-fired oven is designed to achieve this.

 

So don’t underestimate dough, it is the main ingredient of the pizza – it is the foreign idea that you can make a pizza “better” by adding ingredients or toppings that in fact, ruins a pizza.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Chinese cuisine is most diverse and the best in the world.

Italian cuisine would be the best in the world if it were not for Chinese cuisine.

Next, might come Thai food, just according to my own personal food preferences.

 

French food, we can leave to the Frogs.

I do not like it.

Frogs like to overdose on butter.

 

 

 

 

In fact there are only 2 main families of cooking in the world - Chinese and Persian/Turkish - all other  cooking is descended from these 2 family trees (there are a few isolated cooking families that grew up in isolation)

 

Thai cuisine is predominantly descended from Chinese cooking and that is quite recent.

In some regions the cooking is influenced by other cultures - this would included food from neighbouring countries with a strong Indian influence - that being from the Persian cooking family tree.

[moogradod]

39 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

DOUGH!!

 

Dough is VERY important - Italian pizza dough is special, A characteristic of a lot of Italian food is that it is deceptively simple.............

 

 

Excellent  post. One of the few I can take seriously in this thread.

 

Best pizza I ever had was in Bari, opposite Naples. It was a simple Margherita.

Edited December 31, 2023 by moogradod

[moogradod]

29 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

 

In fact there are only 2 main families of cooking in the world - Chinese and Persian/Turkish - all other  cooking is descended from these 2 family trees (there are a few isolated cooking families that grew up in isolation)

 

Thai cuisine is predominantly descended from Chinese cooking and that is quite recent.

In some regions the cooking is influenced by other cultures - this would included food from neighbouring countries with a strong Indian influence - that being from the Persian cooking family tree.

 

To name Chinese as the worlds best kitchen seems to me a bit far fetched. How about the Japanese and French *family trees". All from China and Persia ?

 

My favourite food by far is Sushi.

[GammaGlobulin]

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

DOUGH!!

 

Dough is VERY important - Italian pizza dough is special, A characteristic of a lot of Italian food is that it is deceptively simple.

It is based on a philosophy of making the most out of poverty – this gets the most flavour and nutrition out of the most basic ingredients – it uses sauces to flavour carbohydrate bases

 

Dough is vitally important part of a pizza – it is the foundation of th pizza – it’s PASTA” the basis of so much Italian food.

Foreign pizzas are often loaded with loads of toppings, Italian pizzas typically have just a few simple ingredients. This means that the flavour of the dough is able to shine through. A simple pizza made with good dough can be a delicious and satisfying meal.

 

Italian pizza dough uses fresh, simple ingredients; unlike some pizza doughs they don’t use artificial additives or processed flour, (which are essential with big companies that ship their ingredients all over the place)

 

Italian pizza dough only uses the flour, water, yeast, salt, and OLIVE oil. This means the flavour of the dough comes from the quality of the ingredients themselves, with good flour and olive oil making a big difference. The type of flour used can make a big difference in the flavour and texture of the dough. Italian pizza dough is typically made with "00" flour, which is a finely ground flour with a low gluten content. (around 12%) - this creates a delicate, light, and chewy crust.

 

Italian pizza dough is allowed to ferment for a long time, 24 hours or even longer. This slow fermentation process develops the flavour of the dough and breaks down the gluten, making it easier to digest.

There are of course, a wide variety of regional pizza styles, and each has its own unique dough. In Naples, for example, the home of the original pizza dough is thin and chewy, while in Rome, it is thicker and crispier. But you won’t find highly processed ingredients being use anywhere.

 

 

Other important factors –

Wood-Fired Ovens: A traditional Italian pizza is cooked in a wood-fired oven. This gives the dough a unique smoky flavour and crispy texture. The high heat of the wood-fired oven also helps to blister the crust.

 

The amount of WATER used can also affect the dough. Wetter dough will result in a crispier crust, while a drier dough results in a chewier crust.

The temperature of the oven is important for getting the right crust. A wood-fired oven is designed to achieve this.

 

So don’t underestimate dough, it is the main ingredient of the pizza – it is the foreign idea that you can make a pizza “better” by adding ingredients or toppings that in fact, ruins a pizza.

 

Again, I agree with you.

Originally, by too much dough, I meant too much money, as in dough being a term for money.

 

Anyway, I will not eat Asian pizza due to the taste and texture, etc.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

39 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

 

In fact there are only 2 main families of cooking in the world - Chinese and Persian/Turkish - all other  cooking is descended from these 2 family trees (there are a few isolated cooking families that grew up in isolation)

 

Thai cuisine is predominantly descended from Chinese cooking and that is quite recent.

In some regions the cooking is influenced by other cultures - this would included food from neighbouring countries with a strong Indian influence - that being from the Persian cooking family tree.

 

Yes.

And, this explains my love of Thai food, obviously.

I have lived over 50 years on, exclusively, Chinese food.

Never a dull day when in China and when Chinese food is available.

BUT, I do not eat at Chinese restaurants in Thailand because....SUBstandard!!!!!!

 

[kwilco]

17 minutes ago, moogradod said:

 

Excellent  post. One of the few I can take seriously in this thread.

 

Best pizza I ever had was in Bari, opposite Naples. It was a simple Margherita.

You should get the best pizzas in that region the Margherita is allegedly made in the colours of the then new Italian flag — red (tomato), green (basil), and white (mozzarella).

Edited December 31, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

10 minutes ago, moogradod said:

 

To name Chinese as the worlds best kitchen seems to me a bit far fetched. How about the Japanese and French *family trees". All from China and Persia ?

 

My favourite food by far is Sushi.

 

"To name Chinese as the worlds best kitchen" - I don't, I'm saying there are 2 cullinary family trees in this world and one is Chinese.  Japanese food is of the Chinese family tree.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Chinese cuisine is most diverse and the best in the world.

Yes, it sure is, and would be expected to be when anything that walks, flies or crawls is considered edible. 

[GammaGlobulin]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, it sure is, and would be expected to be when anything that walks, flies or crawls is considered edible. 

 

You are correct that anything inedible is NOT used in preparing Chinese cuisine.

 

As to Chinese Baozi for breakfast, as mentioned by another poster above, there are many kinds.

And, probably, you CANNOT get them outside China, where they are cheap and plentiful, and available as early as 5:00 AM.

 

I am just sorry that I can no longer live in China, due to the political situation since 1949.  Otherwise, I would live there 6 months a year, and Thailand 6 months a year....for the food if nothing else.

 

Someday, I may visit Italy, where I can have Italian food.... The Real Italian food.

 

Until then, no pizza for me here in Thailand.

I'm unable to tolerate the disappointment after purchase.

 

I have never seen a proper pizza oven in Thailand.

Wood fired pizza oven, I mean.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

You are correct that anything inedible is NOT used in preparing Chinese cuisine.

 

As to Chinese Baozi for breakfast, as mentioned by another poster above, there are many kinds.

And, probably, you CANNOT get them outside China, where they are cheap and plentiful, and available as early as 5:00 AM.

 

I am just sorry that I can no longer live in China, due to the political situation since 1949.  Otherwise, I would live there 6 months a year, and Thailand 6 months a year....for the food if nothing else.

 

Someday, I may visit Italy, where I can have Italian food.... The Real Italian food.

 

Until then, no pizza for me here in Thailand.

I'm unable to tolerate the disappointment after purchase.

 

I have never seen a proper pizza oven in Thailand.

Wood fired pizza oven, I mean.

 

 

Pizza Art in Jomtien was as proper as it gets. But they closed.

 

How about Taiwan? I want to visit there.

 

Edited January 1 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

18 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Yes.

And, this explains my love of Thai food, obviously.

I have lived over 50 years on, exclusively, Chinese food.

Never a dull day when in China and when Chinese food is available.

BUT, I do not eat at Chinese restaurants in Thailand because....SUBstandard!!!!!!

 

I agree that overall the Chinese food in Thailand is not top notch but with trial and error I've found dishes here at some restaurants that work well enough for me.

My standard for Chinese food is the San Francisco Bay Area AKA Gold Mountain and also the Sichuan food of the famous chef that used to be the chef at the Chinese embassy in Washington. 

 

Another funny adaptation I've made is pimping up delivery food.

 

Like I'll order a Sichuan spicy mala oil broth pot of fish filets by adding more broth consisting of tofu, shiitake mushrooms, fermented Sichuan broad bean paste, Sichuan pepper oil, and bean vermicelli.

The result is excellent but I wouldn't be happy with the unaltered dish.

Edited January 1 by Jingthing

[GammaGlobulin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Pizza Art in Jomtien was as proper as it gets. But they closed.

 

How about Taiwan? I want to visit there.

 

 

Lousy Pizza in Taiwan.

 

Unless you like corn and pineapple pizza.

 

Taiwan has some of the worst pizza in the world.

 

You might find checking out the Betel Nut Girls to be far more interesting.

 

Actually, nothing to see in Taiwan, with over 640 people per square kilometer, Taiwan is one of the most densely populated places in the world.

 

The beaches are disgusting, and you can find chicken bones in the sand.

 

These days, the Palace Museum is tremendously overcrowded.

 

The Grand Hotel, where I used to live, was ruined in a fire.  Now, the indoor décor is cheap and garish. 

 

Not only the pizza stinks, but so does most of the Taiwanese food.

Hard to find Chinese food in Taiwan.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Pizza Art in Jomtien was as proper as it gets. But they closed.

 

How about Taiwan? I want to visit there.

 

The only food that Taiwan does best is BEEF NOODLES.

So, better eat beef noodles rather than pizza in Taiwan.

 

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Lousy Pizza in Taiwan.

 

Unless you like corn and pineapple pizza.

 

Taiwan has some of the worst pizza in the world.

 

You might find checking out the Betel Nut Girls to be far more interesting.

 

Actually, nothing to see in Taiwan, with over 640 people per square kilometer, Taiwan is one of the most densely populated places in the world.

 

The beaches are disgusting, and you can find chicken bones in the sand.

 

These days, the Palace Museum is tremendously overcrowded.

 

The Grand Hotel, where I used to live, was ruined in a fire.  Now, the indoor décor is cheap and garish. 

 

Not only the pizza stinks, but so does most of the Taiwanese food.

Hard to find Chinese food in Taiwan.

 

 

I think you're being silly now.

I wasn't suggesting Taiwan for pizza and I don't believe its hard to find Chinese food in Taiwan but of course they are known for Taiwanese religional specialties.

Have you been to Tainin?

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

The only food that Taiwan does best is BEEF NOODLES.

So, better eat beef noodles rather than pizza in Taiwan.

 

 

Yes I've had Taiwanese food including beef noodles other places such as Pattaya and San Francisco. 

 

A favorite of mine is three cup chicken.

 

 

Edited January 1 by Jingthing

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

.

 

I have never seen a proper pizza oven in Thailand.

Wood fired pizza oven, I mean.

 

 

 

Ive mentioned this Restuarant a few times in this thread.

 

Head chef is Italian.

Cheese/oil/flour/etc etc.

All imported from Sicily.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by Ralf001

[Chris Daley]

Hi can I get a condensed milk pizza on sugary dough with a sugary tomato base, hold the sugary cheese?  600 baht.  No problem.

Edited January 1 by Chris Daley

[GammaGlobulin]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're being silly now.

I wasn't suggesting Taiwan for pizza and I don't believe its hard to find Chinese food in Taiwan but of course they are known for Taiwanese religional specialties.

Have you been to Tainin?

 

Tainan?

Yes.  I was there before the city streets were paved.

I lived there for about 6 years.

Very flat and boring place.

Plenty of Betel Nut Girls.

Factories aplenty.

The people there are not very sophisticated.

Dearth of bookstores.

Very boring!

 

The condos there are disgusting.

 

If you want plastic injection molding, then Tainan used to be the place.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes I've had Taiwanese food including beef noodles other places such as Pattaya and San Francisco. 

 

A favorite of mine is three cup chicken.

 

 

 

Yes.

This is about the only edible Taiwanese food.

SAN BEI JI

I used to order this regularly in Tainan.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

32 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Ive mentioned this Restuarant a few times in this thread.

 

Head chef is Italian.

Cheese/oil/flour/etc etc.

All imported from Sicily.

 

 

 

 

 

I must admit..

I would eat a pizza there.

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Tainan?

Yes.  I was there before the city streets were paved.

I lived there for about 6 years.

Very flat and boring place.

Plenty of Betel Nut Girls.

Factories aplenty.

The people there are not very sophisticated.

Dearth of bookstores.

Very boring!

 

The condos there are disgusting.

 

If you want plastic injection molding, then Tainan used to be the place.

 

 

I was just asking. 

I've never been to Taiwan. 

Maybe it's changed.

I just read today Tainan recommended by CNN among the best travel destinations of 2024.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I was just asking. 

I've never been to Taiwan. 

Maybe it's changed.

I just read today Tainan recommended by CNN among the best travel destinations of 2024.

 

 

CNN is full of baloney, obviously.

Who even watches CNN, these days.

I used to watch CNN when it was first available in Taiwan at the hotels. How many years ago, I forget.

 

Anyway, I lived in Taiwan from 1979 to 2013.

Lived in Tainan, Taipei, on the east coast of Taiwan, in the mountains, and it all stinks.

 

Thailand is just so much better.

Also, the people in Thailand are superior in every way.

 

Such a disgusting place, Taiwan, really....

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

CNN is full of baloney, obviously.

Who even watches CNN, these days.

I used to watch CNN when it was first available in Taiwan at the hotels. How many years ago, I forget.

 

Anyway, I lived in Taiwan from 1979 to 2013.

Lived in Tainan, Taipei, on the east coast of Taiwan, in the mountains, and it all stinks.

 

Thailand is just so much better.

Also, the people in Thailand are superior in every way.

 

Such a disgusting place, Taiwan, really....

 

 

Yet you stayed there that long. Curious.

 

The travel article I referred to.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/best-destinations-to-visit-2024/index.html

 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yet you stayed there that long. Curious.

 

The travel article I referred to.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/best-destinations-to-visit-2024/index.html

 

 

The CNN paragraph about TaiNan was written by this old bag from Hong Kong...

https://www.scmp.com/author/maggie-hiufu-wong

 

How would someone from Hong Kong know much about Tainan, Taiwan?

She hasn't a clue.

 

Don't believe me?

Just go visit the place for yoursefl.

 

You just cannot trust travel writers, these days, because they get most of their information off the internet.

 

When they actually go to some destination, they form biased opinions based on just a short glimpse of the place.

 

 

I was in Taiwan before the end of Martial Law.

And, the best times in Taiwan were under martial law.

 

Now, Taiwan is a dump.

The young people are worse today than even the Strawberry Tribe were.

 

Taiwan was fun in the early 1980s....however.

 

Almost impossible to buy decent cheese back then...

 

Go there and see for yourself.

 

 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

You are correct that anything inedible is NOT used in preparing Chinese cuisine.

Not what was said.......

[GypsyT]

On 12/31/2023 at 5:15 PM, kwilco said:

So don’t underestimate dough, it is the main ingredient of the pizza – it is the foreign idea that you can make a pizza “better” by adding ingredients or toppings that in fact, ruins a pizza.

Wow.... finally one who understands -:).

 

PS. Best food?

For me 1. Thailand  2. Peru

- Quite interesting that 3rd world countries eat much better than any of the richer and modern ones...

 

 

Edited January 2 by GypsyT