Thaksin suffers heart valve disease and rarely has visitors : Chaichana

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

A visit to the Police General Hospital by members of the House Committee on police affairs was met with resistance yesterday, as they were denied access to the hospitalised former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He's very poorly don't you know... far to early for visitors.

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Posted above (and here) - the Proof that Thaksin was not at the 14th Floor of the Police Hospital where it was claimed he was staying.

That post from five month's ago accompanied by a meaningless comment (according to Google Translate) is proof that he's not there now?  Really?  Brilliant.

 

That information from five months ago indicates that he wasn't on the 14th Floor of the Police Hospital the time Authorities stated he was there....  

 

If that information is to be believed, it highlights that Authorities were untruthful five months ago - it highlights a degree of dishonesty we are discussing in this forum, which lends itself the plausibility that they are less than truthful with their information now. 

 

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

If that person wasn't aware of the seriousness of the condition, yes, of course, he may.

 

A person as vain and full of his own self-importance as Thaksin, would make damn sure he had very regular health checks as a matter of course, just like his mate, Hun Sen does.

[Scouse123]

Nobody knows where he is, and that is how the authorities intend it to be and will go to extremes to make sure that remains the case.

 

For everyone else, it's a guessing game.

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Ok, ok, Thaksin is unequivocally not in the PGH, definitely does not have any illnesses, whatsoever, and is certainly not in Klong Prem, either.    I know this because a bunch of AN posters told me, so it must be true, I just didn't want to believe the b0llocks of their "truth".  

 

Thats not what people are arguing...  you need to step out of your black and white world of absolutes and provable fact.

 

We (myself and others of a similar stance) are arguing the veracity the information surrounding Thaksin's illness and stating that we find it incredibly convenient that he doesn't have to remain in a 'real cell'....   and as such, begin to question other information surrounding the incarceration of a highly powerful, corrupt and wealthy person.

... we're arguing that while its plausible he is genuinely unwell, the timing and events adds such a degree of cynicism a suspicion of collusion and conspiracy is not far fetched.

 

 

 

[bannork]

7 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

A person as vain and full of his own self-importance as Thaksin, would make damn sure he had very regular health checks as a matter of course, just like his mate, Hun Sen does.

Moreover he would let the world know about his condition, exploit any public sympathy for political value. 

How many times has his daughter been seen rushing into the hospital the last few months?

 

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

...you need to step out of your black and white world of absolutes and provable fact.

My world of provable facts...what a terrible place to be.  Perhaps you need to not tell other members what you think they should be doing.

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Exactly, not to mention, obviously.

I am sure that something is the matter with you if I read ll your comments.. Probably you are the only one who his the highest IQ in the world...Therefor i don't need to be a doctor, but maybe you have to go and see one 

[KannikaP]

15 minutes ago, bannork said:

How many times has his daughter been seen rushing into the hospital the last few months?

No, Jingluck is still in Dubai.

[Liverpool Lou]

7 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Probably you are the only one who his the highest IQ in the world...

I'm grateful for your admiration but it's not quite 100% accurate.

[Liverpool Lou]

9 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

i don't need to be a doctor, but maybe you have to go and see one 

Careful with the lame, all-you've-got insults.

Edited January 13 by Liverpool Lou

[soalbundy]

Heart valve disease is a good one, can't see anything from the outside, just have to look a little weak and whisper, "I'm not long in this world (prison).

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

20 minutes ago, bannork said:

How many times has his daughter been seen rushing into the hospital the last few months?

No, Jingluck is still in Dubai.

Thaksin's daughter is in Dubai?  With his sister?

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

...you need to step out of your black and white world of absolutes and provable fact.

My world of provable facts...what a terrible place to be.  Perhaps you need to not tell other members what you think they should be doing.

 

Perhaps I do... as it seems you could do with advice to aid your understanding of absolutes vs plausibility and probability.  

 

There are many things in this world that cannot be proven unequivocally...  you cannot prove your existential reality.. i.e. you cannot prove you are not a brain in jar being manipulated, but that possibility is extremely implausible. 

 

Only mathematics deals with absolutes....  When it comes to the media and information we consume we deal with information on levels of plausibility, we are still receiving second hand information and that is open to manipulation and interpretation by others, hence the 'factual sources' you so readily desire, while (depending on the subject matter) are often more plausible than information provided by discussions on fora such as this, can also be heavily swayed, bias, distorted and manipulated by the author and authorities, especially in countries such as Thailand where media controls are more prevalent. 

 

Hence, the discussion and cynicism surrounding the incarceration of Thaksin, his reported illness, his location of incarceration or hospitalisation and whether he is incarcerated at all is all entirely based around perfectly plausible possibilities and cynicism.

 

On the other hand you are looking for some form of unequivocal proof otherwise and that cannot be provided.

What could be provided is regular unequivocal proof that he is indeed incarcerated in the Police Hospital where authorities state he is, however, even by your own admission there are only a 'couple of photos' of this and the rest are 'statements' which many of us would consider foolish to taken as fact.

 

Given the subject matter we are most certainly not dealing with absolutes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Valid point....   Don't you find the timing of his ill health incredibly convenient ??... the same night he returned ?

 

Of course, as another poster mentioned, the ill health could be plausible and he just wanted to come home and live out palliative care close to loved ones.

 

But, in Panthip (Thai Forum) a few months back there was an article by a Thai Social Media reporter, who'd interviewed Thaksin in Dubai a couple of months before his return, he was working out and and in perfect health... I suppose his health could deteriorate quickly at his age. 

 

Then... after he has returned to Thailand and it is found that Thaskin is unwell and needed be transfered to the 14th floor of the Police Hospital by Helicopter, a Thai journalist attempts to enter the Police Hosptial, is successful, there is no security (strange), he gets to the 14th floor, no security on that floor (again strange) and the AC is not on and the ward is empty...  (link below)...

 

All very strange, all very convenient...    Enough reason to be cynical ??... most definitely so... 

 

 

 

 

He delayed his return due to health reasons.

 

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

He delayed his return due to health reasons.

 

 

He seemed healthy enough on April 10th, 2022... 

 

With his daughter quoting...  "Grandpa is very fit. Grandchild is only 10 kilograms. He lifts him up and down, squats and stands quickly"...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcLF67qAavX/

 

Of course, that was over a year before he returned....  But if the excuse is 'he was delaying his return due to health reasons'...  Then it would appear his health reasons 'didn't stop him' appearing fit and healthy at that time.

 

 

There is also another video which did the rounds on Thai media (Panthip forum) where Thaksin was interviewed shortly before his return to Thailand, he was videoed working out (and reportedly doing the same 'work out' as young Thai cadets)...   [I unable to locate that video now - its buried somewhere on the net - this is it, but not the video].

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=698725882300178&set=a.372486674924102&locale=th_TH

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13 by richard_smith237

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

He seemed healthy enough on April 10th, 2022... 

 

With his daughter quoting...  "Grandpa is very fit. Grandchild is only 10 kilograms. He lifts him up and down, squats and stands quickly"...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcLF67qAavX/

 

Of course, that was over a year before he returned....  But if the excuse is 'he was delaying his return due to health reasons'...  Then it would appear his health reasons 'didn't stop him' appearing fit and healthy at that time.

 

 

 

Yeah in january 2023 I was "very fit".

 

I presented at hospital feeling dehydrated.

 

I left hospital in march after suffering 3 cardiac arrests.

Edited January 13 by Ralf001

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Yeah in january 2023 I was "very fit".

 

I presented at hospital feeling dehydrated.

 

I left hospital 3 months later after suffering 3 cardiac arrests.

 

I think you miss my point.... 

 

IF he was delaying his return due to fitness, then he was videod being 'fit' at a similar time. 

 

I agree its perfectly possible to be fit one day, and suffering heart issues the next.... 

 

In this case... 

 

Being shown being fit. 

Delaying because he's ill.

Then being shown being fit again (kickboxing).

Then i'll and needing 'special treatment' and can't be incarcerated in a prison cell.. . hmm... 

 

Its all just a little whiffy....  but the element of plausibility is enough to leave an element of doubt. 

 

 

 

Could it be argued that he [Thaksin] is not receiving privileged treatment ?

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think you miss my point.... 

 

IF he was delaying his return due to fitness, then he was videod being 'fit' at a similar time. 

 

I agree its perfectly possible to be fit one day, and suffering heart issues the next.... 

 

In this case... 

 

Being shown being fit. 

Delaying because he's ill.

Then being shown being fit again (kickboxing).

Then i'll and needing 'special treatment' and can't be incarcerated in a prison cell.. . hmm... 

 

Its all just a little whiffy....  but the element of plausibility is enough to leave an element of doubt. 

 

 

 

Could it be argued that he [Thaksin] is not receiving privileged treatment ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

not sure your angle, did he say he was fit and fine in the video or appeared to be fit ?

 

I was working 14hr days for weeks before I took myself to hospital because I felt a bit off for days and I thought it was dehydration... was actually severe pnuemonia in both lungs.... which then snowballed real quick.

[traveller101]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Careful with the lame, all-you've-got insults.

Did it ever cross your mind, that your pedantic compulsion in commenting, questioning and correcting every member who voices an opinion not based on "official facts" or the absence therof, might offend and be taken as an insult?

Applying common sense and logic to arrive at a more than probable interpretation of this sorry saga being played out over the last 5 months is not only legitimate but contributes to a lively discussion and exchange of views.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

not sure your angle, did he say he was fit and fine in the video or appeared to be fit ?

 

I was working 14hr days for weeks before I took myself to hospital because I felt a bit off for days and I thought it was dehydration... was actually severe pnuemonia in both lungs.... which then snowballed real quick.

 

The angle is simply suspicion... 

 

There are videos of him 'looking and acting fit'.

Then there are reports of him 'not returning to Thailand due to ill health'

He returned to Thailand and suffered ill health.

 

My argument in this thread is based on my suspicion that what is being officially reported may not be the truth and that using ill health offers a degree of plausibility to the reports. 

 

I am highly sceptical that someone as powerful as Thaksin is not receiving extremely 'special' treatment.

 

My speculation is that he is not at a Police Hospital at all, but is at home with family (there is no proof of this of course). 

My speculation is that if he is in Police Hospital, he is afforded luxuries other 'unwell inmates' would not, i.e. freedoms of regular family visits etc and its a nice large very comfortable suite rather than a 'hospital room' etc (there is no proof of this of course). 

My speculation is that as long as he keeps politically quiet, authorities turn a blind eye to his 'freedoms' (there is no proof of this of course). 

 

 

I have no proof of anything of course, but two decades of living here have left me rather jaded and cynical when it comes to such matters, such that, unless we saw a photo of him in his Police Hospital room each day which could be independently corroborated, then I don't believe he's there at all and suspect he's simply keeping a low profile at home. 

 

Other reports (since 'officially' debunked) have shown him to be back in Dubai, but I don't quite buy that either - but again, its plausible, that he returned to serve his sentence with a highly visible arrival, then goes back to Dubai, see's out his sentence, and of course, early release whereby he 'secretly' returns to Thailand and exits his 'Police Hospital' with a great deal of publicity and majfically is a model of good health !!

 

 

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The angle is simply suspicion... 

 

 

 

 

As I thought.

[PETERTHEEATER]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

My Dad had a heart valve problem, too.  Lived to 95, not in a hospital.

The last time I had a sticking valve smoke came out of my exhaust.

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The angle is simply suspicion... 

 

 

As I thought.

 

Are you not also suspicious / sceptical about the veracity of the 'official announcements' we are reading?

.... or do you believe everything is as being reported and there is 'nothing more to see here' ???

 

 

[Ralf001]

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Are you not also suspicious / sceptical about the veracity of the 'official announcements' we are reading?

.... or do you believe everything is as being reported and there is 'nothing more to see here' ???

 

 

Old people have health issues.

Thats my angle so I take the announcements on face value.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

He delayed his return due to health reasons.

 

An eye exam, wasn't it?

[digger70]

On 1/12/2024 at 4:24 PM, snoop1130 said:

He and a committee member, Thipa Paweenasathien, a Move Forward MP, were granted access to the 14th floor of the hospital today but were not allowed to enter the wards to find out whether Thaksin is still there.

This will prove that he isn't there.

If he Was there they could've looked true a window or door to see if he was there or Not.

There's no bigger Circus than in Thailand .

A Kinder garden is better run than this place.

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

An eye exam, wasn't it?

 

was it ?

[mark131v]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:24 AM, snoop1130 said:

but were not allowed to enter the wards to find out whether Thaksin is still there

 

So essentially the visit was about as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike, a complete and utter deflection and waste of time....

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Old people have health issues.

Thats my angle so I take the announcements on face value.

 

And buffalo's do occasionally get sick...

... A BG has genuinely been known to 'love someone long time'...   

 

Perhaps I am over cynical... but I think the above makes my point...