Lee Anderson and Brendan Clarke-Smith defy prime minister by supporting rightwing challenges to legislation

 

Rishi Sunak is facing a Conservative meltdown over the Rwanda deportation bill after two deputy chairs said they would support rebel amendments aimed at blocking international human rights laws.

 

Lee Anderson and Brendan Clarke-Smith have defied the prime minister by backing rightwing challenges to the bill, which will be debated by parliament on Tuesday. They will join as many as 70 other MPs said to be considering abstaining or opposing the controversial legislation.

 

The high-profile rebellion on Monday evening of two “red wall” MPs will be regarded as a direct threat to Sunak’s authority. The prime minister will now have to contemplate sacking them from their party jobs.

 

(more)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

 

97, 98, 99. Change the Tory PM once again.

 

What has happened to the UK Conservative party in the last few years?

 

It seems to have lost touch with its supporters, its MPs, and IMHO, I think it has also lost touch with reality.

37 minutes ago, billd766 said:

97, 98, 99. Change the Tory PM once again.

 

What has happened to the UK Conservative party in the last few years?

 

It seems to have lost touch with its supporters, its MPs, and IMHO, I think it has also lost touch with reality.

Just history repeating itself. This is similar to Thatcher's completely misjudged attempt on a poll tax.

While I myself support the Rwanda solution, it's obviously not having enough support in the party.

 

I guess the best solution now is to divert all the illegals to the houses of those MPs that sank the Rwanda solution ( in the same way that GOP states have been bussing illegals to liberal states in the US ).

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

97, 98, 99. Change the Tory PM once again.

 

What has happened to the UK Conservative party in the last few years?

 

It seems to have lost touch with its supporters, its MPs, and IMHO, I think it has also lost touch with reality.

 

Spot on.

 

The current Tory Party is 'Life of Brian' made real: Judaean People's Front or People's Front of Judea?🤷

https://news.sky.com/story/battles-on-the-backbenches-what-are-the-different-factions-in-the-conservative-party-12964275

Here’s the best bit.

 

The Tories and Sunak in particular have chosen of their own volition to promise to deliver the Rwanda policy in the face of consistent advice that it won’t work and will brake both UK law and international laws the IK is bound by.

 

It’s a mess of their own making.

 

They could have focussed on something the general public are concerned about, the NHS, the housing crisis, the economy, education ….. nah, they chose the Albatross and strung it around their own necks.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s the best bit.

 

The Tories and Sunak in particular have chosen of their own volition to promise to deliver the Rwanda policy in the face of consistent advice that it won’t work and will brake both UK law and international laws the IK is bound by.

 

It’s a mess of their own making.

 

They could have focussed on something the general public are concerned about, the NHS, the housing crisis, the economy, education ….. nah, they chose the Albatross and strung it around their own necks.

 

 

A large percentage of the public are concerned about immigration.

 

They blame it for the problems with NHS, housing crisis, education and the economy.

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s the best bit.

 

The Tories and Sunak in particular have chosen of their own volition to promise to deliver the Rwanda policy in the face of consistent advice that it won’t work and will brake both UK law and international laws the IK is bound by.

 

It’s a mess of their own making.

 

They could have focussed on something the general public are concerned about, the NHS, the housing crisis, the economy, education ….. nah, they chose the Albatross and strung it around their own necks.

 

 

I think number 1 on the general publics mind is prices (electric, gas, council tax bills and food),   immigration is a close 2nd

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just history repeating itself. This is similar to Thatcher's completely misjudged attempt on a poll tax.

While I myself support the Rwanda solution, it's obviously not having enough support in the party.

 

I guess the best solution now is to divert all the illegals to the houses of those MPs that sank the Rwanda solution ( in the same way that GOP states have been bussing illegals to liberal states in the US ).

You are a kiwi with limited knowledge of British politics, but you still feel the need to post your BS everyday on as many threads as possible, even when those comments offer nothing constructive.

 

What we get is your closet racism, you try to disguise as an opinion. 

 

Your knowledge on everything is so limited, because you ignore everyone that disagrees with you, and what happens is that you are an empty echo chamber, only hearing yourself.

 

I pity you, as your lack the intellectual ability for critically thinking, hence leading you to blame everyone, but yourself, for your failings.

Some really great names on the rebel list! 55555

 

Every time you see Lee Anderson, Suella Braveman, John Redwood, Iain Duncan Smith and the two most out of touch clowns, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Liz Truss, you know it is going to appeal to a certain type of elector, the bigots, racist, poorly educated losers.

 

A rebellion on an amendment to disapply international law with regard to Rwanda being a safe country, trying to turn the UK into a banana republic and international embarrassment.

 

The full list if anyone is really interested.

 

Adam Afriyie - Windsor
Lee Anderson - Ashfield
Sarah Atherton - Wrexham
Sir Jake Berry - Rossendale and Darwen
Bob Blackman - Harrow East
Ben Bradley - Mansfield
Suella Braverman - Fareham
Jack Brereton - Stoke-on-Trent South
Paul Bristow - Peterborough
Sir Bill Cash - Stone
Miriam Cates - Penistone and Stocksbridge
Rehman Chishti - Gillingham and Rainham
Sir Christopher Chope - Christchurch
Sir Simon Clarke - Middlesborough South and East Cleveland
Brendan Clarke-Smith - Bassetlaw
Philip Davies - Shipley
Sarah Dines - Derbyshire Dales
Richard Drax - South Dorset
Sir James Duddridge - Rochford and Southend East
Sir Iain Duncan Smith - Chingford and Woodford Green
Michael Fabricant - Lichfield
Nick Fletcher - Don Valley
Kevin Foster - Torbay
Mark Francois - Rayleigh and Wickford
Chris Green - Bolton West
James Grundy - Leigh
Jonathan Gullis - Stoke-on-Trent North
Sir John Hayes - South Holland and the Deepings
Darren Henry - Broxtowe
Philip Hollobone - Kettering
Adam Holloway - Gravesham
Eddie Hughes - Walsall North
Tom Hunt - Ipswich
Robert Jenrick - Newark
Caroline Johnson - Sleaford and North Hykeham
David Jones - Clwyd West
Danny Kruger - Devizes
Andrew Lewer - Northampton South
Marco Longhi - Dudley North
Jonathan Lord - Woking
Craig Mackinlay - South Thanet
Karl McCartney - Lincoln
Robin Millar - Aberconwy
Anne Marie Morris - Newton Abbot
Jill Mortimer - Hartlepool
Wendy Morton - Aldridge-Brownhills
Lia Nici - Great Grimsby
Neil O'Brien - Harborough
Dr Matthew Offord - Hendon
Tom Randall - Gedling
John Redwood - Wokingham
Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg - North East Somerset
Laurence Robertson - Tewksbury
Gary Sambrook - Birmingham, Northfield
Greg Smith - Buckingham
Henry Smith - Crawley
Jane Stevenson - Wolverhampton North East
Sir Desmond Swayne - New Forest West
Liz Truss - South West Norfolk
Sir Bill Wiggin - North Herefordshire

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

A large percentage of the public are concerned about immigration.

 

They blame it for the problems with NHS, housing crisis, education and the economy.

Here’s what concerns the public in order of importance.

 

We know the extreme rightwing blame immigrants, true to type:

 

 ‘It’s always somebody else’s fault’. 

 

14 years of failing government is a far more rational explanation but it’s not one fed out by the rightwing media.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/publicopinionsandsocialtrendsgreatbritain/15to26november2023#:~:text=Main points,-Ahead of the&text=When asked about the important,as the top three issues.

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

I think number 1 on the general publics mind is prices (electric, gas, council tax bills and food),   immigration is a close 2nd

Refer link above.

37 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Some really great names on the rebel list! 55555

 

Every time you see Lee Anderson, Suella Braveman, John Redwood, Iain Duncan Smith and the two most out of touch clowns, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Liz Truss, you know it is going to appeal to a certain type of elector, the bigots, racist, poorly educated losers.

 

A rebellion on an amendment to disapply international law with regard to Rwanda being a safe country, trying to turn the UK into a banana republic and international embarrassment.

 

The full list if anyone is really interested.

 

Adam Afriyie - Windsor
Lee Anderson - Ashfield
Sarah Atherton - Wrexham
Sir Jake Berry - Rossendale and Darwen
Bob Blackman - Harrow East
Ben Bradley - Mansfield
Suella Braverman - Fareham
Jack Brereton - Stoke-on-Trent South
Paul Bristow - Peterborough
Sir Bill Cash - Stone
Miriam Cates - Penistone and Stocksbridge
Rehman Chishti - Gillingham and Rainham
Sir Christopher Chope - Christchurch
Sir Simon Clarke - Middlesborough South and East Cleveland
Brendan Clarke-Smith - Bassetlaw
Philip Davies - Shipley
Sarah Dines - Derbyshire Dales
Richard Drax - South Dorset
Sir James Duddridge - Rochford and Southend East
Sir Iain Duncan Smith - Chingford and Woodford Green
Michael Fabricant - Lichfield
Nick Fletcher - Don Valley
Kevin Foster - Torbay
Mark Francois - Rayleigh and Wickford
Chris Green - Bolton West
James Grundy - Leigh
Jonathan Gullis - Stoke-on-Trent North
Sir John Hayes - South Holland and the Deepings
Darren Henry - Broxtowe
Philip Hollobone - Kettering
Adam Holloway - Gravesham
Eddie Hughes - Walsall North
Tom Hunt - Ipswich
Robert Jenrick - Newark
Caroline Johnson - Sleaford and North Hykeham
David Jones - Clwyd West
Danny Kruger - Devizes
Andrew Lewer - Northampton South
Marco Longhi - Dudley North
Jonathan Lord - Woking
Craig Mackinlay - South Thanet
Karl McCartney - Lincoln
Robin Millar - Aberconwy
Anne Marie Morris - Newton Abbot
Jill Mortimer - Hartlepool
Wendy Morton - Aldridge-Brownhills
Lia Nici - Great Grimsby
Neil O'Brien - Harborough
Dr Matthew Offord - Hendon
Tom Randall - Gedling
John Redwood - Wokingham
Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg - North East Somerset
Laurence Robertson - Tewksbury
Gary Sambrook - Birmingham, Northfield
Greg Smith - Buckingham
Henry Smith - Crawley
Jane Stevenson - Wolverhampton North East
Sir Desmond Swayne - New Forest West
Liz Truss - South West Norfolk
Sir Bill Wiggin - North Herefordshire

To be fair, the internal Tory opposition vote is itself split between those in the moderate center of the party who know the Rwanda Bill breaks international law and won’t work and the rightwing extremists who don’t think it goes far enough.

 

The Tories are at war with themselves as the Government stares down the barrel of annihilation at the coming General Election. 

 

Here’s a curious circumstance:

 

The Tories know they are going to lose, they know replacing Sunak now isn’t going to win them the election. 
 

The fight is therefore over who is going to run the Tory Party in opposition.

 

A large Tory defeat plays into the hands of the rightwing extremists making it very much easier for them to take control of the party after the election while blaming moderates for the party’s losses.

 

Meanwhile, as Tories squabble, the nation flounders.

 

Same same for 14 straight years. 

 

 

8 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

A large percentage of the public are concerned about immigration.

 

They blame it for the problems with NHS, housing crisis, education and the economy.

 

The immigrant is a convenient scapegoat to blame for the country's failing. Always has been and, unfortunately, probably always will be.

Time for Sunak to go. The UK needs someone with true Conservative values to lead them, not some wishy washy fool who pretends to have them when it is convenient. 

 

There is no real Conservative option for people with moderately conservative values currently in the UK. The Tories have morphed into New Labour (minus the illegal warmongering obviously).

 

Get Rees Mogg or Farage into the top spot ASAP or face defeat to the loony left at the next election.

17 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Time for Sunak to go. The UK needs someone with true Conservative values to lead them, not some wishy washy fool who pretends to have them when it is convenient. 

 

There is no real Conservative option for people with moderately conservative values currently in the UK. The Tories have morphed into New Labour (minus the illegal warmongering obviously).

 

Get Rees Mogg or Farage into the top spot ASAP or face defeat to the loony left at the next election.

MUGA

Despite the best efforts of the ERG-backed Johnson administration to purge the Tory PP of traditional 'One Nation' MPs, it remains a sizeable faction. It will be interesting to see whether this group prevails over the more extreme right-wing groupings led by the likes of Braverman, Rees-Moog, etc. 

 

In any event, it is clear that the Conservative Party in its' current state is in no condition to lead the country, so imo the sooner the UK has an election and is rid of them the better.

4 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Some really great names on the rebel list! 55555

 

Every time you see Lee Anderson, Suella Braveman, John Redwood, Iain Duncan Smith and the two most out of touch clowns, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Liz Truss, you know it is going to appeal to a certain type of elector, the bigots, racist, poorly educated losers.

 

A rebellion on an amendment to disapply international law with regard to Rwanda being a safe country, trying to turn the UK into a banana republic and international embarrassment.

 

The full list if anyone is really interested.

 

Adam Afriyie - Windsor
Lee Anderson - Ashfield
Sarah Atherton - Wrexham
Sir Jake Berry - Rossendale and Darwen
Bob Blackman - Harrow East
Ben Bradley - Mansfield
Suella Braverman - Fareham
Jack Brereton - Stoke-on-Trent South
Paul Bristow - Peterborough
Sir Bill Cash - Stone
Miriam Cates - Penistone and Stocksbridge
Rehman Chishti - Gillingham and Rainham
Sir Christopher Chope - Christchurch
Sir Simon Clarke - Middlesborough South and East Cleveland
Brendan Clarke-Smith - Bassetlaw
Philip Davies - Shipley
Sarah Dines - Derbyshire Dales
Richard Drax - South Dorset
Sir James Duddridge - Rochford and Southend East
Sir Iain Duncan Smith - Chingford and Woodford Green
Michael Fabricant - Lichfield
Nick Fletcher - Don Valley
Kevin Foster - Torbay
Mark Francois - Rayleigh and Wickford
Chris Green - Bolton West
James Grundy - Leigh
Jonathan Gullis - Stoke-on-Trent North
Sir John Hayes - South Holland and the Deepings
Darren Henry - Broxtowe
Philip Hollobone - Kettering
Adam Holloway - Gravesham
Eddie Hughes - Walsall North
Tom Hunt - Ipswich
Robert Jenrick - Newark
Caroline Johnson - Sleaford and North Hykeham
David Jones - Clwyd West
Danny Kruger - Devizes
Andrew Lewer - Northampton South
Marco Longhi - Dudley North
Jonathan Lord - Woking
Craig Mackinlay - South Thanet
Karl McCartney - Lincoln
Robin Millar - Aberconwy
Anne Marie Morris - Newton Abbot
Jill Mortimer - Hartlepool
Wendy Morton - Aldridge-Brownhills
Lia Nici - Great Grimsby
Neil O'Brien - Harborough
Dr Matthew Offord - Hendon
Tom Randall - Gedling
John Redwood - Wokingham
Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg - North East Somerset
Laurence Robertson - Tewksbury
Gary Sambrook - Birmingham, Northfield
Greg Smith - Buckingham
Henry Smith - Crawley
Jane Stevenson - Wolverhampton North East
Sir Desmond Swayne - New Forest West
Liz Truss - South West Norfolk
Sir Bill Wiggin - North Herefordshire

 

Sir Bill Cash.

I checked.

That's a real name, a real person.

No wonder they're doing so bad.

29 minutes ago, RayC said:

In any event, it is clear that the Conservative Party in its' current state is in no condition to lead the country, so imo the sooner the UK has an election and is rid of them the better.

 

I'd agree - the Conservative party are far too weak under Sunak. They need a strong leader with real conservative values to lead them forward. If they have any sense they will remove Sunak and he can go join Labour or the Greens or someone who closer aligns with his lily livered nature.

 

The Tories can then appoint a leader from the ERG, or maybe Farage. Or maybe the Tories can dissolve completely and the MP's with real conservative values can join Reform UK and the weak ones can form "Newer Labour" or "Break UK" alongside Blair, Abbott, Corbyn and all the other political leftist loons/failures.

 

 

33 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

I'd agree - the Conservative party are far too weak under Sunak. They need a strong leader with real conservative values to lead them forward. If they have any sense they will remove Sunak and he can go join Labour or the Greens or someone who closer aligns with his lily livered nature.

 

The Tories can then appoint a leader from the ERG, or maybe Farage. Or maybe the Tories can dissolve completely and the MP's with real conservative values can join Reform UK and the weak ones can form "Newer Labour" or "Break UK" alongside Blair, Abbott, Corbyn and all the other political leftist loons/failures.

 

 

The Tories have already swung hard right, it’s not working out for them.

 

By all means go further right, it’s a losing formula, go for it.

 

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Tories have already swung hard right, it’s not working out for them.

 

Hard right? Are you joking? They are practically a left wing government (with a few right of centre rebels) at this point.

 

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

By all means go further right, it’s a losing formula, go for it.

 

 

There needs to be a real Conservative option for voters. If they do not win, fair enough - that's Democracy. But to not even offer the voters a party with true Conservative values is an affront to Democracy.

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Hard right? Are you joking? They are practically a left wing government (with a few right of centre rebels) at this point.

 

 

There needs to be a real Conservative option for voters. If they do not win, fair enough - that's Democracy. But to not even offer the voters a party with true Conservative values is an affront to Democracy.

Tories screaming about ditching human rights laws, placing Government above the law and scapegoating immigrants not ‘Conservative’ enough for you?

13 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

A large percentage of the public are concerned about immigration.

 

They blame it for the problems with NHS, housing crisis, education and the economy.

And they are most probably correct.

 

IMO the biggest problem is France as all the illegals have made their way from their home countries, into the "relative" safe haven of Europe. Many of them will travel further across Europe, ignoring the safe haven of the EU countries to the shores of France, where they get transported across the English Channel to the UK.

 

They believe that the streets of the UK are paved with gold and where they believe that they will be given everything that they need or desire.

 

I know it is not an easy question tp answer, but where do they get the rubber boats, engines, fuel, life jackets etc from? They obviously don't bring them from their home countries, so where do these things come from?

 

Presumably there is a big business supplying them, and whoever is selling them must be making a lot of money.

 

Obviously, smarter people than me must have worked out where the stuff comes from, so why have they not cracked down on the suppliers?

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

I'd agree - the Conservative party are far too weak under Sunak. They need a strong leader with real conservative values to lead them forward. If they have any sense they will remove Sunak and he can go join Labour or the Greens or someone who closer aligns with his lily livered nature.

 

The Tories can then appoint a leader from the ERG, or maybe Farage. Or maybe the Tories can dissolve completely and the MP's with real conservative values can join Reform UK and the weak ones can form "Newer Labour" or "Break UK" alongside Blair, Abbott, Corbyn and all the other political leftist loons/failures.

 

 

 

Ah, a return to days of Empire and good Tory governance. 

 

Only two problems with that with that theory: Britain no longer has an empire and Tory governance was rarely good.

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s what concerns the public in order of importance.

 

We know the extreme rightwing blame immigrants, true to type:

 

 ‘It’s always somebody else’s fault’. 

 

14 years of failing government is a far more rational explanation but it’s not one fed out by the rightwing media.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/publicopinionsandsocialtrendsgreatbritain/15to26november2023#:~:text=Main points,-Ahead of the&text=When asked about the important,as the top three issues.

If those concerned with immigration are all extreme right wing, Labour won't get a look in at the next general election. Tories will sweep the board. Reform UK will also have their best ever results.

8 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

You are a kiwi with limited knowledge of British politics, but you still feel the need to post your BS everyday on as many threads as possible, even when those comments offer nothing constructive.

 

What we get is your closet racism, you try to disguise as an opinion. 

 

Your knowledge on everything is so limited, because you ignore everyone that disagrees with you, and what happens is that you are an empty echo chamber, only hearing yourself.

 

I pity you, as your lack the intellectual ability for critically thinking, hence leading you to blame everyone, but yourself, for your failings.

However he has the same rights as you, I or anybody else to post on any topic that he wishes.

 

You have the same right to read his posts as everybody else. If you personally don't like his posts, you have the option of skipping over his posts thus ignoring him, putting him on your ignore list, or formally complaining to the moderators about his posts.

 

The easiest and simplest thing to do is put him on your ignore list.

 

I agree with a lot of his posts and disagree with a lot his other posts, probably about 50/50, and some that I disagree with I respond to and discuss.

 

What I try my best to avoid is insulting the poster.

 

It you personally don't like his posts, then don't read them.

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Despite the best efforts of the ERG-backed Johnson administration to purge the Tory PP of traditional 'One Nation' MPs, it remains a sizeable faction. It will be interesting to see whether this group prevails over the more extreme right-wing groupings led by the likes of Braverman, Rees-Moog, etc. 

 

In any event, it is clear that the Conservative Party in its' current state is in no condition to lead the country, so imo the sooner the UK has an election and is rid of them the better.

But which party should replace them and why?

12 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If those concerned with immigration are all extreme right wing, Labour won't get a look in at the next general election. Tories will sweep the board. Reform UK will also have their best ever results.

You are making the not uncommon mistake of grouping all concerns on a subject into the same pot.

 

One voter might simply be concerned about the number of immigrants.

 

Another might be concerned about where the immigrants are coming from.

 

Another, might be concerned about the costs related to immigration.

 

Another might be concerned about immigrants dying in the Channel.

 

The list goes on.

 

It’s very likely they all agree that the Government has failed to manage immigration. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are making the not uncommon mistake of grouping all concerns on a subject into the same pot.

 

One voter might simply be concerned about the number of immigrants.

 

Another might be concerned about where the immigrants are coming from.

 

Another, might be concerned about the costs related to immigration.

 

Another might be concerned about immigrants dying in the Channel.

 

The list goes on.

 

It’s very likely they all agree that the Government has failed to manage immigration. 

 

 

No. You did that.

 

You said extreme right wingers blame immigrants. You did not differentiate. Now that you are just proves a point.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are making the not uncommon mistake of grouping all concerns on a subject into the same pot.

 

Just like you do.

 

Legal Immigration

 

Illegal immigration

 

Quote

LONDON — “Stopping the boats” — Rishi Sunak’s bid to sharply reduce irregular migration routes — is now the second-biggest concern among 2019 Conservative voters, according to a new poll.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/stop-the-boats-now-second-biggest-concern-of-tory-voters-poll/

 

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Just like you do.

 

Legal Immigration

 

Illegal immigration

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/stop-the-boats-now-second-biggest-concern-of-tory-voters-poll/

 

So ‘the boats’ are the ‘second biggest concern’ of ‘Tory Voters’.

 

Elections are won by winning swing voters, and as you yourself point out, the boats are only the second biggest concern within the Tory base.

 

I expect it has dawned on even those normally reliable Tory voters that the Government has failed miserably on immigration.

 

 

Oh did I make any comment on legal/illegal immigration?